It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103321 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

spider

Cambridge, UK

#109814 Jun 30, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL ... I understand that, but mostly you exercise your right to be an f-ing idiot ... can one illegally exercise once rights?
Yes, yes you can when the law is unjust wrong, throughout history the law has often been unjust and wrong.
spider

Cambridge, UK

#109815 Jun 30, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
What are you trying to say here Spider?
If you as an individual wish for a change in your circumstances, who will you turn to, who is responsible for you, should anybody be responsible for you.
SockPuppetGunSid e

Thailand

#109817 Jul 1, 2013
OK, you wim!

It is the guns
spocko

Oakland, CA

#109818 Jul 1, 2013
spider wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, yes you can when the law is unjust wrong, throughout history the law has often been unjust and wrong.
May be so, but we are here-and-now ...
spocko

Oakland, CA

#109819 Jul 1, 2013
The flat tax fallacy.
Someone with $20 million in taxable income pays nearly $7 million in taxes under the current rate structure, with its 35% top rate. Keeping in mind, virtually no one pays taxes at the top rate.(Mitt Romney or Bill Gates or Warren Buffet are at 13 to 17 %). Replace that with a 9% tax (where in the world did I get that idea?:) and it's below $1.8 million.
Now let’s see what happens down the income scale, it depends fundamentally on the size of the exemption. Take a married couple with two children and a modest $50,000 gross income. Their taxable income (after the standard deduction and personal exemptions) is $23,600, leading to an income tax bill of about $2,700. Under a 10% flat tax with no exemption it would leave that family owing the tax collector a whopping $5,000. You get the idea!? The harebrained “numbers game” perpetrated by the right-wing morons that the rich pay more taxes is absolute hogwash; the rich have a huge stake in the game not to mention the undue influence in Washington.
Advocates of the flat tax, or of regressive tax, often argue that it's unfair that 47% of American households pay no federal income tax at all. But is it really unfair? These alleged "freeloaders" don't get off the taxpaying hook at all; they pay payroll taxes, sales taxes and many other local taxes. The income tax and the estate tax are the only two progressive elements in our tax system. If you take away progressivity precious little remains. So the next time you hear the wingnuz charge of "class warfare," ask yourself which class is waging war on which—and which class is winning!!
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#109820 Jul 1, 2013
spocko wrote:
The flat tax fallacy.
Someone with $20 million in taxable income pays nearly $7 million in taxes under the current rate structure, with its 35% top rate. Keeping in mind, virtually no one pays taxes at the top rate.(Mitt Romney or Bill Gates or Warren Buffet are at 13 to 17 %). Replace that with a 9% tax (where in the world did I get that idea?:) and it's below $1.8 million.
Now let’s see what happens down the income scale, it depends fundamentally on the size of the exemption. Take a married couple with two children and a modest $50,000 gross income. Their taxable income (after the standard deduction and personal exemptions) is $23,600, leading to an income tax bill of about $2,700. Under a 10% flat tax with no exemption it would leave that family owing the tax collector a whopping $5,000. You get the idea!? The harebrained “numbers game” perpetrated by the right-wing morons that the rich pay more taxes is absolute hogwash; the rich have a huge stake in the game not to mention the undue influence in Washington.
Advocates of the flat tax, or of regressive tax, often argue that it's unfair that 47% of American households pay no federal income tax at all. But is it really unfair? These alleged "freeloaders" don't get off the taxpaying hook at all; they pay payroll taxes, sales taxes and many other local taxes. The income tax and the estate tax are the only two progressive elements in our tax system. If you take away progressivity precious little remains. So the next time you hear the wingnuz charge of "class warfare," ask yourself which class is waging war on which—and which class is winning!!
Most flat tax plans are tiered. Germany has a two tiered, upper and lower income, plan with a different flat tax rate for each tier. The plan doesn't even have to kick in until a certain income is reached.

You shouldn't be reading left "wingnuz" misinformation. I suppose you want to continue to let the rich claim gambling losses on their taxes.
spider

Cambridge, UK

#109821 Jul 1, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
May be so, but we are here-and-now ...
Indeed we are. Tell me, are you trying to make a point here ??
spocko

Oakland, CA

#109822 Jul 1, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Most flat tax plans are tiered. Germany has a two tiered, upper and lower income, plan with a different flat tax rate for each tier. The plan doesn't even have to kick in until a certain income is reached.
You shouldn't be reading left "wingnuz" misinformation. I suppose you want to continue to let the rich claim gambling losses on their taxes.
Again you do not have the foggiest clue what you’re talking about repeating some stupid nonsense you probably heard on one of the insanely stupid wingnuz radio-blabber shows. Germany’s flat rate tax is on private income from capital and capital gains. The tax rate is 25% plus 5.5% solidarity surcharge. The tax is known as the capital yields tax. The corporate tax is charged at the corporate level at a flat 15%. all services and products generated in Germany by a business entity are subject to value-added tax (VAT) at 19%. So much for your simple flat tax in Germany – ye hapless moronic idiot!
There are, however, a number of Eastern Europe countries that adapted a flat tax system 10 years ago and they are all abandoning it, as it created unsustainable inequities among taxpayers.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#109823 Jul 1, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Again you do not have the foggiest clue what you’re talking about repeating some stupid nonsense you probably heard on one of the insanely stupid wingnuz radio-blabber shows. Germany’s flat rate tax is on private income from capital and capital gains. The tax rate is 25% plus 5.5% solidarity surcharge. The tax is known as the capital yields tax. The corporate tax is charged at the corporate level at a flat 15%. all services and products generated in Germany by a business entity are subject to value-added tax (VAT) at 19%. So much for your simple flat tax in Germany – ye hapless moronic idiot!
There are, however, a number of Eastern Europe countries that adapted a flat tax system 10 years ago and they are all abandoning it, as it created unsustainable inequities among taxpayers.
You started out with income tax. Now you're into corporate and capital gains tax.

The lower incomes start out at 18%, I believe, and graduate to 42%. The higher incomes pay a 45% rate. Everyone pays that solidarity tax.

If you'll ever make a point, the key word is a [flat] rate. In your blabbering, you didn't mention deductions. Those are things the rich people in government write in for themselves.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#109824 Jul 1, 2013
The gun lobby is taxing the American economy at around 5 Billion dollars a year in sales.

The number of violent gunnuts that have to be locked up each year you are looking at 1 million x $30,000. Plus the same amount for their dependants on welfare.

The cops and lawyers suck up another 10 billion.

Then the medical fees for 100,000 firearm injuries and fatalities is even more staggering.

A fiscally responsible political party would regulate the guns out of existance or tax the bloody things into oblivian similar to ciggarrettes.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#109825 Jul 1, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
The gun lobby is taxing the American economy at around 5 Billion dollars a year in sales.
The number of violent gunnuts that have to be locked up each year you are looking at 1 million x $30,000. Plus the same amount for their dependants on welfare.
The cops and lawyers suck up another 10 billion.
Then the medical fees for 100,000 firearm injuries and fatalities is even more staggering.
A fiscally responsible political party would regulate the guns out of existance or tax the bloody things into oblivian similar to ciggarrettes.
There are a number of states in the process of increasing the sales tax on guns or certain types of guns.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109826 Jul 1, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
The gun lobby is taxing the American economy at around 5 Billion dollars a year in sales.
The number of violent gunnuts that have to be locked up each year you are looking at 1 million x $30,000. Plus the same amount for their dependants on welfare.
The cops and lawyers suck up another 10 billion.
Then the medical fees for 100,000 firearm injuries and fatalities is even more staggering.
A fiscally responsible political party would regulate the guns out of existance or tax the bloody things into oblivian similar to ciggarrettes.
You mean the Federal Government is taxing the American economy in gun sales besides it depends on the classification of the type of weapon you are talking about too which is another tax collected by the Federal Government which generates revenue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearm...
GoGoBar

Thailand

#109827 Jul 1, 2013
Blah, Blah ,Blah.
Get rid of the fcikin things.

The Tobacco Lobby argued for years that ciggarrettes never caused any harm to the people. They even used to advertise that Alpine was "Like a breath of freash air"

Well, the Marlborough Man died of lung cancer and the gun toting Yul Brynner gasped "Just dont smoke" before expiry.

Chris Kyle (Americas most deadly gunnut) died at a Texas gun range at the hands of another nut.

The only alternative is to take the prisons to the people because the US just cant afford to deprive the liberty of any more citizens.

Perhaps the US could wall off the Ghettos like in Warsaw.

(This Rant is copyright protected and no portion shall be used or quoted under First Ammendment regulations applicable in all states)

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109828 Jul 1, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
Blah, Blah ,Blah.
Get rid of the fcikin things.
The Tobacco Lobby argued for years that ciggarrettes never caused any harm to the people. They even used to advertise that Alpine was "Like a breath of freash air"
Well, the Marlborough Man died of lung cancer and the gun toting Yul Brynner gasped "Just dont smoke" before expiry.
Chris Kyle (Americas most deadly gunnut) died at a Texas gun range at the hands of another nut.
The only alternative is to take the prisons to the people because the US just cant afford to deprive the liberty of any more citizens.
Perhaps the US could wall off the Ghettos like in Warsaw.
(This Rant is copyright protected and no portion shall be used or quoted under First Ammendment regulations applicable in all states)
you mean get rid of the fcikin Idiots that misuses them because like I told you before a gun will set there and do nothing until someone picks it up and goes to use it.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#109829 Jul 1, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>You mean the Federal Government is taxing the American economy in gun sales besides it depends on the classification of the type of weapon you are talking about too which is another tax collected by the Federal Government which generates revenue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearm...
No that is some bs that you are touting.
The exact reaction an internet baby would google, that baby being vey tired from ignoring time zones around the world.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#109830 Jul 1, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>you mean get rid of the fcikin Idiots that misuses them because like I told you before a gun will set there and do nothing until someone picks it up and goes to use it.
Well now, here we are in agreement.

Just what proposals did you suggest to "Get rid of the fcikin idiots"

I must have missed your practical proposal.

Just what was your plan?
GoGoBar

Thailand

#109831 Jul 1, 2013
LOL

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109832 Jul 1, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
Well now, here we are in agreement.
Just what proposals did you suggest to "Get rid of the fcikin idiots"
I must have missed your practical proposal.
Just what was your plan?
it wouldnt adhere to law put that way.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#109833 Jul 1, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
No that is some bs that you are touting.
The exact reaction an internet baby would google, that baby being vey tired from ignoring time zones around the world.
that is no BS the US Federal Government is collects taxes on gun purchases like the neighbors WW2 Water Cooled Machine gun that he own which the tax is hefty to own it and to continue to own it.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#109834 Jul 1, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>that is no BS the US Federal Government is collects taxes on gun purchases like the neighbors WW2 Water Cooled Machine gun that he own which the tax is hefty to own it and to continue to own it.
;D

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