It's the Guns, Stupid

[Guppy]

Teaman wrote:

<quoted text>
"When the government tells you to do something~you do it, or else you pay the consequences."
Oh boy! I hope this isn't our future speaking here.

I hope it is, pertaining to guns.

Your tax money at work...

[Dr Freud]

Marauder wrote:

<quoted text>
"gun regulation is a state matter. Someone in Suburban NJ wouldn't have the same needs as a rancher on the Mexican border."
May not have the same "needs", determined by the individual, but they have the same "rights". The States and local gov'ts are under the same restrictions as the federal gov't is under the 2nd Amendment.

"The States and local gov'ts are under the same restrictions as the federal gov't is under the 2nd Amendment."

The only thing stopping that from being fully enforced is that many people just give a damned about something which doesn't directly impact them.
They simply do not want to 'get involved.'

[Teaman]

Marauder wrote:

<quoted text>
"gun regulation is a state matter. Someone in Suburban NJ wouldn't have the same needs as a rancher on the Mexican border."
May not have the same "needs", determined by the individual, but they have the same "rights". The States and local gov'ts are under the same restrictions as the federal gov't is under the 2nd Amendment.

That's right. The state can't deny the right to keep and bear arms.
They can regulate. If I fired a shot here and missed, the bullet could go through two other houses. You have different circumstances where you are.

Shotgun hunting only here. Bolt action rifle only in the state next door. The states or their people regulate. The right to keep and bear arms can't be denied.

[Guppy]

Marauder wrote:

<quoted text>
"When the government tells you to do something~you do it, or else you pay the consequences."
If...when...maybe...

When the government says to you, JUMP! You'll say, how high.

[Dr Freud]

Teaman wrote:

<quoted text>
That's right. The state can't deny the right to keep and bear arms.
They can regulate. If I fired a shot here and missed, the bullet could go through two other houses. You have different circumstances where you are.
Shotgun hunting only here. Bolt action rifle only in the state next door. The states or their people regulate. The right to keep and bear arms can't be denied.

Allow me to say that what you're speaking of is that matter of 'ordnance,' wherein the right itself isn't being regulated, but in fact what is being regulated is the activity.
A good common sense ordinance would of necessity state that discharging a gun in a thickly settled area, without regard to the possible harm it might cause, is forbidden, unless the act is conducted in self-defense.
In that case, which I state above, the right isn't regulated in and of itself. The ordinance is a demand that right be exercised responsibly.

[Dr Freud]

Guppy wrote:

<quoted text>
When the government says to you, JUMP! You'll say, how high.

And when the rest of us exclaim "DROP DEAD!", then YOU are supposed to enquire:'For how long?'

[Teaman]

Dr Freud wrote:

<quoted text>
Allow me to say that what you're speaking of is that matter of 'ordnance,' wherein the right itself isn't being regulated, but in fact what is being regulated is the activity.
A good common sense ordinance would of necessity state that discharging a gun in a thickly settled area, without regard to the possible harm it might cause, is forbidden, unless the act is conducted in self-defense.
In that case, which I state above, the right isn't regulated in and of itself. The ordinance is a demand that right be exercised responsibly.

You said it better than me. The right to possess isn't regulated. The use is regulated by state law and local ordinance. I believe Marauder was eluding to the 14th amendment which is another discussion. The right to keep and bear arms was already a right in the state constitutions. Another discussion in an erroneous power grab by the supreme court.

Federal constitutional law is limited to regulation of commerce. There shouldn't be any federal laws pertaining to possession. Another court case down the road, I suppose.

[Dr Freud]

Teaman wrote:

<quoted text>
You said it better than me. The right to possess isn't regulated. The use is regulated by state law and local ordinance. I believe Marauder was eluding to the 14th amendment which is another discussion. The right to keep and bear arms was already a right in the state constitutions. Another discussion in an erroneous power grab by the supreme court.
Federal constitutional law is limited to regulation of commerce. There shouldn't be any federal laws pertaining to possession. Another court case down the road, I suppose.

The United States Supreme Court has a very spotty history, predicated I will suppose, upon the variable nature of Man's honesty.
The 'commerce clause' was thought necessary by the Founders of the United States, because in that period leading up to the U.S. Constitution, many states engaged in restraint of trade practices, even going so far as to raise prohibitively high tariffs on other state's products upon crossing their own borders.
The whole idea behind that clause, when you read the debates of the Continental Congress while U.S. Constitution was being hammered out, was to ensure free trade amongst the states.
In no part of those discussions was any thought raised regarding 'controlling' what the states passed between each other.
That thought, the one about 'controlling,' was raised much later, in the Supreme Court, by men with an ulterior motive.
Since then, those rulings have had a most perverse affect, even going so far as to declare that the U.S. government has the authority to control what a farmer might grow on his own land, for his own consumption!
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/histori...
That is so hideous as to fly directly into the face everything the U.S. Constitution was meant to protect.
See this too:
http://www.naturalnews.com/030799_food_freedo...

[tinydropthestick gooddog]

Ever notice how all these gunsuckers have got that Little Big Man syndrome - ha ha
its quite comic really . lol

[look]

Guppy you definately don't have a job, your on here every hr. on the hr., get a job and a life, and quit trying to control others like you control your cats,lol. It's a pathetic excuse for a life, don't you have friends??? Also your getting NO WHERE, your arguments have NO foundation, just like your existence here on earth, climb out of your fish bowl and get a life...

[look]

Dr Freud wrote:

<quoted text>
The United States Supreme Court has a very spotty history, predicated I will suppose, upon the variable nature of Man's honesty.
The 'commerce clause' was thought necessary by the Founders of the United States, because in that period leading up to the U.S. Constitution, many states engaged in restraint of trade practices, even going so far as to raise prohibitively high tariffs on other state's products upon crossing their own borders.
The whole idea behind that clause, when you read the debates of the Continental Congress while U.S. Constitution was being hammered out, was to ensure free trade amongst the states.
In no part of those discussions was any thought raised regarding 'controlling' what the states passed between each other.
That thought, the one about 'controlling,' was raised much later, in the Supreme Court, by men with an ulterior motive.
Since then, those rulings have had a most perverse affect, even going so far as to declare that the U.S. government has the authority to control what a farmer might grow on his own land, for his own consumption!
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/histori...
That is so hideous as to fly directly into the face everything the U.S. Constitution was meant to protect.
See this too:
http://www.naturalnews.com/030799_food_freedo...

Look at AGENDA 21, see what you think, it's all about CONTROL...

[Dr Freud]

look wrote:

<quoted text> Look at AGENDA 21, see what you think, it's all about CONTROL...

Well, of course it is!
The effete elite hate everyone who's not at their economic level.
Of course, it should be said that to be at their level, one must of necessity have either inherited extreme wealth, or have employed underhanded tactics in order to have achieved that wealth.
The extremely wealthy, you see, don't pay taxes, inasmuch as it is THEY who make the laws, and therefore exempt themselves from those taxes.
Agenda 21 is all about us: How to both LIMIT us, as well as to GET RID of us.

[Guppy]

look wrote:

Guppy you definately don't have a job, your on here every hr. on the hr., get a job and a life, and quit trying to control others like you control your cats,lol. It's a pathetic excuse for a life, don't you have friends??? Also your getting NO WHERE, your arguments have NO foundation, just like your existence here on earth, climb out of your fish bowl and get a life...

How do you know I am here every hour on the hour?

Thank you for your concern, but I'm fine. I can do as I please.

[Guppy]

Dr Freud wrote:

<quoted text>
And when the rest of us exclaim "DROP DEAD!", then YOU are supposed to enquire:'For how long?'

You are fixated on death, you old windbag.

[Dr Freud]

Guppy wrote:

<quoted text>
You are fixated on death, you old windbag.

That YOU have the temerity to refer to me as such is ludicrous in the extreme!
If anyone is anything, it is YOU: YOU are a FARTBAG!
Why? Because YOUR opinions STINK!

[look]

Guppy wrote:

<quoted text>
You are fixated on death, you old windbag.

Actually he's fixated on LIFE, your fixated on NOTHING...Stay in your fish bowl, and keep your eyes and ears closed like you obviously have been doing your entire life, your as UN-AMERICAN as sauer-kraut...

[Coo]

Dr Freud wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, of course it is!
The effete elite hate everyone who's not at their economic level.
Of course, it should be said that to be at their level, one must of necessity have either inherited extreme wealth, or have employed underhanded tactics in order to have achieved that wealth.
The extremely wealthy, you see, don't pay taxes, inasmuch as it is THEY who make the laws, and therefore exempt themselves from those taxes.
Agenda 21 is all about us: How to both LIMIT us, as well as to GET RID of us.

koo, cookoo, cookoo

[look]

Guppy wrote:

<quoted text>
How do you know I am here every hour on the hour?
Thank you for your concern, but I'm fine. I can do as I please.

No you can't do as you please because your NOT physically or mentally capable of doing much of anything except smashing ass...

[How]

look wrote:

<quoted text> Look at AGENDA 21, see what you think, it's all about CONTROL...

does that old Willie Nelson song go:

Crazy

[look]

How wrote:

<quoted text>
does that old Willie Nelson song go:
Crazy

What do you think about Agenda 21??? Do you even know what it is??? I guess you gun control communist want more government control...You'll be the ones that jump when uncle sam says so, and apparently you'll do it with a smile on your face...Your a bunch of baseless idiots...2% of gun murders are committed with a AR-15 type rifle, so why the BIG push by the gun "control" communist??? Your getting NO WHERE...