It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 Full story: Truthdig 103,368

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Full Story

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#104248 Apr 12, 2013
Colorado Chick wrote:
Usually ONE shot WILL show them..YOU MEAN BUSINESS!!
Ammo is too expensive. I won't be firing a warning shot, no matter what Biden suggests.

Since: Jan 11

Mount Holly, NJ

#104249 Apr 12, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they're not.
Harry Reid is a mealy mouthed kiss ass. Always has been, always will be.
The Parties are vastly different in thought, voice and deed.
They are different in that one will take your social freedoms away and the other will take your economic freedoms away. The point was they both take away and both expand the scope and power of the federal government.

We agree on one thing. Reid is a mealy mouthed kiss ass.

Since: Jan 12

Vine Grove, KY

#104250 Apr 12, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
What utter BULLSHIT! What "tough gun laws" are you referring to. We have laws to PUNISH bad behavior, so elimination of all laws is a stupid strawman argument. Passing further legislation that will only be followed by the law-abiding will do NOTHING to stop these maniacs. Even the politicians discussing the bills now have admitted that no new laws could have prevented Sandy Hook. Restricting the law abiding in order to control criminals is like making it harder for sober people to buy cars in order to prevent drunk driving. IT. WON'T. WORK! And now matter how hard you stomp your feet, it will never be true.
<quoted text>
Another BULLSHIT argument. No one here is calling to limit your 1st Amendment rights. You are free to be as wrong as you want. I don't care.
<quoted text>
Rights should only be limited to when the infringe on the rights of another. As the saying goes....your right to swing your fists ends at the end of my nose. You have no right to violate the sovereignty of Boehner's living room or office. You can, however, occupy the public sidewalk in front of his home or office until the cows come home (as long as you are not impeding the public throroughfare and violating others' rights). My gun rights are no different than this. A gun on my hip while I am walking down the street IN NO WAY violates your or anyone else's rights. NONE! Your right to "feel" safe does not trump my right to carry an effective weapon for my own safety. And until I have used that weapon to threaten another (which will never happen), I have broken no laws or violated anyone's rights. Just because you ASSUME the weapon on my hip is a threat to you (that is called hoplophobia), that doesn't mean the threat actually exists. It is all about a little thing called "intent".
<quoted text>
I Am also an armed veteran, and I can't begin to tell you how RIGHT you are. Last year there were over 75,000 people/criminals who attempted to purchase a weapon ( of any kind ) and only 45 were prosecuted. It's far easier for the Government to try to regulate what honest, law abiding citizens do, and charge them for it. After all, We must continue our support of (LOL) Taxation without representation. Honestly, Where will our elected officials continue to get they money to sustain their never ending pay raise schedule??
It is really hard to believe that people out there think that dis-arming good citizens will curb these attacks on UN-ARMED citizens. GOD BLESS YOU BROTHER! and stay safe

Since: Feb 13

United States

#104251 Apr 12, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
They are different in that one will take your social freedoms away and the other will take your economic freedoms away. The point was they both take away and both expand the scope and power of the federal government.
We agree on one thing. Reid is a mealy mouthed kiss ass.
Sup guy? I went today and got my concealed weapons permit. My state just passed the law anyone over 18 can get a concealed weapons permit as long as they arent a felon, that law doesnt take effect until july 1st, but Im 23 so it doesnt effect me.
Two major weapons manfufactures have shown a great interest in leaveing thier gun-hostile states and moveing here, hope they do, we need the jobs.
Also, a lot of gun manufactors are ceaseing to sell to state agencies tht are non gun friendly, lol. Looks like alot of police departments may now have to buy their weapons from foreign companies.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#104252 Apr 12, 2013
richard177211 wrote:
<quoted text>I Am also an armed veteran, and I can't begin to tell you how RIGHT you are. Last year there were over 75,000 people/criminals who attempted to purchase a weapon ( of any kind ) and only 45 were prosecuted. It's far easier for the Government to try to regulate what honest, law abiding citizens do, and charge them for it. After all, We must continue our support of (LOL) Taxation without representation. Honestly, Where will our elected officials continue to get they money to sustain their never ending pay raise schedule??
It is really hard to believe that people out there think that dis-arming good citizens will curb these attacks on UN-ARMED citizens. GOD BLESS YOU BROTHER! and stay safe
And you as well.{hat-tip}
sid

Brisbane, Australia

#104253 Apr 12, 2013
You people are wilfully insane, 9 out 10 americans own guns, that mean 9 out of 10 americans have the opportunity to resort to using a gun to resolve conflict or dispute with a gun rather than by non lethal means , what sort of society have you created where in the heat of the moment 9 out of 10 people have the ability to kill or wound each other so efficiently. You are not seeing what's in front of your face, 9 out of 10 of you live in such fear that you feel the need to own such an efficient killing device, and don't give me the baseball bat and screwdriver bullshit. How is it that countries like japan manage to do very well with virtually zero gun ownership.
You are pretty quick to tell me that america is the greatest democracy on earth and pretty good at shoving that down the rest of the worlds throat yet you are all shit scared your government is going to kill you, what sort of democracy do you have or is it a tyranny you live under. Land of the free and home of the brave my arse, land of the enslaved and home of the shit scared more like it. You are afraid of everyone and everything that's why you need to arm yourselves, if it's not the government or terrorists or gangs it's anyone else, because they have the means of killing you quick and easy just as you have the same ability, so everyone is afraid of everyone. If you were so free and brave you wouldn't need a gun to back up your bravado.

Since: Feb 13

United States

#104254 Apr 12, 2013
sid wrote:
You people are wilfully insane, 9 out 10 americans own guns, that mean 9 out of 10 americans have the opportunity to resort to using a gun to resolve conflict or dispute with a gun rather than by non lethal means , what sort of society have you created where in the heat of the moment 9 out of 10 people have the ability to kill or wound each other so efficiently. You are not seeing what's in front of your face, 9 out of 10 of you live in such fear that you feel the need to own such an efficient killing device, and don't give me the baseball bat and screwdriver bullshit. How is it that countries like japan manage to do very well with virtually zero gun ownership.
You are pretty quick to tell me that america is the greatest democracy on earth and pretty good at shoving that down the rest of the worlds throat yet you are all shit scared your government is going to kill you, what sort of democracy do you have or is it a tyranny you live under. Land of the free and home of the brave my arse, land of the enslaved and home of the shit scared more like it. You are afraid of everyone and everything that's why you need to arm yourselves, if it's not the government or terrorists or gangs it's anyone else, because they have the means of killing you quick and easy just as you have the same ability, so everyone is afraid of everyone. If you were so free and brave you wouldn't need a gun to back up your bravado.
This shows how little you understand americans. We dont trust ANY government fully, whether it be ours, or yours. And history has shown that people in govt seek power and more power, it doenst matter what type of govt it is.
Also, guns, like it or not, is our culture. I do believe your indians, right? If so, they you, of all people, should know the dangers of people trying to exterminate your culture simply bc they do not understand.
No one is afraid of anyone, it depends on where you live.
When i go to the grocery store I dont lock my car doors, sometimes I leave it running. My house doors are always unlocked. America is not the killing fields that media would have you to believe, you only hear of the bad stuff, there are thousands and thousands of good things occuring everyday in america.
You, are guilty of the same things alot of people here do to Indians, you are judgeing an entire country on the actions of a few.
I dont know anything about indians constitution, but stop to think for a minute, would you defend your constitutional rights that you hold dear from a few liberals that think by takeing away your rights and your culture would solve a problem? When in reality you know it wouldnt solve a thing, only disarm the victim, keep the criminals armed, and victim defensless.
And are you so naive to think that this govt or any govt would stop at a certain point. They would keep on till guns were 'totally' banned, then guess what, that opens the door for them to start on doing away with other freedoms.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#104255 Apr 12, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
What utter BULLSHIT! What "tough gun laws" are you referring to. We have laws to PUNISH bad behavior, so elimination of all laws is a stupid strawman argument. Passing further legislation that will only be followed by the law-abiding will do NOTHING to stop these maniacs. Even the politicians discussing the bills now have admitted that no new laws could have prevented Sandy Hook. Restricting the law abiding in order to control criminals is like making it harder for sober people to buy cars in order to prevent drunk driving. IT. WON'T. WORK! And now matter how hard you stomp your feet, it will never be true.
<quoted text>
Another BULLSHIT argument. No one here is calling to limit your 1st Amendment rights. You are free to be as wrong as you want. I don't care.
<quoted text>
Rights should only be limited to when the infringe on the rights of another. As the saying goes....your right to swing your fists ends at the end of my nose. You have no right to violate the sovereignty of Boehner's living room or office. You can, however, occupy the public sidewalk in front of his home or office until the cows come home (as long as you are not impeding the public throroughfare and violating others' rights). My gun rights are no different than this. A gun on my hip while I am walking down the street IN NO WAY violates your or anyone else's rights. NONE! Your right to "feel" safe does not trump my right to carry an effective weapon for my own safety. And until I have used that weapon to threaten another (which will never happen), I have broken no laws or violated anyone's rights. Just because you ASSUME the weapon on my hip is a threat to you (that is called hoplophobia), that doesn't mean the threat actually exists. It is all about a little thing called "intent".
<quoted text>
The freaking idiocy you're presenting is based on your retarded right-wing ideology instead of factual evidence ... ye moron!

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#104256 Apr 12, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
The freaking idiocy you're presenting is based on your retarded right-wing ideology instead of factual evidence ... ye moron!
And yet you can't dispute ANYTHING I have said. Why is that, troll???
Duh

Canonsburg, PA

#104257 Apr 12, 2013
crawlfish wrote:
<quoted text>And are you so naive to think that this govt or any govt would stop at a certain point. They would keep on till guns were 'totally' banned, then guess what, that opens the door for them to start on doing away with other freedoms.
You are paranoid and delusional

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#104258 Apr 12, 2013
MalbarCACA Controllers wrote:
<quoted text>
No Ades Bender sock and puppet "non desirable elements on topix" clones are acceptable to us.
Idiotic MUMBO JUMBO, STU PIDEASS Muzzie Monkey gibberish, Bender gobbledegook WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
DESIST IMMEDIATELY FROM ANY FURTHER POSTING.
Takle off, No nothing.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#104263 Apr 12, 2013
DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
Here, is this "factual" enough for you?
"Every citizen is, from the nature of our social organization, a part of the public defense; and he is also, in the last resort, in common with his fellow-citizens, the safeguard of the liberties of all against the government itself. Thus it is that amendments to the Constitution of the United States have provided that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It seems indispensable to the accomplishment of the objects referred to that every citizen should be armed..."-- John C. Edwards, Secretary of State, 11/15/1833.'Military Affairs', Application of Missouri for the establishment of a depot of arms near the northwestern boundry of that state.
Come on now Forrest try and move into the 21st century with the rest of us, give it shot you can do it!

Since: Feb 13

United States

#104264 Apr 12, 2013
Duh wrote:
<quoted text>
You are paranoid and delusional
And you, apparently know nothing about world history and/or are really naive in the ways of the world. Do you honestly think it couldnt happen in the states? Are you that really that naive?
I would lay money down and bet you that most people whose govt betrayed its people never thought that their govt would do that to them.
There's only word for you, fool.
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104265 Apr 12, 2013
australians are morons wrote:
<quoted text>you tough australian with no testicles and a big mouth. It would be funny if you were the&#65279; first, but most aussies are just like you.
No,'most Aussies' are not like her. On what do you base this opinion? Do you have any knowledge of Australia? How many Australians have you met, how many Australian friends do you have?

Have you ever lived in Australia, or even visited the country?

I'd guess your answer would be 'no' to every question.

Since: Feb 13

United States

#104266 Apr 12, 2013
boredguy wrote:
<quoted text>
No,'most Aussies' are not like her. On what do you base this opinion? Do you have any knowledge of Australia? How many Australians have you met, how many Australian friends do you have?
Have you ever lived in Australia, or even visited the country?
I'd guess your answer would be 'no' to every question.
So, tell us then, are most australians like ahomana?

Since: Feb 13

United States

#104267 Apr 12, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on now Forrest try and move into the 21st century with the rest of us, give it shot you can do it!
Seems to me like David keeps give you facts, and all you can do is to attempt to come back with lil witty smerk remarks. That tells me, you're lost for intelligent debate and have to rely on such things.
Seems like 'forrest' ye moron, as you call him, has outwitted you. Now, where does that leave you? LMAO
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104268 Apr 12, 2013
sid wrote:
You people are wilfully insane, 9 out 10 americans own guns, that mean 9 out of 10 americans have the opportunity to resort to using a gun to resolve conflict or dispute with a gun rather than by non lethal means , what sort of society have you created where in the heat of the moment 9 out of 10 people have the ability to kill or wound each other so efficiently. You are not seeing what's in front of your face, 9 out of 10 of you live in such fear that you feel the need to own such an efficient killing device, and don't give me the baseball bat and screwdriver bullshit. How is it that countries like japan manage to do very well with virtually zero gun ownership.
You are pretty quick to tell me that america is the greatest democracy on earth and pretty good at shoving that down the rest of the worlds throat yet you are all shit scared your government is going to kill you, what sort of democracy do you have or is it a tyranny you live under. Land of the free and home of the brave my arse, land of the enslaved and home of the shit scared more like it. You are afraid of everyone and everything that's why you need to arm yourselves, if it's not the government or terrorists or gangs it's anyone else, because they have the means of killing you quick and easy just as you have the same ability, so everyone is afraid of everyone. If you were so free and brave you wouldn't need a gun to back up your bravado.
"How is it that countries like japan manage to do very well with virtually zero gun ownership."

Hve you ever lived in the US? Comparing America to Japan is plain crazy. These two countries are almost polar opposites in every way. Nobody is mentioning an elephant in the room, so I won't either, since this is a US forum and I don't wish to be impolite.

But here are some hints:

LA riots
Detroit
Philadelphia
Tray

Oxford, MS

#104269 Apr 12, 2013
Suicide in Japan has become a significant national social-issue. Japan has one of the world's highest suicide rates, and the Japanese government reported the rate for 2006 as being the ninth highest in the world. 71% of suicides in Japan were male, and it is the leading cause of death in men aged 20-44. And with fewer guns. Common methods of suicide are jumping in front of trains, leaping off high places, hanging, or overdosing on medication. Rail companies will charge the families of those who commit suicide a fee depending on the severity of disrupted traffic.

A newer method, gaining in popularity partly due to publicity from Internet suicide websites, is to use household products to make the poisonous gas hydrogen sulfide. In 2007, only 29 suicides used this gas, but in a span from January to September 2008, 867 suicides resulted from gas poisoning. This method is particularly problematic, as there is high risk of hurting others in the process. After a man who attempted suicide in 2008 by swallowing pesticides was hospitalized, 50 people in the hospital were sickened by the toxic fumes.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#104270 Apr 12, 2013
crawlfish wrote:
<quoted text>Seems to me like David keeps give you facts, and all you can do is to attempt to come back with lil witty smerk remarks. That tells me, you're lost for intelligent debate and have to rely on such things.
Seems like 'forrest' ye moron, as you call him, has outwitted you. Now, where does that leave you? LMAO
Yeah right compared to what?
spocko

Oakland, CA

#104271 Apr 12, 2013
The south is the most violent region in the country, and has the highest prevalence of gun carrying.

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