It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103293 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

levi

United States

#98477 Jan 24, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
No problems, there is more where that came from, exclusively for pro gun lunatics like yourself.
Man o man, you're killing me with kindness, thats so unbecomeing of you. much better when Careful now, or you'll give me an erection.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#98478 Jan 24, 2013
levi wrote:
<quoted text> Man o man, you're killing me with kindness, thats so unbecomeing of you. much better when Careful now, or you'll give me an erection.
You would need the actual equipment for that to take place....till then you can dream....
levi

United States

#98480 Jan 24, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
You would need the actual equipment for that to take place....till then you can dream....
Now you try to insult my 'equipment' without giveing it a test drive. You really are a woman after my own heart. Opps, now you've done it, I got a rise.
GoGoBar

Chiang Mai, Thailand

#98481 Jan 24, 2013
levi wrote:
<quoted text>What do you mean by 'more' lethal? I could take my bow and kill you, or I could shoot you and kill you. In either case you would be dead, death is equal. BTW, I wasnt threating you, lol, just trying to make a point. lol
High Income Countries with National gun control have bows and arrows and spears and sword and guns every weapon available in the USA.

But they just cant kill as many fellow citizens as the Highest Income Nation of them all.
GoGoBar

Chiang Mai, Thailand

#98482 Jan 24, 2013
HollybytheSea wrote:
How many Anti-gun Nutters here have actually ever shot a gun or even legally owned one?
Look it up, Holly.
I have owned and shot many guns.
1.5 million kangaroos get shot every year. 2-3 million if Australia is coming off a big wet.
But alas, only about 20 gun homicides per year.
Why is that?
levi

United States

#98483 Jan 24, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
High Income Countries with National gun control have bows and arrows and spears and sword and guns every weapon available in the USA.
But they just cant kill as many fellow citizens as the Highest Income Nation of them all.
I understand what you're saying now. So just for the sake of conversation, what would you suggest america do? And be realistic, remember our bill of rights and constitution, so outlawing guns totally is illegal by our own laws of the land.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#98484 Jan 24, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
gun Robbery Murder 750
Gun Self defence Homicide 201
They are shooting the shit out of you.
Self defense homicides stats are bs. If someone shoots someone in self defense and leaves the scene how does LE know it was an act of self defense. They don't but the perp is still dead.

On a bitterly cold morning in early January 2009 ,the war, in sense, found Chris (Kyle) again. What happened to him not far from his home outside Dallas never made the news, since the town involved didn't want the publicity, but the incident would certainly have made national headlines had a reporter ever gotten a tip about it.
Chris was minding his own business, fueling his pickup truck at a gas station, when he found himself at gunpoint. Two men holding pistols demanded his truck. Law enforcement will usually advise you to gve in to the criminal in a situation like this. And that's good advice. But Chris took another route. Very calmly and coolly, he size up which of the two was handling his pistol most comfortably. He put his hands up and told them he was going to reach into the truck for his keys.Then his hand went under his coat. From a waistband holster, he pulled his Colt 1911. Swinging the pistol under his left armpit, he gave each robber two .45 cal HYdra -Shok hollow points to the chest. By the time the cops responded to the 911 call from the terrified lady who had locked herself in a car behind Chris's truck, the matter was settled. Elapsed time: about ten seconds. The service station security cameras caught the whole thing.
I pray for anyone whose life gets so desperate that he or she chooses to resort to a life of crime, but its hard to resist cold laughter all the same: I mean, how unlucky a dumbass do you have to be to target a random guy for felony armed assault and find out he's killed more people than smallpox?"

As related by Marcus Luttrell , former Navy Seal And author of "Lone Survivor" He writes about the incident i in his second book, "Service"(2012)

Chris Kyle is a former Navy Seal and the author of "American Sniper, The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History." (2012)
He served four tours in Iraq, awarded two Silver Stars, five Bronze Stars with Valor, shot twice and involved in six separate IED explosions .He is credited with 160 confirmed kills and 95 probables .Oh wait, make that 162 confirmed kills.
GoGoBar

Chiang Mai, Thailand

#98485 Jan 24, 2013
levi wrote:
<quoted text> I understand what you're saying now. So just for the sake of conversation, what would you suggest america do? And be realistic, remember our bill of rights and constitution, so outlawing guns totally is illegal by our own laws of the land.
I think Obahma has reacted correctly and started the conversation.
If it is a serious conversation, it will bear results.
Nobody says it will be an instant fix. It is going to take effort and co-operation from legitimate gun owners.

Databases exhist now that were never available before. The aim is to keep firearms out of the hands of unstable people.

Hawaii is the only State with Sovereign borders and they do very well compared to Other countries.

Remebering the Constitution and Supreme Court decisions it is foolish for Radical Gun Advocates to DEMAND that there be no gun free zones. That is as unrealistic as banning guns altogether.

Serious conversation is the first step.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#98486 Jan 24, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
Look it up, Holly.
I have owned and shot many guns.
1.5 million kangaroos get shot every year. 2-3 million if Australia is coming off a big wet.
But alas, only about 20 gun homicides per year.
Why is that?
That was a rhetorical question. LOL
GoGoBar

Chiang Mai, Thailand

#98487 Jan 24, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Self defense homicides stats are bs. If someone shoots someone in self defense and leaves the scene how does LE know it was an act of self defense. They don't but the perp is still dead.
On a bitterly cold morning in early January 2009 ,the war, in sense, found Chris (Kyle) again. What happened to him not far from his home outside Dallas never made the news, since the town involved didn't want the publicity, but the incident would certainly have made national headlines had a reporter ever gotten a tip about it.
Chris was minding his own business, fueling his pickup truck at a gas station, when he found himself at gunpoint. Two men holding pistols demanded his truck. Law enforcement will usually advise you to gve in to the criminal in a situation like this. And that's good advice. But Chris took another route. Very calmly and coolly, he size up which of the two was handling his pistol most comfortably. He put his hands up and told them he was going to reach into the truck for his keys.Then his hand went under his coat. From a waistband holster, he pulled his Colt 1911. Swinging the pistol under his left armpit, he gave each robber two .45 cal HYdra -Shok hollow points to the chest. By the time the cops responded to the 911 call from the terrified lady who had locked herself in a car behind Chris's truck, the matter was settled. Elapsed time: about ten seconds. The service station security cameras caught the whole thing.
I pray for anyone whose life gets so desperate that he or she chooses to resort to a life of crime, but its hard to resist cold laughter all the same: I mean, how unlucky a dumbass do you have to be to target a random guy for felony armed assault and find out he's killed more people than smallpox?"
As related by Marcus Luttrell , former Navy Seal And author of "Lone Survivor" He writes about the incident i in his second book, "Service"(2012)
Chris Kyle is a former Navy Seal and the author of "American Sniper, The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History." (2012)
He served four tours in Iraq, awarded two Silver Stars, five Bronze Stars with Valor, shot twice and involved in six separate IED explosions .He is credited with 160 confirmed kills and 95 probables .Oh wait, make that 162 confirmed kills.
If that were the norm then might not the gentlemanly rascals have adapted to the norm and just popped Chris in the back of the head with no warning and drove off in his pick up.

On his headstone it could be said he killed many an enemy but was slaughtered by a fellow citizen for his lousy pick up truck.
levi

United States

#98488 Jan 24, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
I think Obahma has reacted correctly and started the conversation.
If it is a serious conversation, it will bear results.
Nobody says it will be an instant fix. It is going to take effort and co-operation from legitimate gun owners.
Databases exhist now that were never available before. The aim is to keep firearms out of the hands of unstable people.
Hawaii is the only State with Sovereign borders and they do very well compared to Other countries.
Remebering the Constitution and Supreme Court decisions it is foolish for Radical Gun Advocates to DEMAND that there be no gun free zones. That is as unrealistic as banning guns altogether.
Serious conversation is the first step.
But we have gun free zones. The last school shooting was a gun free zone, as are all schools in america, and most places of worship. Still, Im interested in knowing what you personally think we should do? I agree, something must be done, and it wont be easy, but banning our guns wont work. For one, its our heritage, our culture. How does a free society ban an entire nations culture, and call itself a free society. That is nothing short of communism or socialism.
GoGoBar

Chiang Mai, Thailand

#98489 Jan 24, 2013
HollybytheSea wrote:
<quoted text>That was a rhetorical question. LOL
I like the answer.
The most radicasl anti gun nutters are the ones who have had their children slaughtered for no logical reason.

One nutter from the Columbine Massacre wears his sons sneakers to debates and asks if anyone would like to stand in his shoes.

Gabby Gifford believes in the second ammendment but has joined the conversation.

Wayne LaPierre has thrown up his hands and called for federal Intervention.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#98490 Jan 24, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
But they make crime more lethal.
4-10 x more lethal than countries with National Gun Control.
And mass shootings, rapid fire guns with large magazine capacity, definately increase the dead and wounded.
Despite the Mexican constitutional right to own a firearm, it is one of the toughest countries in the hemisphere to own a gun… at least legally. This, however, has not stopped the country’s drug cartels from amassing large caches of firearms and other deadly devices.
There is only one gun store in the country, located in Mexico City. After the civil unrest of the 1960s, Mexican made reforms to the Constitution and put limits on gun ownership and restricted the right to carry a firearm to law enforcement and federal officials.

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/01...

As example, Cottrol pointed to Jamaica, which in the 1970s passed strict gun legislation in the hopes of curbing violence — to no avail. Much of the violence in Kingston and other cities has been attributed to criminal groups running the country’s lucrative drug trade.
“If you can’t stop outlaws from getting guns on a small island," Cottrol asked, "how are you going to stop them on a continent with multiple borders and ports of entry?”

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/01...

Busted!!
The SCREWFIX IT TEAM

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#98491 Jan 24, 2013
levi wrote:
<quoted text>But we have gun free zones. The last school shooting was a gun free zone, as are all schools in america, and most places of worship. Still, Im interested in knowing what you personally think we should do? I agree, something must be done, and it wont be easy, but banning our guns wont work. For one, its our heritage, our culture. How does a free society ban an entire nations culture, and call itself a free society. That is nothing short of communism or socialism.
GO AWAY hide myASS! cute Indian greg chickyladyrentboy.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#98492 Jan 24, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
If that were the norm then might not the gentlemanly rascals have adapted to the norm and just popped Chris in the back of the head with no warning and drove off in his pick up.
On his headstone it could be said he killed many an enemy but was slaughtered by a fellow citizen for his lousy pick up truck.


Coulda ,shoulda, woulda. They are dead,stopped in a felony assault by a law abiding citizen.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#98493 Jan 24, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
I think Obahma has reacted correctly and started the conversation.
If it is a serious conversation, it will bear results.
Nobody says it will be an instant fix. It is going to take effort and co-operation from legitimate gun owners.
Databases exhist now that were never available before. The aim is to keep firearms out of the hands of unstable people.
Hawaii is the only State with Sovereign borders and they do very well compared to Other countries.
Remebering the Constitution and Supreme Court decisions it is foolish for Radical Gun Advocates to DEMAND that there be no gun free zones. That is as unrealistic as banning guns altogether.
Serious conversation is the first step.
Between the first significant school shooting, in 1966, and enactment of the 1996 (Gun Free School Zones Act], media summaries reveal eight shootings with 134 victims killed or wounded – a rate of 4.3 victims per year,” said the letter to members of Congress and other leaders.

“Between 1996 and 2012, the review finds 62 shootings and 367 victims – a fivefold increase to 23 victims per year. Yet, during the same period, FBI Uniform Crime Reports indicate homicide nationwide dropped by 14 percent,” the letter explains.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/gun-groups-to-cong...

Some people call gun free zones, sitting duck zones,and the victim stats would seem to bear out the definition.
GoGoBar

Chiang Mai, Thailand

#98494 Jan 24, 2013
levi wrote:
<quoted text>But we have gun free zones. The last school shooting was a gun free zone, as are all schools in america, and most places of worship. Still, Im interested in knowing what you personally think we should do? I agree, something must be done, and it wont be easy, but banning our guns wont work. For one, its our heritage, our culture. How does a free society ban an entire nations culture, and call itself a free society. That is nothing short of communism or socialism.
In a free society, States would be free to ban handguns if they were causing a problem.
Not have a National Firearm Association with 1.2% population membership dictating that the State imposing a restriction NOT be allowed to begin the long, hard journey of removing what is obviously a problem.
Maybee it would not work. But not to be able to try is pathetic.

The cultural ICON of Tobacco has been succesfully changed.
Motor vehichle fatalities has been halved.

Not changing cultural stereotypes more like ISLSAM than a nation moving forward.

Federal Research into gun violence was squashed by the gun lobby in 1997 after Federally Funded researchers began unveiling some interesting facts.
GoGoBar

Chiang Mai, Thailand

#98495 Jan 24, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Between the first significant school shooting, in 1966, and enactment of the 1996 (Gun Free School Zones Act], media summaries reveal eight shootings with 134 victims killed or wounded – a rate of 4.3 victims per year,” said the letter to members of Congress and other leaders.
“Between 1996 and 2012, the review finds 62 shootings and 367 victims – a fivefold increase to 23 victims per year. Yet, during the same period, FBI Uniform Crime Reports indicate homicide nationwide dropped by 14 percent,” the letter explains.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/gun-groups-to-cong...
Some people call gun free zones, sitting duck zones,and the victim stats would seem to bear out the definition.
Well Obahma has funded research into this matter and reports will soon be coming from qualified researchers.
Those figures seem paultry compared to the similar age groups of children killed every year in gun zones.
If you wish to subtract the 23 per year from the murders with guns every year, go ahead.
You wont have to though.
Databases will be churning the hard drives as we speak.

The chick pecketh, t'will soon be out.

levi

United States

#98496 Jan 24, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
In a free society, States would be free to ban handguns if they were causing a problem.
Not have a National Firearm Association with 1.2% population membership dictating that the State imposing a restriction NOT be allowed to begin the long, hard journey of removing what is obviously a problem.
Maybee it would not work. But not to be able to try is pathetic.
The cultural ICON of Tobacco has been succesfully changed.
Motor vehichle fatalities has been halved.
Not changing cultural stereotypes more like ISLSAM than a nation moving forward.
Federal Research into gun violence was squashed by the gun lobby in 1997 after Federally Funded researchers began unveiling some interesting facts.
The state in which I live has passed a law saying that state agenicies are not punished if they refuse to aid the feds in gun law. I support that law. We also have the ' castle 'law, which I also support, and it works, check it out.
I just cant see punishing an entire nation, its culture and heritage, bc of the selfish act of a few evil and sick indivisuals.
GoGoBar

Chiang Mai, Thailand

#98497 Jan 24, 2013
levi wrote:
<quoted text> The state in which I live has passed a law saying that state agenicies are not punished if they refuse to aid the feds in gun law. I support that law. We also have the ' castle 'law, which I also support, and it works, check it out.
I just cant see punishing an entire nation, its culture and heritage, bc of the selfish act of a few evil and sick indivisuals.
The way I see it, hunters, frontiersmen, farmers, target shooters, trappers, etc... will not be punished but inconvenienced. What law abiding citizen would not put up with some inconvenience for the common good.

The current culture is somewhat different from the stereotype.
Wayne LaPierre has spoken of this. That is the culture that is causing the problem.
The first ammendment has morphed from political free speech to be dominated by Pornagraphy, Unrealistic Violent entertainment and quite frankly Rap Music. All for profit.
The second ammendment has become a slogan and licence for ever more deadly weapons that have become an arms race and fashion statement.
All for profit, not for liberty.

It does not take much imiganation to see if things go on unchecked that it will be an utter nightmare in 100 years time. You only have to hanker back to the good old days to see that.

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