In U.S. fight over gay marriage, both...

In U.S. fight over gay marriage, both sides gearing up for more battles

There are 1144 comments on the Reuters story from Nov 28, 2012, titled In U.S. fight over gay marriage, both sides gearing up for more battles. In it, Reuters reports that:

Scott Everhart and Jason Welker hold each other before exchanging wedding vows at a comic book retail shop in Manhattan, New York June 20, 2012.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

au contraire

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#856 Dec 10, 2012
lides wrote:
<quoted text>It's an inept argument. Procreation is neither a prerequisite for, nor a requirement of legal marriage.
But legal marriage does cut down on the bastards like Obama. Sure sounds like it's procreation.
ontg

West Chicago, IL

#859 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
Religion made it a prerequisite for marriage. Personally I can't understand how or why govt is allowed to get involved with religion or marriage to begin with. So we indeed have a govt saying who can and CANNOT marry.
I posed that question earlier. The only governmental interest in a marriage is the minor children of such a relationship. Used to be society did not aprove of "bastard" children. Now with all the different types of families:single households, one-parent adoption, same sex households etc. and the fact the interests of children are protected by both civil and common law there is no longer the same governmental interest in marriage. It is time for government at all levels to get out of marriage and to also eliminate the benefits it grants married couples.
ontg

West Chicago, IL

#862 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
But are children really being protected in a ss household? Two men can never make a good mother regardless of what some marxist/communist left leaning moral web destroyer thinks, and they can't think past second base.
Thank you.
So the households led by widowed fathers or by fathers where the mothers have deserted the family are unfit households to raise families? Or for that matter an Ozzie and Hariett family where there is neglect, is it better than a loving Same sex household?

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#863 Dec 10, 2012
ontg wrote:
<quoted text>I posed that question earlier. The only governmental interest in a marriage is the minor children of such a relationship. Used to be society did not aprove of "bastard" children. Now with all the different types of families:single households, one-parent adoption, same sex households etc. and the fact the interests of children are protected by both civil and common law there is no longer the same governmental interest in marriage. It is time for government at all levels to get out of marriage and to also eliminate the benefits it grants married couples.
Sorry, but as long as money is involved.....the States and the Federal Government will NEVER get out of the Marriage Business.......nor should they........there is NOTHING wrong with treating all marriages equal regardless of the gender make-up!!!

“Alley Cat Blues”

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#864 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it is my communist loving race baiting traitor.
Since when? My 75 year old aunt married a man several years older than she and they don't plan on having children together. They were still issued a marriage license.
ontg

Aurora, IL

#868 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
Rationalizing!
In case you STILL haven't noticed you were brought into this world by a man and a woman. When placing ANY child into another home by way of adoption or the unfortunate process of DSS-DCF it is imperative to place such a child into a home with a male and female environment for some sort of 'stability and structure' Parenting is not a ovelty or experiment like Jozef Mengele did inNazi Germany you no good kinky marxist/communist/homofascist NAMBLA loving freak.
Only a liberal could allow such perversions to be projected unto society and blame or ridicule those that warned them of such detriments such as disease, drug abuse, violence, sexual discourse, unwanted pregnancies and so forth.
Rarely if ever does the word responsibility fall off the lips of any liberal polititian, if at all. In fact, its your right according to them while someone else pays. Healthcare.
I am not a liberal I am if anything a libertarian. You on the other hand appear to be nothing- you spew mindless drivel that others have taught you and have no real understanding of what you are saying and what you beleive.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#869 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
Rationalizing!
In case you STILL haven't noticed you were brought into this world by a man and a woman. When placing ANY child into another home by way of adoption or the unfortunate process of DSS-DCF it is imperative to place such a child into a home with a male and female environment for some sort of 'stability and structure' Parenting is not a ovelty or experiment like Jozef Mengele did inNazi Germany you no good kinky marxist/communist/homofascist NAMBLA loving freak.
Only a liberal could allow such perversions to be projected unto society and blame or ridicule those that warned them of such detriments such as disease, drug abuse, violence, sexual discourse, unwanted pregnancies and so forth.
Rarely if ever does the word responsibility fall off the lips of any liberal polititian, if at all. In fact, its your right according to them while someone else pays. Healthcare.
Nope, no evidence whatsoever that children raised by same-sex couples are at any disadvantage.

Try again.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#870 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
So by your rationale any man can marry as many women or vice versa. The govt IS taking a stance against the procreation process and family structure by providing extra space by two people of the same sex engaging in a unhealthy, degrading, defaming, dangerous, subversive, unnatural, perverted, and morally unsound act.
The govt should literally be involved in very little of anyones lives, especially the tax code. How the hell do you think we are at the day of reckoning.
Homosexuality is a health crisis that spread hiv into the heterosexual population. That is homosexualities greatest accomplishment the last 100 years along with Ernst Roehms' founding of the Nazi Party.
As long as they fight to decriminalized and then fight to legalize it.......sure!!!

How is love between two people defaming, degrading or unhealthy? if you are referring to HIV/AIDS......well, guess what......heterosexuals are just as much at risk as anyone else who practices unsafe sex......and it wasn't Gays who brought HIV/AIDS into the heterosexual community......I mean really, look at the spread of this deadly virus in China and Africa......are ya really going to blame the Gays? How about finding a cure instead of pointing the blame finger!!!

Why don't you take care of your house before passing judgment on mine!!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#873 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
So wrong in so many ways and quite frankly I'm sick and tired of repeating myself to zionist sluts.
Sorry, but only wrong to idiots like yourself!!!
The Lone Gunmen

United States

#874 Dec 10, 2012
Gay ‘marriage’ in high demand? Not according to the U.S. census

October 5, 2012 - The pressure to redefine marriage to include same-sex couples keeps increasing. The impression is given that thousands upon thousands of gays and lesbians are unable to do the one thing they want to do more than anything else: That is, have a wedding.

As if to prove the point, the US Census Bureau announced that it would be counting same-sex households in the 2010 Census. In August the Bureau announced that there are nearly a million. I was surprised by the small number.

But this past week, they reduced their estimate of same sex couple households by nearly thirty percent. In fact, it turns out that there are fewer than 650,000. That’s about six tenths of one percent of total US households.

But an even greater shocker for me was the number of same-sex married households. Gay marriage is legal in six jurisdictions. In Massachusetts, it’s been the law since 2004. Same-sex couples can get married, for example, in Massachusetts and Washington, DC, and live anywhere because nobody’s enforcing DOMA anymore in view of litigation. And yet there are only 131,729 households headed by married same-sex couples. That’s two-tenths of one percent of married households. Talk about the tail wagging the dog!

This census data exposes the two biggest myths created about gay marriage.

The first is that there’s a huge demand for it. No way! In fact, there’s hardly any demand at all. Gay couples are not lined up at city halls hoping for a marriage license.

The second myth is the so-called “marriage equity” argument: That this is just another civil rights movement. Are you going to tell me that it was possible to fuel the civil rights movement with 646,000 couples, when only 131,000 had a real stake in it? It’s laughable.

I have never believed that gays wanted to marry. Their behavior by its very nature is too promiscuous. Gay relationships are for the most part sexually open rather than exclusive.

For us to redefine marriage, thereby altering thousands of years of human history, ignoring all of the benefits marriage offers to individuals, cultures, civilizations and — above all — children, for the sake of 646,000 same-sex households, only 131,000 of which are married, is madness.

Gays and lesbians don’t want marriage; they want their sexual choices affirmed as normal and moral. And that’s what’s behind the blacklisting, boycotting, and suing anybody who even questions homosexuality. They don’t want anyone telling them that how they live is morally problematic. Gays are actively trying to destroy marriage and will take away our freedom of speech and religion in order to do it.

Does this take the church off the hook? No. For years we have helped deconstruct marriage, winking at cohabitation and allowing easy divorce. We’ve allowed politicians to pass bad divorce laws and to loosen the moral standards surrounding marriage. Now it’s all coming back to haunt us. But our job is to rebuild marriage as a sacred institution and to stand our ground and defend it, come what may, from what appears to be a tiny minority.
The Lone Gunmen

United States

#875 Dec 10, 2012
10 Reasons Why Homosexual “Marriage” is Harmful and Must be Opposed
By TFP Student Action
Share
1. It Is Not Marriage

Calling something marriage does not make it marriage. Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and wellbeing of the spouses.

The promoters of same-sex “marriage” propose something entirely different. They propose the union between two men or two women. This denies the self-evident biological, physiological, and psychological differences between men and women which find their complementarity in marriage. It also denies the specific primary purpose of marriage: the perpetuation of the human race and the raising of children.

Two entirely different things cannot be considered the same thing.

2. It Violates Natural Law

Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law.

Natural law’s most elementary precept is that “good is to be done and pursued, and evil is to be avoided.” By his natural reason, man can perceive what is morally good or bad for him. Thus, he can know the end or purpose of each of his acts and how it is morally wrong to transform the means that help him accomplish an act into the act’s purpose.

Any situation which institutionalizes the circumvention of the purpose of the sexual act violates natural law and the objective norm of morality.

Being rooted in human nature, natural law is universal and immutable. It applies to the entire human race, equally. It commands and forbids consistently, everywhere and always. Saint Paul taught in the Epistle to the Romans that the natural law is inscribed on the heart of every man.(Rom. 2:14-15)

3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother

It is in the child’s best interests that he be raised under the influence of his natural father and mother. This rule is confirmed by the evident difficulties faced by the many children who are orphans or are raised by a single parent, a relative, or a foster parent.

The unfortunate situation of these children will be the norm for all children of a same-sex “marriage.” A child of a same-sex “marriage” will always be deprived of either his natural mother or father. He will necessarily be raised by one party who has no blood relationship with him. He will always be deprived of either a mother or a father role model.

Same-sex “marriage” ignores a child’s best interests.

4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle

In the name of the “family,” same-sex “marriage” serves to validate not only such unions but the whole homosexual lifestyle in all its bisexual and transgender variants.

Civil laws are structuring principles of man's life in society. As such, they play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behavior. They externally shape the life of society, but also profoundly modify everyone’s perception and evaluation of forms of behavior.

Legal recognition of same-sex “marriage” would necessarily obscure certain basic moral values, devalue traditional marriage, and weaken public morality.

5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right

Homosexual activists argue that same-sex “marriage” is a civil rights issue similar to the struggle for racial equality in the 1960s.
The Lone Gunmen

United States

#876 Dec 10, 2012
This is false.

First of all, sexual behavior and race are essentially different realities. A man and a woman wanting to marry may be different in their characteristics: one may be black, the other white; one rich, the other poor; or one tall, the other short. None of these differences are insurmountable obstacles to marriage. The two individuals are still man and woman, and thus the requirements of nature are respected.

Same-sex “marriage” opposes nature. Two individuals of the same sex, regardless of their race, wealth, stature, erudition or fame, will never be able to marry because of an insurmountable biological impossibility.

Secondly, inherited and unchangeable racial traits cannot be compared with non-genetic and changeable behavior. There is simply no analogy between the interracial marriage of a man and a woman and the “marriage” between two individuals of the same sex.

6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Naturally Sterile Union

Traditional marriage is usually so fecund that those who would frustrate its end must do violence to nature to prevent the birth of children by using contraception. It naturally tends to create families.

On the contrary, same-sex “marriage” is intrinsically sterile. If the “spouses” want a child, they must circumvent nature by costly and artificial means or employ surrogates. The natural tendency of such a union is not to create families.
Therefore, we cannot call a same-sex union marriage and give it the benefits of true marriage.

7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage

One of the main reasons why the State bestows numerous benefits on marriage is that by its very nature and design, marriage provides the normal conditions for a stable, affectionate, and moral atmosphere that is beneficial to the upbringing of children—all fruit of the mutual affection of the parents. This aids in perpetuating the nation and strengthening society, an evident interest of the State.

Homosexual “marriage” does not provide such conditions. Its primary purpose, objectively speaking, is the personal gratification of two individuals whose union is sterile by nature. It is not entitled, therefore, to the protection the State extends to true marriage.

8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society

By legalizing same-sex “marriage,” the State becomes its official and active promoter. The State calls on public officials to officiate at the new civil ceremony, orders public schools to teach its acceptability to children, and punishes any state employee who expresses disapproval.

In the private sphere, objecting parents will see their children exposed more than ever to this new “morality,” businesses offering wedding services will be forced to provide them for same-sex unions, and rental property owners will have to agree to accept same-sex couples as tenants.

In every situation where marriage affects society, the State will expect Christians and all people of good will to betray their consciences by condoning, through silence or act, an attack on the natural order and Christian morality.
The Lone Gunmen

United States

#877 Dec 10, 2012
Not Exactly true!

``

So lets get this right, people who oppose this kind of behavior are bigots?

**
Child molester's dream come true

By Olivia St. John

Two recent government actions, one legislative and one judicial, have called into question our society's willingness to protect its youngest and most vulnerable members.

A hate crimes bill (H.R. 1913 and S. 909), dubbed by critics the "Pedophile Protection Act," has already passed the House and is up for vote in the Senate. The bill earned its unofficial name when Democrats rejected an amendment to exclude pedophiles from legal protection. No doubt this legislation serves as a precursor to onerous hate speech legislation in the future.

On the judicial front, the Georgia Supreme Court ruled in a divorce case that two minor children must be forced to mingle against their will with their homosexual father's "gay" and lesbian friends during visitation. Claiming the children of Eric and Sandy Mongerson will not suffer harm from this contact, Justice Robert Benham overturned an earlier lower court ruling protecting the children from exposure to "overnight company with a member of the opposite sex, or with any person deemed to be a paramour, unrelated by blood or marriage, in the presence of a child."

Beth Littrell, an attorney for the pro-homosexual group Lambda Legal, said, "The court has done the right thing today by focusing on the needs of the children instead of perpetuating stigma on the basis of sexual orientation."

An AP report said the mother's attorney, Lance McMillian, "claimed the father subjected the children to an 'array of violent, sexual, abusive and wholly inappropriate conduct' during a trip to Arkansas and contended the father was in a series of affairs with other men while still married."

During the trial the two oldest children expressed fear for the safety of their younger siblings due to their homosexual father's violent outbursts. One of the girls told of finding a magazine with naked men while visiting her father.

So much for "justice" and the assertion that children's needs are a priority.

Benham might have done his homework and discovered a plethora of reasons to block easy access to these children by the friends of their homosexual father. He could have started with the wealth of material found at the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality. Numerous scientific studies show soaring rates of violence within homosexual and lesbian relationships, shortened life spans caused by diseases influenced by their lifestyle, and a significantly higher rate of child molestation as compared with heterosexual populations.

But if Benham were truly concerned about the wellbeing of children being raised by homosexuals, he could talk to internationally recognized speaker Dawn Stefanowicz, who authored "Out From Under," a book relating her childhood experience living with a homosexual father who was sexually abused as a boy and later died of AIDS. In the book she describes her childhood exposure to her father's gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transsexual, or GLBT, subcultures and their explicit sexual practices. She recently addressed the Canadian Senate on hate crimes legislation. She focuses on the impact the homosexual culture is having on children, particularly relating to marriage, parenting, sexuality and education.

``
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, no evidence whatsoever that children raised by same-sex couples are at any disadvantage.
Try again.
The Lone Gunmen

United States

#878 Dec 10, 2012
(Column continues below)
In a recent correspondence, Stefanowicz shared her own experiences and her concerns drawn from discussions with other adults who were raised in homosexual households. The following aspects typify these children's experiences:
* Associating with the parent's GLBT community creates painful gender identity confusion and prevents healthy development.
* Children are "silenced and forced to tolerate hearing speech, witnessing sexual behaviors, and going places they find offensive."
* Children are saddled with "stress, depression, anxiety, suicidal tendencies, anger, sexuality confusion, and tremendous insecurity."
* During Stefanowicz's childhood, her father "traveled all over North America and to the Islands, finding ample cruising partners and locations." She said it was not safe "to bring my good-looking boyfriends" home because they could be propositioned by her father to have threesome sex with another homosexual adult.
* A number of children feel sexually abused though association with the sights of the GLBT subculture and "witnessing their parent in sexual situations and multiple relationships." She said it's common for parents to take children to gay pride events sporting offensive sexual material, discussion and behavior.
* Stefanowicz says, "Some adult children express they have been sexually abused by a parent or partner(s) who have attempted to recruit them either directly or by innuendo and by example. Pedophilia is a big part of the subcultures." Sadly, she recounts her father being sexually involved with an underage boy who later committed suicide.
* Stefanowicz has heard personal accounts from children who have contacted her. "They have been exposed to hepatitis and other pathogens because of living in close association with sexually active parents and partners. When young, dependent children share snacks, utensils, drinking glasses, use bathroom facilities and do not wash hands, touch washcloths … toothbrushes … children are at risk of becoming infected." She recounts picking up "feces-covered sheets" after one of her father's encounters and is concerned that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention acknowledges the high level of disease risk associated with GLBT behaviors, yet fails to discuss infection transmission risk to children in their care.
* Stefanowicz sees firsthand the effect of hate crime laws in Canada. Predicting what is ahead for America should such legislation pass, she says, "It is deeply saddening to see how many churchgoers/conservatives/Repu blicans are in favor of hate crime (laws). Americans have no idea what hate crime really is all about."
* Her concerns are backed up by statistics. A 2007 Gallup poll indicated a majority of Americans (68 percent) support expanding hate crimes laws. According to USA Today, "Majorities of frequent churchgoers (62 percent), conservatives (57 percent), and Republicans (60 percent) also were in favor of the legislation."
Continuing, Stefanowicz says, "Unfortunately, charities that speak against homosexuality will lose their charitable status and be fined. Media will also get shut down by the FCC if anything negative is said about homosexuality, and mention is made of the health risks, research on causes, and possibility of people leaving the lifestyle. "Gay" activists will go back into web archives and make complaints about offensive articles and links. Pastors will also be sued and church denominations could lose their tax exempt status."

Do hate crime laws really protect children? No. They protect adults perpetrating acts of indecency on minors.
Hate crime laws are a child molester's dream come true.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#879 Dec 10, 2012
The Lone Gunmen wrote:
There are still more Gay and Lesbian households even if the Census doesn't think so.....remember, some still are afraid to identify as such.

The other issue is this......IT DOESN'T MATTER if 1 Same-Sex Couple is legally married or 1 million Same-Sex Couples are married......what matters is that they have the same right to make that decision for themselves and that they have the right to marry the person of THEIR choosing regardless of gender!!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#880 Dec 10, 2012
The Lone Gunmen wrote:
Another idiot who can't understand that there is a difference between MOLESTING a child of the same gender and being a parent who happens to be Gay or Lesbian!!!

By the way copying and pasting without a source link is known as plagiarizing!!!
Ray

Newport, OR

#881 Dec 10, 2012
Marriage is not a right. Marriage only became a thing because communities recognized that unions between a man and a woman benefit society.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#882 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
Rationalizing!
In case you STILL haven't noticed you were brought into this world by a man and a woman. When placing ANY child into another home by way of adoption or the unfortunate process of DSS-DCF it is imperative to place such a child into a home with a male and female environment for .....
You start out making some sense but them devolve into silliness.

Certainly all gay folks were created by an egg and sperm, but, of course there is no real way to test the actual sexual orientation of the providers. It's simply logical to assume that most were straight.

The nice thing is that gay folks marrying will IN NO WAY prevent straight people from procreating and forming wonderful families.

And thank goodness for that.

However, allowing gay people to marry WILL be a boon for us, and for our kids as well, in the same way it is for everyone else.

Gay couples do a lovely job raising children, including those we create and those we adopt from the cast-offs of straight irresponsible procreation.

If you would prefer that all gay people marry only unsuspecting straight folks for the benefits, then say so. But I would think that even you would see the logic in gay people marrying each other instead.

And just remember, Dear, that the reason so many gay folks value marriage is because they learned to care at their straight parent's knee. The ONLY way to stop that from happening is to prevent all parents from promoting marriage and family life to ANY child.

I'd loove to see you try to promote that one.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#883 Dec 10, 2012
Ray wrote:
Marriage is not a right. Marriage only became a thing because communities recognized that unions between a man and a woman benefit society.
The SCOTUS has rule marriage to be a fundamental right.

State courts have ruled same-sex couples are entitled to that same fundamental right.

We win, you lose.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#887 Dec 10, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
What an absolutely pathetic excuse you are. You bastards claim you want equal rights and benefits but then you are gonna lie when asked by a census? What a stupid ass you are. LOL!
The only one that appears to be lying is you.....but we except that from trolls who have nothing better to do than to be here in a thread discussing the marital rights for Same-Sex Couples........it is you that is pathetic!!!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

US News Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Criminal Aliens Are Being Released in US Becaus... 2 min Synque 5
News Columbus veteran, ousted for sexual orientation... 2 min Big Johnson 11
News BARACK OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: Suit contesting... (Jan '09) 3 min Coffee Party 217,017
News West Virginia floods devastate 1,100 homes, man... 4 min Bert 16
News Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... (Oct '14) 4 min ChristineM 20,178
News Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 5 min Nos TROLL is Waxman 1,396,282
News Hillary Clinton wavers on Second Amendment righ... 7 min Chicagoan by Birth 1,268
Election 'Fox News Sunday' to Host Kentucky Senate Debate (Oct '10) 14 min HILLARY 2016 228,899
News The President has failed us (Jun '12) 36 min Coffee Party 388,368
News Boston Globe's front page: AR-15, 'Make It Stop' 1 hr spocko 540
More from around the web