It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103293 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#109943 Jul 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>I know Wal-mart does on their application because my neighbor's college kid went to apply for a summer job and told that is one thing they want to know and ask about on the application questionnaire if you are on welfare receiving food stamps so that tells me that Walmart targets and wants individuals that are using the Welfare Foodstamp Program which proves that Walmart is using to their advantage too because then they can pay lower wages and then at the same time in essence Wal Mart is recieving Federal Welfare Assistance help too in a sense from the Federal Government and dont have to call it Corporate Welfare.
Well, that's wrong then. It really isn't none of Walmart's business.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109944 Jul 7, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, that's wrong then. It really isn't none of Walmart's business.
I believe the Federal Government is behind it and if only if one would know Walmart is probably getting tax credits for hiring people on welfare & foodstamps besides benefiting by being able to pay lower wages.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109945 Jul 7, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
That is simply someones wingnuz opinion ... without the public schoolsystem we never have become the greatest and most efficient economy in the world. Without the great society the middle class would have collapsed ... If only the rightwingers would help correcting and improving upon the great society instead of outright rejecting it and inserting roadblocks every chance they get we would be doing just fine! It is becoming increasingly clear that we are living through a period of transition. One chapter of our national life is closing, and another is about to begin. We can sense this in the tense volatility of our electoral politics, as dramatic "change elections" follow closely upon one another. We can feel it in the unseemly mood of decline that has infected our public life — leaving our usually cheerful nation fretful about global competition and unsure if the next generation will be able to live as well as the present one. As the progressives are trying to move us forward and the conservatives are doing everything possible to move us back a half a century!
You dont see it but some of the rightwingers including some Democrats if that is what you want to call them have tried to help correct and improve the Great Society Failures by rejecting them that the Pseudo Liberals Democrats & Republicans have expanded like G.W. Bush who expanded the Great Society Program Medicare with Part D by 7 Trillions Dollars which was added to the Federal Deficit for the expansion of the Great Society Program Medicare which most of the Great Society programs added to the Federal Deficit and the purpose of the LBJ's Unified Budget besides the Public Education System is screwed up bad especially public education standards & requirements that are different from state to state, and its not simply someones wingnuz opinion especially about JD Rockefeller Sr and his ambitions just look into it, I did and an eye opener.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#109947 Jul 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>You dont see it but some of the rightwingers including some Democrats if that is what you want to call them have tried to help correct and improve the Great Society Failures by rejecting them that the Pseudo Liberals Democrats & Republicans have expanded like G.W. Bush who expanded the Great Society Program Medicare with Part D by 7 Trillions Dollars which was added to the Federal Deficit for the expansion of the Great Society Program Medicare which most of the Great Society programs added to the Federal Deficit and the purpose of the LBJ's Unified Budget besides the Public Education System is screwed up bad especially public education standards & requirements that are different from state to state, and its not simply someones wingnuz opinion especially about JD Rockefeller Sr and his ambitions just look into it, I did and an eye opener.
I seriously doubt that you have studied the subject, what you have done is read rightwing propaganda that suits your believes. The Great Society programs were designed to fight poverty, mostly in the southern states. It consisted of a series of legislation which included the Job Corps, to provide vocational training for disadvantaged youth; Volunteers in Service of America (VISTA)- a domestic Peace Corps; Head Start, to instruct disadvantaged preschoolers, among other programs. The other part of the Great Society program was the passage of civil rights legislation (proposed by the Kennedy Administration). The legislation included voting rights legislation that increased minority voting. In addition, the Civil Rights Law outlawed discrimination in all aspects of American society.
AnnAgain

Oakland, CA

#109948 Jul 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>You dont see it but some of the rightwingers including some Democrats if that is what you want to call them have tried to help correct and improve the Great Society Failures by rejecting them that the Pseudo Liberals Democrats & Republicans have expanded like G.W. Bush who expanded the Great Society Program Medicare with Part D by 7 Trillions Dollars which was added to the Federal Deficit for the expansion of the Great Society Program Medicare which most of the Great Society programs added to the Federal Deficit and the purpose of the LBJ's Unified Budget besides the Public Education System is screwed up bad especially public education standards & requirements that are different from state to state, and its not simply someones wingnuz opinion especially about JD Rockefeller Sr and his ambitions just look into it, I did and an eye opener.
FEARMONGERING NEVER CHANGES among the conservative ilk, GOPers "bitterly opposed" efforts to provide elderly Americans with access to health care. Ronald Reagan argued in 1961 that if Medicare wasn't stopped, "one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in America when men were free." George H. W. Bush called the plan "socialized medicine," and Barry Goldwater asked, "having given our pensioners their medical care in kind...why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink?" Today's rhetoric from opponents of health care reform -- particularly the public option -- is eerily similar to the fearmongering of Medicare. While Republican scare-tactics today contain a regular diet of "socialism" charges that are as annoying as a broken record. It is one thing to oppose and idea but it’s another when the opposition has no alternative plan or ideas.
Monk

Jakarta, Indonesia

#109949 Jul 7, 2013
Wow what a coincidence that two people from the same city posted on the same thread within 10 minutes of each other.

Would not be the same person would it ?
Would spocko be as lame and stupid as to do that ?

My guess would be yes.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109950 Jul 7, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
I seriously doubt that you have studied the subject, what you have done is read rightwing propaganda that suits your believes. The Great Society programs were designed to fight poverty, mostly in the southern states. It consisted of a series of legislation which included the Job Corps, to provide vocational training for disadvantaged youth; Volunteers in Service of America (VISTA)- a domestic Peace Corps; Head Start, to instruct disadvantaged preschoolers, among other programs. The other part of the Great Society program was the passage of civil rights legislation (proposed by the Kennedy Administration). The legislation included voting rights legislation that increased minority voting. In addition, the Civil Rights Law outlawed discrimination in all aspects of American society.
sure have besides how do you think I know about it and I know where J.D. Rockefeller Sr. started a school around here years ago and how they had to use Rockefeller's School text books only.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#109951 Jul 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>I believe the Federal Government is behind it and if only if one would know Walmart is probably getting tax credits for hiring people on welfare & foodstamps besides benefiting by being able to pay lower wages.
Government corporatism at its best.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109952 Jul 7, 2013
AnnAgain wrote:
<quoted text>
FEARMONGERING NEVER CHANGES among the conservative ilk, GOPers "bitterly opposed" efforts to provide elderly Americans with access to health care. Ronald Reagan argued in 1961 that if Medicare wasn't stopped, "one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in America when men were free." George H. W. Bush called the plan "socialized medicine," and Barry Goldwater asked, "having given our pensioners their medical care in kind...why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink?" Today's rhetoric from opponents of health care reform -- particularly the public option -- is eerily similar to the fearmongering of Medicare. While Republican scare-tactics today contain a regular diet of "socialism" charges that are as annoying as a broken record. It is one thing to oppose and idea but it’s another when the opposition has no alternative plan or ideas.
there is no denying that both factions are for Socialism they just have different views on what & how Socialism should look and function and FEARMONGERING NEVER CHANGES among the Pseudo Liberal Democart ilks too that is for sure by creating the need for Big Government which they have created with their Fear Mongering that people cant take care of themselves.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#109953 Jul 7, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
I seriously doubt that you have studied the subject, what you have done is read rightwing propaganda that suits your believes. The Great Society programs were designed to fight poverty, mostly in the southern states. It consisted of a series of legislation which included the Job Corps, to provide vocational training for disadvantaged youth; Volunteers in Service of America (VISTA)- a domestic Peace Corps; Head Start, to instruct disadvantaged preschoolers, among other programs. The other part of the Great Society program was the passage of civil rights legislation (proposed by the Kennedy Administration). The legislation included voting rights legislation that increased minority voting. In addition, the Civil Rights Law outlawed discrimination in all aspects of American society.
Good grief! The poverty rate is nearly the same as 1965, down a couple of points. The problem is low wages. The poverty rate went down in the sixties due to increased commerce, not programs. We manufactured things back then.

The civil rights legislation was separate from the Great Society programs. The democrats filibustered against it. The president who signed it fought against it as a senator. The people uprising shamed him into it.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#109955 Jul 7, 2013

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109956 Jul 7, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Government corporatism at its best.
the Humphrey–Hawkins Full Employment Act comes to mind.

Humphrey–Hawkins Full Employment Act

Overall, the Act sought to formalize (and to expand Congress's role in) the economic policy process, as governed by the Federal Reserve and the President.

the Full Employment and Balanced Growth Act. It was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on October 27, 1978, and codified as 15 USC § 3101. The Act explicitly instructs the nation to strive toward four ultimate goals: full employment, growth in production, price stability, and balance of trade and budget. By explicitly setting requirements and goals for the federal government to attain, the Act is markedly stronger than its predecessor.(An alternate view is that the 1946 Act concentrated on employment, and Humphrey-Hawkins, by specifying four competing and possibly inconsistent goals, de-emphasized full employment as the sole primary national economic goal.) In brief, the Act:

Explicitly states that the federal government will rely primarily on private enterprise to achieve the four goals.

Instructs the government to take reasonable means to balance the budget.

Instructs the government to establish a balance of trade, i.e., to avoid trade surpluses or deficits.

Mandates the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve to establish a monetary policy that maintains long-run growth, minimizes inflation, and promotes price stability.

Instructs the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve to transmit an Monetary Policy Report to the Congress twice a year outlining its monetary policy.

Requires the President to set numerical goals for the economy of the next fiscal year in the Economic Report of the President and to suggest policies that will achieve these goals.

Requires the Chairman of the Federal Reserve to connect the monetary policy with the Presidential economic policy.

The Act set specific numerical goals for the President to attain. By 1983, unemployment rates should be not more than 3% for persons aged 20 or over and not more than 4% for persons aged 16 or over, and inflation rates should not be over 4%. By 1988, inflation rates should be 0%. The Act allows Congress to revise these goals over time.

If private enterprise appears not to be meeting these goals, the Act expressly allows the government to create a "reservoir of public employment." These jobs are required to be in the lower ranges of skill and pay to minimize competition with the private sector.

The Act directly prohibits discrimination on account of gender, religion, race, age, and national origin in any program created under the Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Employment_...
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#109957 Jul 7, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>Yes it is very unfortunate that people are not smart enough to realize how their kids are being brainwashed into thinking that McD's crap is 'real food'!
It's called "free will". People know what McDonalds is and they know it is a long way from a perfectly balance diet but it is free will to eat what you want. It's like drinking, smoking, driving cars, playing sports, or just walking out of the house, everything has risk. That is the whole point of life. If all were caged in cells and their lives controlled, yes you may live longer but would you want to? I eat what I want, I drive motorcycles (real fast when I can get away with it), I smoke (a lot), I own a lot of guns, and yes I am of a rather advanced age. I have no urge to live long enough to waste away in a nursing home. At this point I am afraid I will. So yes I am very happy and lived a full life and enjoyed it. You can take your "want to control me (for my own good)" and shove it.
AnnAgain

Oakland, CA

#109958 Jul 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>there is no denying that both factions are for Socialism they just have different views on what & how Socialism should look and function and FEARMONGERING NEVER CHANGES among the Pseudo Liberal Democart ilks too that is for sure by creating the need for Big Government which they have created with their Fear Mongering that people cant take care of themselves.
Like I said: FEARMONGERING NEVER CHANGES among the conservatives you're no exception.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109959 Jul 7, 2013
AnnAgain wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said: FEARMONGERING NEVER CHANGES among the conservatives you're no exception.
Spocko you mean you're no exception and Pseudo Liberals are conservatives in their own way of thinking but are not there yet and why they call themselves progressives.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#109960 Jul 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>the Humphrey–Hawkins Full Employment Act comes to mind.
Humphrey–Hawkins Full Employment Act
Overall, the Act sought to formalize (and to expand Congress's role in) the economic policy process, as governed by the Federal Reserve and the President.
the Full Employment and Balanced Growth Act. It was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on October 27, 1978, and codified as 15 USC § 3101. The Act explicitly instructs the nation to strive toward four ultimate goals: full employment, growth in production, price stability, and balance of trade and budget. By explicitly setting requirements and goals for the federal government to attain, the Act is markedly stronger than its predecessor.(An alternate view is that the 1946 Act concentrated on employment, and Humphrey-Hawkins, by specifying four competing and possibly inconsistent goals, de-emphasized full employment as the sole primary national economic goal.) In brief, the Act:
Explicitly states that the federal government will rely primarily on private enterprise to achieve the four goals.
Instructs the government to take reasonable means to balance the budget.
Instructs the government to establish a balance of trade, i.e., to avoid trade surpluses or deficits.
Mandates the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve to establish a monetary policy that maintains long-run growth, minimizes inflation, and promotes price stability.
Instructs the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve to transmit an Monetary Policy Report to the Congress twice a year outlining its monetary policy.
Requires the President to set numerical goals for the economy of the next fiscal year in the Economic Report of the President and to suggest policies that will achieve these goals.
Requires the Chairman of the Federal Reserve to connect the monetary policy with the Presidential economic policy.
The Act set specific numerical goals for the President to attain. By 1983, unemployment rates should be not more than 3% for persons aged 20 or over and not more than 4% for persons aged 16 or over, and inflation rates should not be over 4%. By 1988, inflation rates should be 0%. The Act allows Congress to revise these goals over time.
If private enterprise appears not to be meeting these goals, the Act expressly allows the government to create a "reservoir of public employment." These jobs are required to be in the lower ranges of skill and pay to minimize competition with the private sector.
The Act directly prohibits discrimination on account of gender, religion, race, age, and national origin in any program created under the Act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Employment_...
Sounds like fascism to me. I like the reservoir of public employment if private enterprise doesn't meet goals. I don't think leftists know where money comes from. It must grow on trees, that's it, trees.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109961 Jul 7, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like fascism to me. I like the reservoir of public employment if private enterprise doesn't meet goals. I don't think leftists know where money comes from. It must grow on trees, that's it, trees.
I agree it does especially with what Benito Mussolini implemented in Italy.

Benito Mussolini

Creation of Fascism

An important factor in fascism gaining support in its earliest stages was the fact that it claimed to oppose discrimination based on social class and was strongly opposed to all forms of class war. Fascism instead supported nationalist sentiments such as a strong unity, regardless of class, in the hopes of raising Italy up to the levels of its great Roman past. The ideological basis for fascism came from a number of sources. Mussolini utilized works of Plato, Georges Sorel, Nietzsche, and the socialist and economic ideas of Vilfredo Pareto, to create fascism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini...
sid

Chermside, Australia

#109962 Jul 7, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> It's called "free will". People know what McDonalds is and they know it is a long way from a perfectly balance diet but it is free will to eat what you want. It's like drinking, smoking, driving cars, playing sports, or just walking out of the house, everything has risk. That is the whole point of life. If all were caged in cells and their lives controlled, yes you may live longer but would you want to? I eat what I want, I drive motorcycles (real fast when I can get away with it), I smoke (a lot), I own a lot of guns, and yes I am of a rather advanced age. I have no urge to live long enough to waste away in a nursing home. At this point I am afraid I will. So yes I am very happy and lived a full life and enjoyed it. You can take your "want to control me (for my own good)" and shove it.
I see so many parallels between AUS and USA it's not funny, corporate take over of fast food is actually destroying the health of the nation in the name of profit. We are our brothers keeper and for the same reason that heroin, cocaine, meths, prescription drugs are not openly sold for public consumption is the same reason fast food outlets selling substandard food must be regulated because self regulation is anathema to big business.
There is an epidemic of obese kids in a AUS and apparently our government don't see it within their mandate to stop the poisoning of our kids. Kids, teenagers can't be controlled 24/7 so what they are eating as alleged food must be controlled for their own good. Of course we have free will and freedom of choice but by the time a kid has reached teenage years they have been subject to thousands of hours of false advertising promoting high fat, high salt, high calorie, low nutrition food as good food when it is demonstrably not.
So for so called freedom do we say eat what you like and suffer the consequences latter or do we stand up to corporate greed and tell then, no we do not accept this garbage you are poisoning our kids with for your mega profits.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#109963 Jul 7, 2013
sid wrote:
<quoted text>
I see so many parallels between AUS and USA it's not funny, corporate take over of fast food is actually destroying the health of the nation in the name of profit. We are our brothers keeper and for the same reason that heroin, cocaine, meths, prescription drugs are not openly sold for public consumption is the same reason fast food outlets selling substandard food must be regulated because self regulation is anathema to big business.
There is an epidemic of obese kids in a AUS and apparently our government don't see it within their mandate to stop the poisoning of our kids. Kids, teenagers can't be controlled 24/7 so what they are eating as alleged food must be controlled for their own good. Of course we have free will and freedom of choice but by the time a kid has reached teenage years they have been subject to thousands of hours of false advertising promoting high fat, high salt, high calorie, low nutrition food as good food when it is demonstrably not.
So for so called freedom do we say eat what you like and suffer the consequences latter or do we stand up to corporate greed and tell then, no we do not accept this garbage you are poisoning our kids with for your mega profits.
No one holds a gun to your head and makes you eat anything or buy anything. It is free will. The freedom of choice (yes to even do things that are bad for you). Corporations all start out as small businesses they succeed by provide goods or services the public wants. The people vote what they want by where they spend their money thus McDonalds grew by pubic vote. Don't worry none lasts forever. One day some other person will provide a better service or goods and the public will move on. WalMart succeeded Sears and JC Penny among others who were dominant at one time. Toyota unseated GM, China is providing more and more goods that U.S. companies have become over blotted to provide at the same price so they are failing. Evolution does not just apply to plants and animals.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#109964 Jul 7, 2013
sid wrote:
<quoted text>
I see so many parallels between AUS and USA it's not funny, corporate take over of fast food is actually destroying the health of the nation in the name of profit. We are our brothers keeper and for the same reason that heroin, cocaine, meths, prescription drugs are not openly sold for public consumption is the same reason fast food outlets selling substandard food must be regulated because self regulation is anathema to big business.
There is an epidemic of obese kids in a AUS and apparently our government don't see it within their mandate to stop the poisoning of our kids. Kids, teenagers can't be controlled 24/7 so what they are eating as alleged food must be controlled for their own good. Of course we have free will and freedom of choice but by the time a kid has reached teenage years they have been subject to thousands of hours of false advertising promoting high fat, high salt, high calorie, low nutrition food as good food when it is demonstrably not.
So for so called freedom do we say eat what you like and suffer the consequences latter or do we stand up to corporate greed and tell then, no we do not accept this garbage you are poisoning our kids with for your mega profits.
But no one ASKED you to be their keeper. Why do you think you know more what's best for me than I do? I don't want to be controlled "for my own good". I am very aware the things I do and dangers involved. Would you like me to force my standards on you? You don't like corporate greed? Don't buy their goods, see how simple that is.

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