It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Truthdig

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Comments
100,101 - 100,120 of 103,229 Comments Last updated 6 hrs ago

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107401 May 13, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
By your logic the modern corporate media is representing freedom of speech for the American individual.
The first and second ammendment have been hijacked by wealthy corporations.
Without one shot being fired.
You havent even sold your rights.
You are paying them to steal them.
Which is why we can now spread our free speech around the globe in SECONDS. Rather than in days, weeks, or months, right? And that EVERY individual that has access to a computer. Can share their thoughts however twisted they might be,(such as in your case), in a flash. And, if interesting enough, their comment or whatever, can go viral. And reach MILLIONS of people all around the world.
Just like the SHOT that was heard around the world. RIGHT?

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107402 May 13, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
The way I see it....
Perhaps you'd "see" better if we threw some light on the subject?

In 2011, the latest figure available from the Centers for Disease Control,

Accidental discharge 851
Suicide 19,766
Homicide 11,101
Undetermined Intent 222

Deducting firearms used for suicide = 12174 (Because they would have used other means if firearms had been unavailable).

Deducting 74% because of gang related homicides = 1218 (Because criminals don't submit to 'background checks', and will always get their weapons illegally).

So, when REALITY is factored in, around 2291 people die per year from firearms.

And then there's THIS little interesting FACT:

Released: May 7, 2013
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
Pace of Decline Slows in Past Decade
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun...

During that same period, gun ownership had SKYROCKETED. PROVING once and for all: MORE GUNS = LESS CRIME.

How many people die because of other violent means? 2011 FBI Data:

Knives or cutting instruments 1,694
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 496
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) 728

And as far as origins go; a projectile, is still just a projectile (sung to the theme of a Kiss is Just a Kiss).

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107403 May 13, 2013
Good wrote:
<quoted text>
lord - what an idiot!
That's what we've been trying to tell >you< all along. But you keep coming back and proving yourself to be over and over again. Thus making Albert Einstein's observation a FACT in >your< case:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

Now go climb back up in your tree, you little feces-flinging monkey. Maybe your 'daddy' will give you a banana.
GoGoBar

Chachoengsao, Thailand

#107404 May 13, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you'd "see" better if we threw some light on the subject?
In 2011, the latest figure available from the Centers for Disease Control,
Accidental discharge 851
Suicide 19,766
Homicide 11,101
Undetermined Intent 222
Deducting firearms used for suicide = 12174 (Because they would have used other means if firearms had been unavailable).
Deducting 74% because of gang related homicides = 1218 (Because criminals don't submit to 'background checks', and will always get their weapons illegally).
So, when REALITY is factored in, around 2291 people die per year from firearms.
And then there's THIS little interesting FACT:
Released: May 7, 2013
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
Pace of Decline Slows in Past Decade
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun...
During that same period, gun ownership had SKYROCKETED. PROVING once and for all: MORE GUNS = LESS CRIME.
How many people die because of other violent means? 2011 FBI Data:
Knives or cutting instruments 1,694
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 496
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) 728
And as far as origins go; a projectile, is still just a projectile (sung to the theme of a Kiss is Just a Kiss).
HAHAHAHAHAHJA

Post that again so we can be sure you dont want to change your name again.

2291 murdered with firearms.

Less than countries with no firearms i n relative terms?

Not even Highlander was that dumb. Well, yes he was. He tried to argue that rates per 100k were variable with the size of the population.

Do the same magic with the suicides. LOLOLOLOL>

You are worse.
GoGoBar

Chachoengsao, Thailand

#107405 May 13, 2013
12996 Total Murders

225 Justifiablw Homicides nwith Firearms

LOL
spocko

Oakland, CA

#107406 May 13, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times did you practice that in the mirror?
Newsflash, traitor-troll. Our side,(REALITY), has been winning for over twelve years now. Your 'master' and his fellow minions. Know that the demonRats will be thrust out in the cold if they attempt more 'gun control'. Just like they did after the tyranny of billy-bob klintoon. Only this time, the demonRats might just freeze to death. And NEVER reenter into the warmth of the public spotlight.
When you dream, you dream big, eh traitor-troll? Now, WAKE UP!
The country's reality is 32,000 dead and twice as many injured by gun fire all in the name of you irrational gunloons ...
spocko

Oakland, CA

#107407 May 13, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Which is why we can now spread our free speech around the globe in SECONDS. Rather than in days, weeks, or months, right? And that EVERY individual that has access to a computer. Can share their thoughts however twisted they might be,(such as in your case), in a flash. And, if interesting enough, their comment or whatever, can go viral. And reach MILLIONS of people all around the world.
Just like the SHOT that was heard around the world. RIGHT?
It is also the reason why everyone around the world knows that you retarded gunloons are willing to sacrifice thousands of innocent people year after year at your alter of death and misery by gun fire ...

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107408 May 13, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
It is also the reason why everyone around the world knows that you retarded gunloons are willing to sacrifice thousands of innocent people year after year at your alter of death and misery by gun fire ...
LIE-beral 'gun control' DEATH TOLL:

Those who say "it can't happen here" are totally oblivious to historical FACT;

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1932-33 Soviet Dictator Joseph Stalin's 'government' sponsered famine, causing the deaths of 7 to 10 million in the Ukraine.

1937-38 Japanese soldiers 'Rape' Nanking province of China, causing the deaths of 300,000.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 6 million Jews and countless others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.(Some estimates bring the total closer to 13 million

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Pol Pot's Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, over 2,000,000 people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated by the Khmer Rouge.

1992-95 Bosnia-Herzegovina conflict; 200,000 dead.

1994 Rwanda, Hutu militia kill 800,000 Tutsis.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of 'gun control' or from the lack of being able to defend themselves: about 64,700,000

Spelled out, that is;

SIXTY-FOUR MILLION,

SEVEN-HUNDRED

THOUSAND PEOPLE!

There are some reports, that the total number Murdered, is actuallly MUCH HIGHER!

See:'Innocents Betrayed' on the J.P.F.O. website....

(170,000,000)

Ah thanks, but I think I'll keep my guns....
http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com/index2.htm

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107409 May 13, 2013
R-12 Freon wrote:
<quoted text>
If the stryker streetsweeper (25 rd semi-auto shotgun)(class3) is considered a destructive device, I'm pretty sure a rocket launcher falls in there somewhere. Ahhh you are talking about a functional rocket launcher right?
Yes it is legal to own one that's "inert" and you go through a intensive background check to have that,,'privileged right'.
And You Should and Do and if you meet the criteria You Should.
LOL, you make it sound that anybody who wants one can get it and that's just dumb.
just apply and yes anyone can if you got the money to buy it and clear a background check and you just got make you own shell which you can buy the kits to make them one website I was reading.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107410 May 13, 2013
R-12 Freon wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL, yeah but it really wouldn't matter if they were legal or not, being The Government has all of them and you ain't gunna get(a real one)
Now it's become your 20rd autoloader, legal under the 2nd has a S.C.J hinting that Rocket Launchers Also fall under those same rules.
It's rediculous. Either the public support is so great that American Citizens want rocket launchers along with their rifles and pistols or there's a big enough problem with them that something needs to be done about it. Both answers would be no.
What other purpose would connecting the two have?
I can't think of 1 criminal act involving any gun that doesn't have a 'Law' prohibiting it. The law only applies to those who follow it.
The ruling should be enough laws already exist but have to be better enforced.
A good one to start with is Border Security, maybe the Supreme Court will rule on that, the same time they decide whether I can own a 20rd mag or not because I Don't have a criminal record.
go to ATF's website & look you will be amazed what people legal to own besides I had people on Topix here tell me you cant own a Machine Gun and I told them they were full of sh!t because my neighbor own and possess a full functional World War 2 water cooled Machine Gun and has all the Federal Paper from ATF to own & possess it.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107411 May 13, 2013
Good wrote:
<quoted text>
lord - what an idiot!
Scalia is not an Idiot at all and is right to say that.

Scalia:‘Handheld rocket launchers’ could be constitutional
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on Sunday said that even “handheld rocket launchers” could be considered legal under his interpretation of the Constitution’s Second Amendment.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/29/scalia-...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107412 May 13, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
You gunloons are doing your tiny base’s bidding, not America’s. No matter how many times, or how long you keep doing this, eventually you will have to accept that it is “your” reality – not the country’s!
you sound just like the Democrats in 1994 who lost their ass's in the Nov 1994 election because of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban and 2014 is going to be a repeat of the 1994 democrat losses besides today Harry Reid announced that the Leninist(Anti Gun)within the Democratic Party are going to have to settle for rules restricting the mentally ill and criminals from purchasing guns which is already covered in the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Following failed efforts to expand background checks for gun purchases, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Monday that advocates for stricter gun laws will "settle" for rules restricting the mentally ill and criminals from purchasing guns.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57584256/...
Naw

Santa Fe, NM

#107413 May 13, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Scalia is not an Idiot at all and is right to say that.
Scalia:‘Handheld rocket launchers’ could be constitutional
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on Sunday said that even “handheld rocket launchers” could be considered legal under his interpretation of the Constitution’s Second Amendment.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/29/scalia-...
he is making it up as he goes along.
FormerParatroope r

Chicago, IL

#107414 May 13, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be your lack of intelligence for opposing a law simply through the fear of losing your gun rights when you fail to realise they are not at risk, but your ignorance like many is stifling progress and makes you look staid, stale and backwood...when most other civilised countries are moving to use guns strictly for sport and hunting. It is like how a lot of third world countries appear on womens rights...and god know you have some areas to work on, even there.
You got me wrong. I know exactly what is going on.

To blame me and others like me for the violence of others is not only wrong, but ignorant. I have committed no crime, yet I am expected to be treated worse than a sex offender. It is moral to oppose any law that treats the innocent as if they are guilty.

Women's rights, no one gender has more rights than the other. In the US, rights seem subjective by what political party a women belongs too. Liberal women are treated well by most, and conservative or right leaning women are attacked by the left vehemently. Does that happen in Australia as well?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107415 May 13, 2013
Naw wrote:
<quoted text>
he is making it up as he goes along.
so is Dianne Feinstein and all the other Democrats that align with her Gun Control Ideology just like what Harry Reid announced today what Dianne Feinstein and the other Radicals are going to have to settle for what is already Federal Law to begin with.

Following failed efforts to expand background checks for gun purchases, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Monday that advocates for stricter gun laws will "settle" for rules restricting the mentally ill and criminals from purchasing guns.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57584256/...

Gun Control Act of 1968

Prohibited persons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107416 May 13, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times did you practice that in the mirror?
Newsflash, traitor-troll. Our side,(REALITY), has been winning for over twelve years now. Your 'master' and his fellow minions. Know that the demonRats will be thrust out in the cold if they attempt more 'gun control'. Just like they did after the tyranny of billy-bob klintoon. Only this time, the demonRats might just freeze to death. And NEVER reenter into the warmth of the public spotlight.
When you dream, you dream big, eh traitor-troll? Now, WAKE UP!
How are you winning, you call another 19 people shot, winning....you are indeed a gun owning lunatic.....
spocko

Oakland, CA

#107417 May 13, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>you sound just like the Democrats in 1994 who lost their ass's in the Nov 1994 election because of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban and 2014 is going to be a repeat of the 1994 democrat losses besides today Harry Reid announced that the Leninist(Anti Gun)within the Democratic Party are going to have to settle for rules restricting the mentally ill and criminals from purchasing guns which is already covered in the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Following failed efforts to expand background checks for gun purchases, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Monday that advocates for stricter gun laws will "settle" for rules restricting the mentally ill and criminals from purchasing guns.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57584256/...
Oh really now, makes me wonder why law-enforcement leaders support strengthening gun purchase background checks and mental health systems? Although, sheriffs and police chiefs support the assault weapons ban, they understand the political reality in Congress that the ban is likely to have a hard time winning broad support. "We're very supportive of the assault weapons ban. A spokesman for the IACP said: "I think everybody understands that may be a real tough battle to win. And one of the things that we understand is that we can't look at it like we have to get all of these things or we haven't won."

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107418 May 13, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh really now, makes me wonder why law-enforcement leaders support strengthening gun purchase background checks and mental health systems? Although, sheriffs and police chiefs support the assault weapons ban, they understand the political reality in Congress that the ban is likely to have a hard time winning broad support. "We're very supportive of the assault weapons ban. A spokesman for the IACP said: "I think everybody understands that may be a real tough battle to win. And one of the things that we understand is that we can't look at it like we have to get all of these things or we haven't won."
Gun Control Act of 1968

Prohibited persons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_...

W.Va. sheriffs say they wouldn't enforce assault weapons ban

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201301300155

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107419 May 13, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh really now, makes me wonder why law-enforcement leaders support strengthening gun purchase background checks and mental health systems? Although, sheriffs and police chiefs support the assault weapons ban, they understand the political reality in Congress that the ban is likely to have a hard time winning broad support. "We're very supportive of the assault weapons ban. A spokesman for the IACP said: "I think everybody understands that may be a real tough battle to win. And one of the things that we understand is that we can't look at it like we have to get all of these things or we haven't won."
even Riverside County California Sheriff Stan Sniff is opposed to a federal ban on assault rifles because it would infringe on constitutional rights and do more harm than good.

He described the AR-15 rifle targeted by the ban as “a modern American ‘musket’” capable of multiple uses.

RIVERSIDE COUNTY: Sheriff opposes assault weapons ban

http://www.pe.com/local-news/politics/jeff-ho...

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107420 May 13, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh really now,
Yes, really:

"87. Right of Self-defence.(a)

"There are some injuries which, once committed, cannot be adequately redressed. The taking of life is an extreme case of this kind. Against the commission of such injuries, therefore, every person should not only have the protection of government, when practicable, but should also have a right to defend himself. The right of self-defence would of course exist in a state of nature, and the social compact does not take it away; but the right of avenging an injury already committed is taken away. This is a fundamental distinction. You may prevent an injury from being done, by all proper means; but when done, you may not take redress in your own hands. The social compact provides a tribunal to which you are bound to resort; and abundant provision is made for securing the redress to which you may be entitled. Thus the right of self-defence and the right of redress are two distinct things; but both are equally guaranteed by the constitution. We have already seen that "the enjoying and defending life and liberty," is declared to be an inalienable right. Also, "that the people have a right to bear arms for their defence and security." (b) In England, this right is qualified by the condition, that the arms must be suitable to the condition and degree of the bearer; but here, there is no qualification."

(a) See 2 Story, Const. 1896; 1 Black. Com. 148.[A party may use reasonable force to defend the possession of his property, but he cannot use force against the person in regaining or obtaining the possession of property to which he is entitled. 3 Black. Com. 4, 179; Sampson v. Henry, 11 Pick. 387; 1 Bishop, Crim. Law, 397; 1 Hilliard on Torts, ch. v. ss 12, pp 196, 197.]
(b)[This provision is not infringed by a statute prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons. State v. Jumel, 13 La. An. 399.]

- Timothy Walker, LL.D,[INTRODUCTION TO AMERICAN LAW. DESIGNED AS A FIRST BOOK FOR STUDENTS. BY TIMOTHY WALKER LL.D. LATE PROFESSOR OF LAW IN THE CINCINATTI COLLEGE. FIFTH EDITION, REVISED BY J. BRYANT WALKER, OF THE CINCINNATI BAR. BOSTON: LITTLE, BROWN, AND COMPANY 1869.]

It is self-evident that the right to arms is corollary to the Right to Self-Defense. Which of course is a natural right that can NEVER be surrendered, even after entering into society. It is a retained right that NO person can be deprived of by ANY law of man. Thus making the RESTRICTIVE clause found in the 2nd amendment; "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed" abundantly clear in meaning.

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