It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103292 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

spocko

Oakland, CA

#104659 Apr 15, 2013
DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
But in REALITY there is only ONE True God. And it is in Him that I put my trust.
Sure buddy ... whatever you say

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104660 Apr 15, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Even when a majority is brainwashed into thinking "it's in your best interest" does not change the name of it. If the majority believes slavery is OK, is it? The government is there to represent not only the majority but to protect the minority from the majority. Even to the point of it being a single citizen. At one point in history the majority believed what they were told, that witches lived among us and caused our daily problems. The majority then (believing what they were told and it being a lie) started burning "witches". People look for excuses to their problems in others. People tend to want to blame someone or some group for all the problems they have. In reality it does not work to infringe on anothers rights in the name of "it's in the public's best interest". Stop the witch hunts and use reality instead of mass hysteria.
I can honestly say that Australians have never had an interest in owning guns en mass, it is not and never has been of particular interest to the overwhelming majority, and not part of our lifestyle.....it has always been accepted that certain areas used them for their lively hood but it has never been a right to own a gun here for self defense. In short no brainwashing was ever employed, The Port Arthur massacre did shake us awake to the need for gun control, we should give a medal to our government who responded quickly and decisively to the overwhelming outrage and anger "by it's citizens" who demanded something to be done to prevent such a useless loss of life ever occurring again, via polls and the media and we have been secure in believing that we acted on the best interest of the innocents who's lives were lost that day...so you call us cowards, you call us brainwashed, you call us sheep.... but we know we were right then and it saved lives...around 200 a year....maybe that is a help to the families of those who uselessly died that day, that we never became so desensitized that we failed to recognise the need for prevention.
Tray

Plantersville, MS

#104661 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
I can honestly say that Australians have never had an interest in owning guns en mass, it is not and never has been of particular interest to the overwhelming majority, and not part of our lifestyle.....it has always been accepted that certain areas used them for their lively hood but it has never been a right to own a gun here for self defense. In short no brainwashing was ever employed, The Port Arthur massacre did shake us awake to the need for gun control, we should give a medal to our government who responded quickly and decisively to the overwhelming outrage and anger "by it's citizens" who demanded something to be done to prevent such a useless loss of life ever occurring again, via polls and the media and we have been secure in believing that we acted on the best interest of the innocents who's lives were lost that day...so you call us cowards, you call us brainwashed, you call us sheep.... but we know we were right then and it saved lives...around 200 a year....maybe that is a help to the families of those who uselessly died that day, that we never became so desensitized that we failed to recognise the need for prevention.
Same exact words used during the witch hunts. Nice to here rational thought from you without the personal attacks. I do see the idea is good but it does have side effects. All I say is there are other options that have yet to be explored without making the public sitting ducks for any person or group wishing to do harm or oppress the people. Crime and people harming each other goes way back in history before guns or even weapons of any type. To think a cure is simply the removal of one tool will not solve the problem. That is simplistic thinking. Reducing just one human harmful action just to create 4x as much elsewhere is not an answer. We must go much deeper than that. The most dangerous weapon on Earth is the human mind. Untill we can address that then everything else is just a bandaid on a heart attack. Education,the entertainment industry, society and the glorification of acts of violence make the problem worse, we must address these. We must teach more morals and personal responsibility to the new generations. In the end we are just animals and there is always going to be the genetic material in place for violence. It is the nature of the beast.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104662 Apr 15, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Same exact words used during the witch hunts. Nice to here rational thought from you without the personal attacks. I do see the idea is good but it does have side effects. All I say is there are other options that have yet to be explored without making the public sitting ducks for any person or group wishing to do harm or oppress the people. Crime and people harming each other goes way back in history before guns or even weapons of any type. To think a cure is simply the removal of one tool will not solve the problem. That is simplistic thinking. Reducing just one human harmful action just to create 4x as much elsewhere is not an answer. We must go much deeper than that. The most dangerous weapon on Earth is the human mind. Untill we can address that then everything else is just a bandaid on a heart attack. Education,the entertainment industry, society and the glorification of acts of violence make the problem worse, we must address these. We must teach more morals and personal responsibility to the new generations. In the end we are just animals and there is always going to be the genetic material in place for violence. It is the nature of the beast.
This is not about moral responsibility as a great number of these people are mentally ill, depressed etc, anyone can have a mental illness from a military man, police officer, husband, father etc....a gun in the hands of anyone is a risk because everyone is at risk...and BTW the witch trials was engineered by good hearted law abiding religious folk......

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104663 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not about moral responsibility as a great number of these people are mentally ill, depressed etc, anyone can have a mental illness from a military man, police officer, husband, father etc....a gun in the hands of anyone is a risk because everyone is at risk...and BTW the witch trials was engineered by good hearted law abiding religious folk......
Christopher Dorner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorn...
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#104664 Apr 15, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Christopher Dorner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorn...
Another one just today.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dead-appar...

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104665 Apr 15, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Christopher Dorner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorn...
Your point if you have one, because what I get from that if such a man can go postal....what about the other 45-50% who have guns, just a thought.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104666 Apr 15, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Another one just today.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dead-appar...
have you ever noticed that most of this BS happens in areas of the Country that are mostly or predominantly Liberal in the modern sense of what it means to be liberal.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104667 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Your point if you have one, because what I get from that if such a man can go postal....what about the other 45-50% who have guns, just a thought.
that is my point I would rather trust myself than trust the cops for protection and only law enforcement having weapons which would be like a police state.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104668 Apr 15, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> It's pretty hard to support your case when you reduce one crime but multiply another 4x by that reasoning. Violent crime went up 4x in your country after gun control. Burning the witches didn't work.
Firstly the argument is over gun control not general crime and if you bother to check we list all crimes relevant against a victim where America does not...ie rape in Australia ...includes children, homosexual and hetrosexual, it also include all sexual assaults without penetration etc...America does not! So you show your ignorance against all industrial countries with a higher crime than America because they like us follow the system of crime gathering. We also list gun crimes whereby a person committed it in self defence as a crime....You don't!

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104669 Apr 15, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>that is my point I would rather trust myself than trust the cops for protection and only law enforcement having weapons which would be like a police state.
Then maybe you should look up those like yourself that have gone postal with a gun....I believe there are quite a few of you, who were sane one minute or long enough to get a gun or many guns, then at some point down the line, lost the plot and low and behold had a gun or many guns at the ready to kill their spouse their neighbors their friends or other people kids....Tryt ti see it from more than a one eyed point of view and you start to become almost human.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#104670 Apr 15, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>that is my point I would rather trust myself than trust the cops for protection and only law enforcement having weapons which would be like a police state.
The gun control logic is we should disarm the police because a couple of them went berserk.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104671 Apr 15, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Chill and put another shrimp on barbie ...
He is not an Australian....he is a scumbag paid Topix troll that could be posting from anywhere in the world and does and uses many names with which to incite his audience...ie I am an Australian stiring the pot, so he becomes an Australian to aggravate and annoy..... so he is more likely an American Topix worker because of the past files and posts he accesses to use against the intended victim...on this thread it is anyone opposing the pro gun nutters.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104672 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Then maybe you should look up those like yourself that have gone postal with a gun....I believe there are quite a few of you, who were sane one minute or long enough to get a gun or many guns, then at some point down the line, lost the plot and low and behold had a gun or many guns at the ready to kill their spouse their neighbors their friends or other people kids....Tryt ti see it from more than a one eyed point of view and you start to become almost human.
Never went postal not like yourself your logic proves that.

Crime Rate Increases with Australia's gun Ban

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104673 Apr 15, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
The gun control logic is we should disarm the police because a couple of them went berserk.
exactly.
Tray

Plantersville, MS

#104674 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not about moral responsibility as a great number of these people are mentally ill, depressed etc, anyone can have a mental illness from a military man, police officer, husband, father etc....a gun in the hands of anyone is a risk because everyone is at risk...and BTW the witch trials was engineered by good hearted law abiding religious folk......
Who were told by their leaders "it was in the public's best interest to kill witches", an excuse to get rid of free thinkers. It was not witches that caused them to do bad things but DNA. "Mental" is another excuse. Humans are animals and like animals most are capable of horrific actions. Most who go postal are looking to go out in a blaze and want publicity for their actions. Stop giving it to them. Moral responsibility is making each responsible for their own actions without excuses. 30 days in the nut house and then back on the street time after time is not going to cut it anymore. Most of these killers had a mental history, it should be a place to start not a place to hide. Mental records are considered "medical records" therefore private. many of these "nuts" just start a "mental record" in order to get away with their crime later. "The Devil made me do it. See a shrink then you can get away with anything you want, "he's sick" "it's not his fault". Bull crap. Yes you are right, religion has killed more than guns ever could. Wars, ethnic cleansing, the crusades, the inquisition ect. ect.
Boston Marathon Tragedy

New Brunswick, NJ

#104675 Apr 15, 2013
Everyone please help reach my campaign goal. Help support our Boston Marathon runner's 3 people dead 141 wounded 8 seriously wounded in critical condition.

www.facebook.com/BostonMarathonTragedySupport Click share like donate anything.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104676 Apr 15, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
The gun control logic is we should disarm the police because a couple of them went berserk.
Noooooo, it is saying that none of you are safe from each other when you have access to weapons that can kill en mass, and the facts are that cops and the military have more experience in dealing with the enemy so when and if the few do go postal, they do it better and more proficiently than the average because of their familiarity with their weapons and jungle warfare...stands to reason, often the other nutters are just lucky.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#104677 Apr 15, 2013
DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, & ItÂ’s NOT Weapons
Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.
The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-sh...
I agree.

As a contrast, in Mexico, many mass murders are for CRIMINAL and\or terrorist reasons, i.e. connected with the drug trade or for political means. The people who commit these mass murders are not insane.

But in the U.S., these mass murders seem to be commited only by insane people. Which makes them far more difficult, or actually impossible to prevent. If these people didn't use guns, they would use a knife, or knives, as one recent lunatic did, or IED's mae from commonly available household chemicals, and shrapnel bought at the local Home Depot.

And if someone REALLY wnats to kill a particular person, you really cannot do anything at all to stop it.

My you live in interesting times.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104679 Apr 15, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Who were told by their leaders "it was in the public's best interest to kill witches", an excuse to get rid of free thinkers. It was not witches that caused them to do bad things but DNA. "Mental" is another excuse. Humans are animals and like animals most are capable of horrific actions. Most who go postal are looking to go out in a blaze and want publicity for their actions. Stop giving it to them. Moral responsibility is making each responsible for their own actions without excuses. 30 days in the nut house and then back on the street time after time is not going to cut it anymore. Most of these killers had a mental history, it should be a place to start not a place to hide. Mental records are considered "medical records" therefore private. many of these "nuts" just start a "mental record" in order to get away with their crime later. "The Devil made me do it. See a shrink then you can get away with anything you want, "he's sick" "it's not his fault". Bull crap. Yes you are right, religion has killed more than guns ever could. Wars, ethnic cleansing, the crusades, the inquisition ect. ect.
The witch trials were the result of religious fanaticism and leaders of the church not your countries leaders...and the brainwashing that occurred was because good people never against what was happening....they same occurred over the war in Iraq, the few good voices were shouted out by lies and false evidence....the same with the pro gun lobby who use the second amendment as a way to fear gun owners into believing their government will stomp all over them if they don't support everything they put out there....it is ludicrous to think that grown people fall for such idealistic bullshit especially today where knowledge abounds...but there are those even though proof has shown the war on Iraq was based on lies, misinformation and false evidence given by spies that the CIA knew to be lying and unreliable, that still, yes I say still, believe that Hussein still has weapons of mass destruction hidden somewhere, you Yanks just haven't found them yet.....how is that for brainwashing?

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