It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103311 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Tray

New Albany, MS

#83740 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
I think with the new evidence provided show of an altercation though it doesn't clear Zimmerman of second degree murder...because like Dunn they were the people that provoked the issue in the first place. The stand your ground law is wearing a bit thin...with predominantly white perps, attacking black or hispanics and saying it was because they felt threatened, when it was them that caused the threat in the first place. I think Zimmerman thought he was a tough guy and tried it on with this kid, because he lived in the community and he felt the need to play policeman, the kid took issue to this and an altercation occurred and Zimmeran shot the kid in cold blood because all of a sudden he wasn't the tough guy and longer...just some idiot who thought he had the right to challenge another unarmed black kid daring to be in his community....He is a murderer plain and simple.
From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[55] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[88][89][90] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[91] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood. In one case a woman with an infant hid in an upstairs room until the police arrived and scared away the intruders, who had already entered her home and disconnected the television.[52]
Tray

New Albany, MS

#83741 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
The photo of his bloody head.....which is new to me, probably did it himself after he shot the kid and before the cops arrived, that is why it wasn't produced sooner!
In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator, according to Wendy Dorival, Neighborhood Watch organizer for the Sanford Police Department.[5][92] Zimmerman "once caught a thief and an arrest was made...He helped solve a lot of crimes," said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association.[55]

Three weeks prior to the shooting, on February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called police to report a young man peering into the windows of an empty Twin Lakes home. Zimmerman was told a police car was on the way, and he followed protocol, awaiting their arrival. By the time police arrived, the suspect had fled. On February 6, 2012, workers witnessed two young black men lingering in the yard of a Twin Lakes resident around the same time her home was burglarized. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. The next day police discovered the stolen laptop in the backpack of a young black man, which led to his arrest. Zimmerman identified this young man as the same person he had spotted peering into windows on February 2.[52]

Zimmerman had been licensed to carry a firearm since November 2009. In response to Zimmerman's multiple reports regarding a loose pit bull in the Twin Lakes neighborhood, a Seminole County Animal Services officer advised Zimmerman to "get a gun" rather than rely on pepper spray to fend off the pit bull, which on one occasion had cornered his wife.[52] Although neighborhood watch volunteers are not encouraged to carry weapons, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee acknowledged that Zimmerman had a legal right to carry his firearm on the night of the shooting.[55]
Tray

New Albany, MS

#83742 Dec 5, 2012
On March 16, Serino told the Orlando Sentinel that his investigation had turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account, that he had acted in self-defense. "The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event, everything I have is adding up to what he says."[132]

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#83743 Dec 5, 2012
Republican Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
That firearm saved his life Ahomana, that so called kid had no intentions of stopping till he was dead. So in other words Ahomana, there is no point on calling for the Police when you are dead or a Vegetable for the rest of your life. By the way-Zimmerman is half White and hispanic. More red x, Blue light bulbs and funny Icon this time for you. Interesting how you roll Aho.
That is pure speculation on your part, the kid lost his life because this guy wanted to be a bossy boots...if he had a problem with the kid he could have called the police...his life wasn't in danger .....his actions alone put his life in danger....so if the kid had of beat him to a pulp it would have been his own fault.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#83744 Dec 5, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text>
From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[55] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[88][89][90] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[91] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood. In one case a woman with an infant hid in an upstairs room until the police arrived and scared away the intruders, who had already entered her home and disconnected the television.[52]
This alone tells me that the residents of this area were on high alert that they were stressed and looking at everyone that entered their area as suspicious in other words they had become paranoid and Zimmerman more than most and on that iformation alone you would have to believe that he wasn't in his right state of mind...and if he queried someone who was visiting a friend in the area they would have taken exception to being percieved as a threat and then to have someone that had no right to stop him or question why he was there, do so.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#83745 Dec 5, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator, according to Wendy Dorival, Neighborhood Watch organizer for the Sanford Police Department.[5][92] Zimmerman "once caught a thief and an arrest was made...He helped solve a lot of crimes," said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association.[55]
Three weeks prior to the shooting, on February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called police to report a young man peering into the windows of an empty Twin Lakes home. Zimmerman was told a police car was on the way, and he followed protocol, awaiting their arrival. By the time police arrived, the suspect had fled. On February 6, 2012, workers witnessed two young black men lingering in the yard of a Twin Lakes resident around the same time her home was burglarized. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. The next day police discovered the stolen laptop in the backpack of a young black man, which led to his arrest. Zimmerman identified this young man as the same person he had spotted peering into windows on February 2.[52]
Zimmerman had been licensed to carry a firearm since November 2009. In response to Zimmerman's multiple reports regarding a loose pit bull in the Twin Lakes neighborhood, a Seminole County Animal Services officer advised Zimmerman to "get a gun" rather than rely on pepper spray to fend off the pit bull, which on one occasion had cornered his wife.[52] Although neighborhood watch volunteers are not encouraged to carry weapons, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee acknowledged that Zimmerman had a legal right to carry his firearm on the night of the shooting.[55]
It sounds to me you are saying you understand why Zimmerman thought the black kid was up to no good because of a report a lady made before her stuff was stolen that she had seen a couple of black kids hanging around, then later on the cops found a lap top in the back pack of a black kid.......So every black kid in the area should have been presumed a threat......sounds an awful lot like assumtions to me.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#83746 Dec 5, 2012
spider1954 wrote:
<quoted text>
Which witch is which.
Most folks make errors with grammar from time to time, how would you spell Shakspeer
And you gun owning nuts pick every one up for it. so it is good to see your mate that you are suckholeing for getting a little of his own back...yes I have been on the recieving end, so I am enjoying watching this dick squirm...poetic justice I call it.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#83747 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
That is pure speculation on your part, the kid lost his life because this guy wanted to be a bossy boots...if he had a problem with the kid he could have called the police...his life wasn't in danger .....his actions alone put his life in danger....so if the kid had of beat him to a pulp it would have been his own fault.
1. That kid?, one more year he would be a adult. His not 7 years old you know, but a Teenager with less than 12 Months away from been a adult

2. Why are you bringing the race thing into this Thread for?. It's nearly as pathetic as Obama going on TV saying if he had a son he want's his son to look like Trayvon Martin. I wonder if Trayvon was White, Asian or Indian if he would say the same thing?. The answer is NO.

3. George was trying to protect others and do the right thing and has the ball's to make everyone who lives in that Neighbourhood his personal responsibility.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#83748 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
That is pure speculation on your part, the kid lost his life because this guy wanted to be a bossy boots...if he had a problem with the kid he could have called the police...his life wasn't in danger .....his actions alone put his life in danger....so if the kid had of beat him to a pulp it would have been his own fault.
You make the claim that Zimmerman lacerated his own head, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up, and then you have the audacity to accuse someone else of speculating??? Hypocrite much?

Martin is dead because he decided to go to blows with someone who was prepared to defend their own life from a violent attack. Sucks to be Martin.

Since: Feb 11

Sutton, UK

#83749 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
That is pure speculation on your part, the kid lost his life because this guy wanted to be a bossy boots...if he had a problem with the kid he could have called the police...his life wasn't in danger .....his actions alone put his life in danger....so if the kid had of beat him to a pulp it would have been his own fault.
KID,, in the eyes of the law only. If you want insight into what KIDS can be capable of look up the James Bulger case, he didnt own a phone, could not own a gun, could not defend himself. Trying to use age as some sort of defence or excuse does'nt wash.

Since: Feb 11

Sutton, UK

#83750 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
And you gun owning nuts pick every one up for it. so it is good to see your mate that you are suckholeing for getting a little of his own back...yes I have been on the recieving end, so I am enjoying watching this dick squirm...poetic justice I call it.
Just trying to help you with a reduction in appearing petty or stupid pet, You do'nt want it, be my guest, go ahead and enjoy.
X Obama Supporter

Coffeyville, KS

#83751 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
And you gun owning nuts pick every one up for it. so it is good to see your mate that you are suckholeing for getting a little of his own back...yes I have been on the recieving end, so I am enjoying watching this dick squirm...poetic justice I call it.
I do hope you aren't talking about me, I've never exactly been referred to as a "dick" before and I certainly am not "squirming" because you pointed out a typo. How exactly am I "getting a little of my own back"? Wouldn't I have had to dish some out first? Would you like to go back and find where I have corrected you or anyone else on this forum on their spelling or for the occasional typo? If not then I will assume you managed to figure out that I have not so that would make your attempt at "giving me a little of my own back" yet another epic fail on your part.
I won't ask about you being on the "receiving end" before, I think I can understand that without you getting into details. By the way, it's RECEIVING, you know, i before e except after c and all that jazz.
Are you squirming now.....DICK?
Poetic justice indeed.
X Obama Supporter

Coffeyville, KS

#83752 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
That is pure speculation on your part, the kid lost his life because this guy wanted to be a bossy boots...if he had a problem with the kid he could have called the police...his life wasn't in danger .....his actions alone put his life in danger....so if the kid had of beat him to a pulp it would have been his own fault.
"bossy boots"

I just had to type it myself to see if it was just as funny as reading it was......yep it was!!!
Tray

New Albany, MS

#83753 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
This alone tells me that the residents of this area were on high alert that they were stressed and looking at everyone that entered their area as suspicious in other words they had become paranoid and Zimmerman more than most and on that iformation alone you would have to believe that he wasn't in his right state of mind...and if he queried someone who was visiting a friend in the area they would have taken exception to being percieved as a threat and then to have someone that had no right to stop him or question why he was there, do so.
You can't read? Zimmerman broke no law. 408 calls from residents, what else did you expect them to do? George was not the only member of the neighborhood watch. They were tired of the crime rate that police could not stop.
Tray

New Albany, MS

#83754 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
It sounds to me you are saying you understand why Zimmerman thought the black kid was up to no good because of a report a lady made before her stuff was stolen that she had seen a couple of black kids hanging around, then later on the cops found a lap top in the back pack of a black kid.......So every black kid in the area should have been presumed a threat......sounds an awful lot like assumtions to me.
George had nothing to do with what color persons were committing the crimes. You forget the laptop and jewelry was stolen by minors. Trayvon himself had been caught with stolen jewelry and drugs. What assumptions, these are facts your quote is assumption. Your constant attempt to fall back on the race card (which has been PROVEN to be a lie) shows desperation.
Tray

New Albany, MS

#83755 Dec 5, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
And you gun owning nuts pick every one up for it. so it is good to see your mate that you are suckholeing for getting a little of his own back...yes I have been on the recieving end, so I am enjoying watching this dick squirm...poetic justice I call it.
And when he walks and becomes rich from suing the race baiters then what are you going to do? When armed self defense is proven to be effective and a right and the thugs become fair game then what? Will you cry under your bed?
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#83757 Dec 5, 2012
X Obama Supporter wrote:
<quoted text>
I do hope you aren't talking about me, I've never exactly been referred to as a "dick" before and I certainly am not "squirming" because you pointed out a typo. How exactly am I "getting a little of my own back"? Wouldn't I have had to dish some out first? Would you like to go back and find where I have corrected you or anyone else on this forum on their spelling or for the occasional typo? If not then I will assume you managed to figure out that I have not so that would make your attempt at "giving me a little of my own back" yet another epic fail on your part.
I won't ask about you being on the "receiving end" before, I think I can understand that without you getting into details. By the way, it's RECEIVING, you know, i before e except after c and all that jazz.
Are you squirming now.....DICK?
Poetic justice indeed.
Well!
Ms X certainly sounds like one-of-the-boys! Talk about the Three Faces of Eve!

Waiting for a reply to my post.

Your brain must be working overtime to figure out what you are going to right.

Most satisfying!

Guppy
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#83758 Dec 5, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> And when he walks and becomes rich from suing the race baiters then what are you going to do? When armed self defense is proven to be effective and a right and the thugs become fair game then what? Will you cry under your bed?
Excuse me for intruding, but...Zimmerman will not walk. If he did, all hell would break loose. It would not be a pretty sight. The Reverend, Jesse etc. would go ballistic.
Sorry for interrupting.
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#83759 Dec 5, 2012
Didn't know Austrailians had so much common sense. No one is allowed to have an AK-47? That should be the law here, too.
What is wrong with Americans?
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#83760 Dec 5, 2012
Why is there a flurry of activity in the middle of the night?

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