It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 Full story: Truthdig 103,362

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

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Dr Freud

UK

#95699 Jan 13, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
In this particular instance, I believe his selection of weaponry altered his "intent"... Dramatically.
Do you truly believe it didn't?
He selected the weapon for exactly it's "intended" purpose.
To believe otherwise is to fool yourself and rationalize the carnage.
And according to yourself, what were the chosen weapons?
Dr Freud

UK

#95700 Jan 13, 2013
Gottaliv wrote:
<quoted text>
Have to agree with that, you don't take a revolver or a knife to a blood-bath.
He was out to do maximum damage and he did that with the weapon he chose. It's not as if he didn't have a choice either, apparently his mother had more than a few different weapons.
Are you aware that a revolver may actually be shot faster than a semiauto pistol?
Also, what about those blood baths which have taken place in both China and Japan of late, where the weapon of choice was a knife?
A teacher would have to be awfully good, i.e., well-practiced with a blade to counter an attacker who's using a blade. But a teacher with decent training on the use of a firearm may very well be able have the edge over someone else using a gun to cause harm.
The dynamics of every situation vary depending upon many factors.
But in virtually every instance where a teacher was armed and able to respond in the U.S., the shooter stopped his rampage right then and there, without a shot every having been fired by the teacher.

“" BITE ME "”

Since: Dec 10

Olney township

#95701 Jan 13, 2013
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
And according to yourself, what were the chosen weapons?
Cut the crap...

I do so tire of your endless, superlative babble.

--AND

Won't be drawn into your freakish, altered sense of reality...

Today
Dr Freud

UK

#95702 Jan 13, 2013
Gottaliv wrote:
<quoted text>
Doc, I do know all that, I've lived long enough to see it happen more than once - but just 'what if' the gov does find a way to do what it wants, what are you all going to do then?
I can't speak for others, and certainly not the Americans. But from all that I've been able to gather, there are more than few of them, i.e., a significant number, who are willing to lay down their lives for their posterity, and THAT all by itself presents one hell of a BIG problem to the ones hellbent on imposing tyrannical government upon those people.
If I've been reading the matter correctly, once the attacks upon Americans start, fully half of the U.S. military establishment will engage the remaining turncoats who obey illegal orders, and then the treasonous bastards in government will all be arrested, and charged with treason.
Contrary to what many are given to believe, American soldiers, sailor, airmen, and Marines WILL NOT be blindly following orders.
Gottaliv wrote:
I can't see there being any real solution because of all the reasons you know of, so do you think you are going to have to fight this on a gov level or what? Or don't you think it will come to that?
That depends. But I will tell you this: The initiation of violence will made by the jackbooted government thugs. Be looking forward to false flag operations which will be used to demonize anyone and everyone who's against what the government wants.
Gottaliv wrote:
I reckon it will, and you know the reasons I say that... but (only) sometimes it's better to lose a little than to lose the lot. I know you won't agree but there are so many influential people pushing the buttons, how can you fight them all without it becoming a blood-bath and still retain your rights?
Once again: You speak to me as though I were an American, and I'm not.
Next, American liberty wasn't won without a fight, loss of blood and life. Many lost everything in that fight, but they knew that that would likely happen. Therefore they had no pretensions: If they didn't fight, they would have lost the most precious thing any human may possess: Individual liberty. So, they fought, and fought, and fought. Then they won.
In this life, There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TANSTAAFL). There's a price attached to everything, even when you think there isn't.
Gottaliv wrote:
That link you posted, you're lucky you've got people switched on enough to know and show the 'facts'... over here, if anyone dared do that they'd be branded total nut cases.
Better to be 'branded' a nutcase, and be telling the truth, than to sit in the corner, and be silenced.
Gottaliv wrote:
Have you even seen this video?
"father robbie parker laughing before his speech"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =aCqOMdcutWQXX
People are saying "actor"... but that child's father would be known in Newtown, so then how can it be an "actor"???- re the "crisis actors" in your link.
But - he is laughing before his speech, and then he goes almost immediately into overdrive with the emotions and tears... and he doesn't sound all that convincing to me either... it was only a couple of days after the shooting also...???????
Well, as you aptly point out, he's acting.
How is it that a grieving father, who's about to address the untimely death of his child, happens to be smiling or laughing just moments prior to his addressing the matter, is quite beyond the pale.
Hell, he doesn't even breakout in tears.
And what the hell is doing discussing the matter in public anyway? Why isn't he home with his family mourning, instead of shilling for the powers that be?
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#95703 Jan 13, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a posibility that anyone can beome a criminal, it just depends on what pushes them over the edge, and how easily they can get a gun...So the answer is Yes!
So there were no criminals before guns? So there are no criminals in places that ban guns?
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#95704 Jan 13, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
In this particular instance, I believe his selection of weaponry altered his "intent"... Dramatically.
Do you truly believe it didn't?
He selected the weapon for exactly it's "intended" purpose.
To believe otherwise is to fool yourself and rationalize the carnage.
I'm not in any way rationalizing the carnage. I have a problem comprehending the evil mind that could perpetrate such carnage. If you want to blame anyone, blame the careless mom who, while attempting to seek mental help for this psychotic lunatic, left weapons laying around the house. He also brought two pistols, don't forget. He had a psychotic intent, the choice of weapons is what was available to carry out that intent. If there were shotguns laying around the house and available, he would have used them.

The system makes it very difficult for anyone to force an adult to get mental help.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#95705 Jan 13, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
The ridiculousness of your comments are obvious...ei: hypothetical....if all massacres have occurred by those with mental illness how many more of those law abiding citizens who are mentally ill or know someone who is mentally ill with the ability to snap and go postal, have access to a gun in their homes...With guns in America running at over 280 million per 310 million people since the last masacre, there would be thousands upong thousands....So hypothetically what do YOU believe could be done to source those individuals and remove the danger to the community....eh Pacha!
In the history and modern day governments were responsible for millions more massacres than guns in the hands of citizens. Logic says ban governments and issue citizens guns to protect from these murdering governments.
Dr Freud

UK

#95706 Jan 13, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
Cut the crap...
I do so tire of your endless, superlative babble.
--AND
Won't be drawn into your freakish, altered sense of reality...
Today
Yeah, understood: YOU are intellectually DISARMED.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#95707 Jan 13, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder... what wonderfully warm solace, your callous analysis of cause and effect must give to the families of the 20 children and 6 adults, slaughtered at Sandy Hook elementary school.
Each... Shot multiple times.
In short order...
--AND
Rapid succession.
--FOR
God only knows, one bullet isn't enough for the tiny skull of a 6 year old child.
Sickening
The same place children killed by their own parents are. The same place children killed in their parents cars are. The same place children in their own home are poisoned, drowned, smothered, ect. ect. You don't give a crap about dead children, you just use them for your own agenda.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#95708 Jan 13, 2013
Ski wrote:
For some reason the liberals in the United States seems to have lost sight of the true meaning behind the 2nd ammendment to the US Constitution. They have to warped idea that it means we as citizens can have firearms to hunt with but nothing more.

The ability of the citizens of the United States to protect itself from it's government makes this country great. I do not desire to be like the UK or Australia. I do not desire to have the government tell me if it will allow me to protect myself and my family. I do not desire to have the government decide if it will allow me to protect myself and my family from the government. The founding fathers of untry sire this either.
The government of the United States are employed by the citizens of the United States. We are not subject to the government. The government is subject to the citizens. Sadly our government has lost sight of this and too many of my liberal leaning citizens have also. We need to treasure all of the rights our founding fathers gave us and fight to protect them. Even those that we may not agree with for those may eventually be the rights that save us from tyranny.
If you people in the USA fear you are going to have a government, which allegedly is made up of you people from the USA, take you over, if you are not armed, then perhaps you should get a better form of government. How much freedom is 90 million people owning handguns, if that is the figure, going to buy if the army decides to take over? I suspect the first thing it would buy is a box in the ground.

I was a gun owner and lived with guns in my home for most of my life, but those guns were never there to protect me or others from other humans. There intent was to use for hunting, possibly to shoot wild animals that might be harming our lifestock, and occasionally to put down a sick pet or livestock. A little over ten years ago the government here decided to start registering people's guns. That went on until very recently when the current government overturned that. Now, unless it has been settled, they are debating about destroying the records they already have.

I gave up some guns I had which were basicallly antiques, as my dad had them when I was young and they were old guns at that time, and I had brought them to my home after my father died, as my mother had no use for them. I gave them up because my father had registered them just before he died, and the government was updating the registry and I had the guns but they were not registered to me, so I gave them to a nephew who is a hunter, has the necessary permits, and also is in the armed forces of Canada, and he registered them in his name.

I had given up my own hunting guns a few years before that, because living in the city didn't provide much of an opportunity to hunt, and I never wanted to take my vacation time to go back to my birthplace where several family members hunt every year, in season.

I personally am not comfortable with the idea that someone walking down the street may be carrying a gun on him, or someone may come to the door with a gun if I knock on someone's door asking to use their phone to call for a tow truck, if my car has broken down. I realize that is a rare occasion but there have been shootings in those types of cases in the USA.

My biggest problem with the USA gun laws is the USA gun mentality, which extends into its having to always have a war going on somewhere so it can keep its fighting men employed, and try out the most up to date weapons. That also does happen and it happens frequently. In fact it has been ongoing throughout all of my lfie, and I am 66.
Dr Freud

UK

#95709 Jan 13, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not in any way rationalizing the carnage. I have a problem comprehending the evil mind that could perpetrate such carnage. If you want to blame anyone, blame the careless mom who, while attempting to seek mental help for this psychotic lunatic, left weapons laying around the house. He also brought two pistols, don't forget. He had a psychotic intent, the choice of weapons is what was available to carry out that intent. If there were shotguns laying around the house and available, he would have used them.
The system makes it very difficult for anyone to force an adult to get mental help.
Regarding Adam Lanza: I caution you about believing anything you read about him.
Hell, the MSM even published that his older brother who lives and works in New Jersey, was involved in the Sandy Hook shootings.
I have to tell you: This whole situation STINKS to high blue Heaven.
The official story has changed so many times that it is now TOTALLY unbelievable.
Question: WHY has there been NO mention in the MSM about the other shooters who were arrested on that day?
WHY is Adam Lanza being spoken of as having acted alone?
Look GO HERE, and READ what's NOT BEING MENTIONED!
http://theintelhub.com/2013/01/12/sandy-hook-...
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#95710 Jan 13, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
In this particular instance, I believe his selection of weaponry altered his "intent"... Dramatically.
Do you truly believe it didn't?
He selected the weapon for exactly it's "intended" purpose.
To believe otherwise is to fool yourself and rationalize the carnage.
Do you care to explain how the millions of children were slaughtered before guns all through history? You are an idiot and a very sick person. Thankfully the rest of us are not.

“" BITE ME "”

Since: Dec 10

Olney township

#95711 Jan 13, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not in any way rationalizing the carnage. I have a problem comprehending the evil mind that could perpetrate such carnage. If you want to blame anyone, blame the careless mom who, while attempting to seek mental help for this psychotic lunatic, left weapons laying around the house. He also brought two pistols, don't forget. He had a psychotic intent, the choice of weapons is what was available to carry out that intent. If there were shotguns laying around the house and available, he would have used them.
The system makes it very difficult for anyone to force an adult to get mental help.
His intent was to exact revenge upon the community for the pain he felt.

He chose the weapon that would best produce the sorrow in others, he felt himself.

I'm not so blinded by my position as to seek blame in the weapon or anyone aside from the perpetrator.

--YET

As so often happens, time and time again...

A normally "law abiding" citizen proved fatally irresponsible with regard to a tactical weapon...

Again.
Dr Freud

UK

#95712 Jan 13, 2013
Go here too:
Videos: More Than One Shooter Involved At Elementary School Massacre, Sandy Hook In Batman Dark Knight Rises Movie,
http://beforeitsnews.com/watercooler-topics/2...
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#95713 Jan 13, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
If you people in the USA fear you are going to have a government, which allegedly is made up of you people from the USA, take you over, if you are not armed, then perhaps you should get a better form of government. How much freedom is 90 million people owning handguns, if that is the figure, going to buy if the army decides to take over? I suspect the first thing it would buy is a box in the ground.
I was a gun owner and lived with guns in my home for most of my life, but those guns were never there to protect me or others from other humans. There intent was to use for hunting, possibly to shoot wild animals that might be harming our lifestock, and occasionally to put down a sick pet or livestock. A little over ten years ago the government here decided to start registering people's guns. That went on until very recently when the current government overturned that. Now, unless it has been settled, they are debating about destroying the records they already have.
I gave up some guns I had which were basicallly antiques, as my dad had them when I was young and they were old guns at that time, and I had brought them to my home after my father died, as my mother had no use for them. I gave them up because my father had registered them just before he died, and the government was updating the registry and I had the guns but they were not registered to me, so I gave them to a nephew who is a hunter, has the necessary permits, and also is in the armed forces of Canada, and he registered them in his name.
I had given up my own hunting guns a few years before that, because living in the city didn't provide much of an opportunity to hunt, and I never wanted to take my vacation time to go back to my birthplace where several family members hunt every year, in season.
I personally am not comfortable with the idea that someone walking down the street may be carrying a gun on him, or someone may come to the door with a gun if I knock on someone's door asking to use their phone to call for a tow truck, if my car has broken down. I realize that is a rare occasion but there have been shootings in those types of cases in the USA.
My biggest problem with the USA gun laws is the USA gun mentality, which extends into its having to always have a war going on somewhere so it can keep its fighting men employed, and try out the most up to date weapons. That also does happen and it happens frequently. In fact it has been ongoing throughout all of my lfie, and I am 66.
All governments are just one dictator away from being oppressive. Our government of the people is kept that way by the citizens having guns. Why would you fear a neighbor having a gun? When you owned a gun did it suddenly make you want to go kill people? I own many and have never had even one control my mental capacity.

“" BITE ME "”

Since: Dec 10

Olney township

#95714 Jan 13, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Do you care to explain how the millions of children were slaughtered before guns all through history? You are an idiot and a very sick person. Thankfully the rest of us are not.
Tray,

You're the last person who should comparatively size brain pans, with anyone.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#95715 Jan 13, 2013
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
Regarding Adam Lanza: I caution you about believing anything you read about him.
Hell, the MSM even published that his older brother who lives and works in New Jersey, was involved in the Sandy Hook shootings.
I have to tell you: This whole situation STINKS to high blue Heaven.
The official story has changed so many times that it is now TOTALLY unbelievable.
Question: WHY has there been NO mention in the MSM about the other shooters who were arrested on that day?
WHY is Adam Lanza being spoken of as having acted alone?
Look GO HERE, and READ what's NOT BEING MENTIONED!
http://theintelhub.com/2013/01/12/sandy-hook-...
The police often train with scenarios. Since Columbine, they've trained in school scenarios, over and above bank robberies, hostage situations, and more. I don't see a problem with a coincidence happening.

A lot of this misinformation is simply the press talking to people who don't have a clue as to what was going on in the interest of being the first with the news. I usually give a story a couple of days for the BS to get sorted out.

I would, however, like to know who this person they found in the woods wearing camouflage clothing was. I never heard any more about that.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#95716 Jan 13, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
His intent was to exact revenge upon the community for the pain he felt.
He chose the weapon that would best produce the sorrow in others, he felt himself.
I'm not so blinded by my position as to seek blame in the weapon or anyone aside from the perpetrator.
--YET
As so often happens, time and time again...
A normally "law abiding" citizen proved fatally irresponsible with regard to a tactical weapon...
Again.
Had that weapon not been available to him it is your claim he would not have killed? How about a bomb? Let's say WalMart sold bombs and machine guns would he have chosen one of those instead of a semi auto rifle? See you limit this to guns showing your true intent of attacking gun owners instead of the criminal. Had the gun not been available a criminal just adapts a new weapon. Humans are very resourceful. We have created weapons for thousands of years and you demanding the banning of one would just spawn the creation of new and probably better ways to kill. Spend a little time in a war zone or prison and see the weapons created by those with no access to guns or very little resources. IMPROVISED weapons abound and even under lock and key and 24/7 guards, criminals still make weapons and still kill. Banning guns simply makes for easy victims.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#95717 Jan 13, 2013
Why is the USA the only high income democracy that needs armed guards at schools?

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Because of gunnuts.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#95718 Jan 13, 2013
Empathica wrote:
<quoted text>
Tray,
You're the last person who should comparatively size brain pans, with anyone.
Oh great come back. Insult instead of fact. Sign of low I.Q. and a lost debate.

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