It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103311 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Dr Freud

Bethnal Green, UK

#95747 Jan 13, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Two good points.
Psychiatrists and physicians already have a duty to report child abuse, rightfully so. Physicians have to report gun shot wounds. Auto body shops have to report bullet holes in cars. I would expect a psychiatrist to be held to the same standard and report an immediate danger to society without damaging the normal doctor patient privilege. There would have to be a medically accepted standard to prevent the arbitration you mentioned. I do agree a can of worms could be opened without a standard.
Correct me, should I happen to be wrong, but in the U.S., ONLY a judge is allowed to make that determination regarding fitness, when the person in question is deemed unfit.
Walter Harold Marlin

Mount Holly, NJ

#95748 Jan 13, 2013
Law wrote:
<quoted text>
THE GUNS FORUM
FORUM ISSUE: Reactions to Gun-Ban Arguments
POST # 1780
BY: Jack Burton
Do I need the governments permission to buy a car? No.
Do I need to buy the car from only certain people with licenses to sell cars? No.
Can I buy as many cars as I want each week/month/year. Yes
Can I buy small cars, big cars, slow cars, fast cars, cars that look dangerous? Yes
Can I buy Hummers virtually identical to the ones the troops use? Yes.
Do I have to wait from 5 to 15 days to pick up my car. No
If I traded in one car for a newer model do I still have to wait five to ten days to pick the new one up. No
Can I modify my car to allow more fuel, more performance, or better cornering. Yes
Would I have to turn over to the government without compensation some models of automobiles that might be banned years after I buy them. No
Do I need a license to buy a car? No
(in most states)
Can I buy a car at age 16? Yes.
Are driving lessons mandated in most high schools? Yes
Can I buy a car from anyone in any state? Yes.
Can I sell my car to anyone in any state? Yes
Can convicted felons buy, own or drive a car. Yes
In some places (e.g. NYC or New Jersey) would I first need a permit to buy from the police department which sometimes takes up to 2 years to obtain. No
In some cities (e.g. Washington D.C.) would I have to store my car partially disassembled. No
Do I need to register a car that I own? No (as long as I keep it on my own property)
Do I need a background check or waiting period to buy a car? No
Is my car held responsible if I misuse it? No
Would failure to register my car be a federal felony (prevents me from owning another one). No
Do I need to "safe store" my car even though many are stolen and used for criminal purposes? No
Will I lose my driver's license if I violate the law with my car? Most likely not
Can I legally drive my car into ANY state/city in the nation with EVERY jurisdiction honoring my registration/license? Yes
Shall I go on? Or do you really, really want to treat guns like cars?
Yearly registration could be a way of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. There are lots of lawyers out there if someone thought there right to bear was being violated.
just the facts plz

Coffeyville, KS

#95749 Jan 13, 2013
Spocko, do you happen to have any links for those of us with a higher than plant life iq? The Post is not exactly a paper put out by what is known as intelligent life forms, nor read by any.

“" BITE ME "”

Since: Dec 10

Olney township

#95751 Jan 13, 2013
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
Why should anyone have to restate the obvious, when that obvious was so well-spoken by another?
Do you presume to say that nobody should have dictionaries, merely that they resort to what's an already known definition?
Why don't you silently and privately pass gas, before your head explodes.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#95752 Jan 13, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> All governments are just one dictator away from being oppressive. Our government of the people is kept that way by the citizens having guns. Why would you fear a neighbor having a gun? When you owned a gun did it suddenly make you want to go kill people? I own many and have never had even one control my mental capacity.
Well, we have no legalized handguns in Canada, except certain people with special permits, for special reasons, and we have a much lower crime rate, and murder rate than the USA. I don't want to be on a crowded street where someone gets into a fight or a road rage situation, and some silly civilian pulls out a handgun and starts shooting. Odds are pretty good he will hit anyone but the person he is trying to hit.

The problem, as I see it, with the USA, is it was founded with guns, it fought against itself with guns in the Civil War and it has been fightng before and since that, almost all of the time, somewhere. Part of that is due to a gun mentality, where everything can be settled with a gun (granted the big guns they are using nowadays in wars, one couldn't house at home or on their person, but the mentality is stil there).

I am not against guns. Just against people carrying them in a non-hunting or non-target shooting situation, or having them at the ready at home to meet any stranger at the door with (I realize not everyone does that). A thief is more likely to use violence in a breakin if he knows you are armed, then if he knows that the average person is not permitted to arm himself against other people.

One only has to look at the abysmmal record of the US in just my lifetime to see how much damage in the world the US gun mentality has led to.

No, I am not giving a Canadian left wing opinion. That opinion is shared by a lot of Americans too. I just did a google search under "does the usa have a gun mentality". I got over 7 million hits. Must be someone in the world besides me that has a similar opinion, though granted many of the articles would be opposing that view.
Dr Freud

Bethnal Green, UK

#95753 Jan 13, 2013
Walter Harold Marlin wrote:
<quoted text>
Yearly registration could be a way of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. There are lots of lawyers out there if someone thought there right to bear was being violated.

QUESTION FOR YOU:
WHEN was the last time —PROVIDE DATA— that registration of whatever, stopped a crime, violent or otherwise, from happening?
Dr Freud

Bethnal Green, UK

#95754 Jan 13, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you silently and privately pass gas, before your head explodes.
Why should anyone have to restate the obvious, when that obvious was so well-spoken by another?
Do you presume to say that nobody should have dictionaries, merely that they resort to what's an already known definition?
Walter Harold Marlin

Mount Holly, NJ

#95755 Jan 13, 2013
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
QUESTION FOR YOU:
WHEN was the last time —PROVIDE DATA— that registration of whatever, stopped a crime, violent or otherwise, from happening?
If someone knows that purchasing a gun for someone else is going to catch up to them legally that straw purchaser may not make the purchase.
Dr Freud

Bethnal Green, UK

#95756 Jan 13, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, we have no legalized handguns in Canada, except certain people with special permits, for special reasons, and we have a much lower crime rate, and murder rate than the USA. I don't want to be on a crowded street where someone gets into a fight or a road rage situation, and some silly civilian pulls out a handgun and starts shooting. Odds are pretty good he will hit anyone but the person he is trying to hit.
When was the last time that happened in the U.S.?
Got data?
boooots wrote:
The problem, as I see it, with the USA, is it was founded with guns,
Precisely how is that a problem, when it WON their liberty to be FREE from the crown, under which YOU still labor?
boooots wrote:
it fought against itself with guns in the Civil War and it has been fightng before and since that, almost all of the time, somewhere.
And?
boooots wrote:
Part of that is due to a gun mentality, where everything can be settled with a gun
Really? Is THAT YOUR perception of Americans, that every disagreement is settled with guns?
boooots wrote:
(granted the big guns they are using nowadays in wars, one couldn't house at home or on their person, but the mentality is stil there).
No, it's YOUR mentality which is still there.
boooots wrote:
I am not against guns. Just against people carrying them in a non-hunting or non-target shooting situation, or having them at the ready at home to meet any stranger at the door with (I realize not everyone does that).
No self-defense, then? Women are just simply supposed to 'let it happen' when a rapist shows up on the scene?
And everyone else is simply just supposed to allow rapes, robberies, and murders to happen, just because YOU say so?
boooots wrote:
A thief is more likely to use violence in a breakin if he knows you are armed, then if he knows that the average person is not permitted to arm himself against other people.
Funny thing: In the U.S. each year, the people there employ guns in self-defense in upwards of 2.5 million times each year, to either stop a violent crime in progress, or to STOP one from happening to begin with.
THAT statistic alone shoves YOUR BROWN TINGED 'fact' back from where you pulled it.
boooots wrote:
One only has to look at the abysmmal record of the US in just my lifetime to see how much damage in the world the US gun mentality has led to.
The ONLY 'abysmal record' is caused by a justice system which operates like a revolving door for violent criminals.
boooots wrote:
No, I am not giving a Canadian left wing opinion.
BULLSHIT!
boooots wrote:
That opinion is shared by a lot of Americans too.
BULLSHIT!
boooots wrote:
I just did a google search under "does the usa have a gun mentality". I got over 7 million hits. Must be someone in the world besides me that has a similar opinion, though granted many of the articles would be opposing that view.
As if 'google' were the last word on everything, right?
And then YOU have the BLOODY NERVE to preach to everyone else!!!!
Dr Freud

Bethnal Green, UK

#95757 Jan 13, 2013
Walter Harold Marlin wrote:
<quoted text>
If someone knows that purchasing a gun for someone else is going to catch up to them legally that straw purchaser may not make the purchase.
YOU did NOT DIRECTLY ADDRESS my question. So here it is again:
QUESTION FOR YOU:
WHEN was the last time —PROVIDE DATA— that registration of whatever, stopped a crime, violent or otherwise, from happening?
Guppy

Savannah, GA

#95758 Jan 13, 2013
Guppy wrote:
One time my dad shot my pee-pee off with his gun.
Now I don't like guns
So that's the problem.....
Walter Harold Marlin

Mount Holly, NJ

#95759 Jan 13, 2013
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU did NOT DIRECTLY ADDRESS my question. So here it is again:
QUESTION FOR YOU:
WHEN was the last time —PROVIDE DATA— that registration of whatever, stopped a crime, violent or otherwise, from happening?
Criminals often use "straw purchaser" to purchase a gun for them.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...

What might a criminal do with a gun?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#95760 Jan 13, 2013
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
When was the last time that happened in the U.S.?
Got data?
<quoted text>
Precisely how is that a problem, when it WON their liberty to be FREE from the crown, under which YOU still labor?
<quoted text>
And?
<quoted text>
Really? Is THAT YOUR perception of Americans, that every disagreement is settled with guns?
<quoted text>
No, it's YOUR mentality which is still there.
<quoted text>
No self-defense, then? Women are just simply supposed to 'let it happen' when a rapist shows up on the scene?
And everyone else is simply just supposed to allow rapes, robberies, and murders to happen, just because YOU say so?
<quoted text>
Funny thing: In the U.S. each year, the people there employ guns in self-defense in upwards of 2.5 million times each year, to either stop a violent crime in progress, or to STOP one from happening to begin with.
THAT statistic alone shoves YOUR BROWN TINGED 'fact' back from where you pulled it.
<quoted text>
The ONLY 'abysmal record' is caused by a justice system which operates like a revolving door for violent criminals.
<quoted text>
BULLSHIT!
<quoted text>
BULLSHIT!
<quoted text>
As if 'google' were the last word on everything, right?
And then YOU have the BLOODY NERVE to preach to everyone else!!!!
Kind of interesting considering the current discussions in the USA, and many high level people advocating restricting the gun laws, that you think it is just my opinion. How many women who are jumped by a man who drags her into an alley, or comes into her home and surprises her to rape her is going to get a time out to go into her purse, pocket, bedroom drawer, under her pillow, or wherever she has her gun stashed to shoot the guy, and how likely if she gets the gun out at all, is she to walk away from that rape alive?

Since when have Canadians been laboring under the Crown? You people went to all that trouble and blood shed, including getting badly beaten again in the War of 1812 by British and Canadians, and we are a free country and you had to sacrifice lives to get free.

Do you people REALLY believe that Canadians do what the Queen tells us to do. Personally I don't even know what the Queen's opinions are on any subject, and even if she did express them I am not interested in listening to her. Kind of think she is an expensive luxury that should have been disbanded long ago, but the British (acording to friends who came from there) seem to think she is a good tourist attraction.
Canadian Stench

Indianapolis, IN

#95761 Jan 13, 2013
^^^^^^^^^^ Clueless Canuck ^^^^^^^^^^ Clueless Canuck ^^^^^^
Dr Freud

Bethnal Green, UK

#95762 Jan 13, 2013
Walter Harold Marlin wrote:
<quoted text>Criminals often use "straw purchaser" to purchase a gun for them.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...
What might a criminal do with a gun?
WHEN was the last time —PROVIDE DATA— that registration of whatever, STOPPED a crime, violent or otherwise, from happening?
WHEN?!?!
YOU keep avoiding THAT question like the plague.
Could it be, WOULD it be, that YOU are afraid of the ANSWER?
WHEN was the last time that automobile registration STOPPED a vehicle from either being stolen, or from being used in a crime?
WHEN was the last time that aircraft registration STOPPED an airplane from either being stolen, or from being used in a crime?
Guppy

Savannah, GA

#95763 Jan 13, 2013
I'm worried about Froggy. He doesn't seem well.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#95764 Jan 13, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> So there were no criminals before guns? So there are no criminals in places that ban guns?
I have had much critisism for attacking dumb arse yankees....I have come to the conclusion that they and you are idiots...this comment puts you right up the top with the best of them....and some ignorant so called Aussies....learn to critically think...it could be the difference between looking insane like you or a brilliant mind like me....dummy....
Dr Freud

Bethnal Green, UK

#95765 Jan 13, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Kind of interesting considering the current discussions in the USA, and many high level people advocating restricting the gun laws, that you think it is just my opinion. How many women who are jumped by a man who drags her into an alley, or comes into her home and surprises her to rape her is going to get a time out to go into her purse, pocket, bedroom drawer, under her pillow, or wherever she has her gun stashed to shoot the guy, and how likely if she gets the gun out at all, is she to walk away from that rape alive?
So, it's YOUR opinion that it's better to find a woman raped, and strangled with her own pantyhose, than it is to find her standing over her attacker with a smoking gun in her hands?
boooots wrote:
Since when have Canadians been laboring under the Crown?
WHO is the GOVERNOR GENERAL of CANADA?
http://www.gg.ca/document.aspx...
boooots wrote:
You people went to all that trouble and blood shed, including getting badly beaten again in the War of 1812 by British and Canadians, and we are a free country and you had to sacrifice lives to get free.
YOU are NOT 'free.'
YOU are a SLAVE to the British Crown.
boooots wrote:
Do you people REALLY believe that Canadians do what the Queen tells us to do.
So, YOU'RE in denial?
boooots wrote:
Personally I don't even know what the Queen's opinions are on any subject, and even if she did express them I am not interested in listening to her.
CAREFUL! YOU could be ARRESTED for sedition!
boooots wrote:
Kind of think she is an expensive luxury that should have been disbanded long ago, but the British (acording to friends who came from there) seem to think she is a good tourist attraction.
TREASON!! TREASON!! TREASON!!!
Guppy

Savannah, GA

#95766 Jan 13, 2013
Gottaliv wrote:
<quoted text>
If you put your finger in a fishbowel of Guppies, they will nibble away at the skin on your finger and if you leave you finger there long enough, they can finally draw blood.
I think the name was well chosen by the Guppy proxy user. But I also think the 'Guppy' name has now been hijacked by another proxy user. And so it goes, around and around until you don't know who you're responding to at all.
And that's exactly how the Oz Forum has been destroyed, and what they are now trying to do to this thread.
Stupid dumb games played by stupid dumb people - but also played by 'cunning' people with certain agendas.
So is it even worth responding to any un-registered poster anymore?
And they've even resorted to hijacking some registered posters avatars and names, with only a very slight modification of the name (at first casual glance, usually not noticable).
So is it even worth logging on to topix, anymore?
I'll miss you...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#95767 Jan 13, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Kind of interesting considering the current discussions in the USA, and many high level people advocating restricting the gun laws, that you think it is just my opinion. How many women who are jumped by a man who drags her into an alley, or comes into her home and surprises her to rape her is going to get a time out to go into her purse, pocket, bedroom drawer, under her pillow, or wherever she has her gun stashed to shoot the guy, and how likely if she gets the gun out at all, is she to walk away from that rape alive?
Since when have Canadians been laboring under the Crown? You people went to all that trouble and blood shed, including getting badly beaten again in the War of 1812 by British and Canadians, and we are a free country and you had to sacrifice lives to get free.
Do you people REALLY believe that Canadians do what the Queen tells us to do. Personally I don't even know what the Queen's opinions are on any subject, and even if she did express them I am not interested in listening to her. Kind of think she is an expensive luxury that should have been disbanded long ago, but the British (acording to friends who came from there) seem to think she is a good tourist attraction.
The yanks conveniently ignore the war of 1812, they still live with the delusion that they win every war!

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