It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103311 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67574 May 18, 2012
Don-N-Kansas wrote:
More new information being released - leaked...
ABC News: "Trayvon Martin Had Drugs in System, Autopsy Found"
QUOTE:"The autopsy report shows traces of the drug THC, which is found in marijuana, in Martin's blood and urine.
The autopsy also shows that Zimmerman shot Martin from a distance of between 1 inch and 18 inches away, bolstering Zimmerman's claim that he shot Martin during a struggle that landed Zimmerman on his back, Martin straddling him and banging Zimmerman's head on the ground."END QUOTE
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-docum...
*I'm not sure how the "autopsy report" would positively substantiate Zimmerman's claim that he was on his back with Martin "straddling him and banging his head on the ground,"...
but it would certainly seem to substantiate Martin and Zimmerman were less than an arms length away (for each of them) when the shot was fired.
The autopsy shows the angle of bullet entry. If Z was standing when he fired, the wound entry would show that. Since we know from the witness that Z was on the ground, and the thug was standing, this verifies that.

Too bad evidence like this cannot pierce the blanket of stupidity that TM, Bunny and provok have around their heads.

Stick around. They get more bizarre with their delusions.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67575 May 18, 2012
Provocateur wrote:
<quoted text>
So now MSNBC isn't a credible referral. What's the matter you couldn't find any links from Faux, the John Birch Society or the Klan. You're a funny little troll. The name is different but the stench is the same.
George Zimmerman profiled, stalked, chased, confronted and killed the unarmed Martin. If anyone was Standing Their Ground it was Trayvon Martin.
No, they are not, dumbass.

They got caught editing the Obama rally tapes to prove white racism. Unfortunately, the guy they kept showing with the AR 15 strapped to his back was a BLACK MAN, you thuindering moron.

No, they are nto credible. Neither is NBC. They fired a producer for editing the 911 tape to prove Z was racist.

Jesus but you are getting more stupid each day.

I suspect overexposure to MSNBC and NBC.

Try CBS, they at least try to remove their liberal bias.

WHy do you think your delusions are opinons?

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67576 May 18, 2012
Provocateur wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you even know WTF you're talking about? Go back to your porno site.
Hell, I know wtf you are "trying" to talk about. You delusions of significance are pathetic, you have no idea what a fact is and fear them, you dream up scenarios (or conjure them up with MSNBC) and quickly believe them to be truth.

Just pathetic.

Why are idiots like you allowed to vote??

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67577 May 18, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
"A 15-year-old who fatally stabbed his school mate will no longer face criminal prosecution.
A judge’s ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law. The State Attorney’s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling.
Nuno’s family and friends criticized Collier County Circuit Judge Lauren Brodie’s decision, calling it “unbelievable” and “heartbreaking.”
“We know this wasn’t the right decision,” said Dylan’s aunt, Adriana Nuno.“(The judge) is showing those kids it’s OK to get away with murder.”
Saavedra, who was 14 at the time of the stabbing, was charged as a juvenile. If found guilty, the former Palmetto Ridge High student would have been released by the age of 21."
Was there one of these hearings for George?
That was trayvons hearing, idiot.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67578 May 18, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
There really should be a formal sport called throwing bullets.
It would be like throwing javelins but with much closer targets.
It's called slinging lead, numbnuts.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67579 May 18, 2012
Provocateur wrote:
<quoted text>
“I believe everyody in the world should have guns. Citizens should have bazookas and rocket launchers too. I believe that all citizens should have their weapons of choice. However, I also believe that only I should have the ammunition. Because frankly, I wouldn't trust the rest of the goobers with anything more dangerous than string.” Scott Adams
Jesus H Christ, you can't even get cartoons correct.

My God man, why are you so stupid.

Dogbert said that. And Scott Adams has warned us that many little pissants like you have written him to agree with his opinion.

He stated in his book that Dogberts opinions rarely reflect his, and that he keeps it that way because of dumbasses like you.

It is in his guide to defective people. You fit right in.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67580 May 18, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
He was the one going out to investigate. How did he get jumped? How did he end up without a concussion? He was getting his head bashed on the ground and ended up without stitches or a concussion. Head injuries bleed.
He should have stayed home and shared a pizza and beer with his little gun.
My God man, can you get any more ignorant.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/432...

Or stupid. I cannot tell with you.

hey, I notice that anytime I post a reference you ignore that post.
same with the other idiots, provok and tm. at least bunny tries to psot a referenece, though she is pathetic at it.
I suspect because you are to stupid to even try a rebuttle.

If you want, we can just insult each other. I do not need references to prove your simian ancestry.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67581 May 18, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>
He didn't even need medical treatment:)
He decided to go the "next day"...lol
How DEADLY could the beating have been, with not even ONE stitch, and a NEXT DAY visit to the hospital...conveniently:)
"The Martin family lawyer Benjamin Crump said in a statement: "How bad could it have been if they didn't take him to the hospital [and] didn't stitch him up" They didn't even put a band aid on it!
OUCH!
This is what the law and your LINK actually says:
The Stand your Ground Law (1) does not apply if:
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force
In FACT, after reading the link and LAW , I am even MORE convinced Trayvon was standing his ground!
Jane you ignorant slut.

He refused medical treatment.

Like you refuse psychiatrict treatment.

Just because it is needed is no reason to MAKE someone receive treatment.

God knows your poor husband would love to make you get treatment.

But this country protects even idiots like you from the straight jacket.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#67582 May 18, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I love it when you resort to sexual innuendo when backed into a corner...I know it's your only defense, because you lack intelligence:)
*****HOWEVER...the stand your ground law was CLEAR!
...this is directly COPIED from the Florida stand your ground law. It shows the law DOES NOT apply if:
Stand your Ground Law (1) does not apply if:
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force.
PAY ATTENTION STUPID:
No one disagrees a fight ensued after Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin!
There is NO doubt that Zimmerman was on the losing end of the fight...he got knocked down and a broken nose...shit happens...especially in a a fight.
BUT, my point was how in "fear" of DEATH could Zimmerman have been in, with a mere punch to the nose, and not even a trip to the hospital (that night) or even ONE stitch?
"The Martin family has questions about the medical report, said Benjamin Crump, the family attorney.
The family has very strong positions about this >family< physician's report that was done the next day," Crump said.
"What we do know is on February 26, the ER personnel did not believe his injuries were significant enough for him to go to the hospital. They didn't even put a Band-Aid on his head. That's important."
"Let's not forget that Trayvon Martin was fighting a man with a 9-millimeter gun. We also have to remember that he didn't start this fight. George Zimmerman got out his car and pursued Trayvon Martin."
"On the night of the shooting, Zimmerman had called 911 to complain about a suspicious person in the neighborhood, according to authorities.
In the call, Zimmerman said he was following Martin after the teen started to run, prompting the dispatcher to tell him, "We don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman apparently disregarded that advice."
OUCH...chills:)
NOW...back into your cage!
um, that is not innuendo, that is plain old sexual insults, as in

Jane you ignorant slut.

But I find it interesting you are more mad at the reference you would spread your legs than the Chevy Chase quote. I guess you just like those rough boys.

PLus, if you were not so stupid, you would have listened to the 911 tape and heard Z obey the 911 dispatcher. The dispatcher believed he obeyed, and he is way smarter than you.
t clms

Canada

#67583 May 18, 2012
Privatize the Socialist army.

The private sector could wage war more efficiently. Drop Soldiers pay and forget about entitlements for hospital care after they get wounded. make sure they get a job quick. You don't want them lazing around in a vet hospital for months. That costs a lot of tax dollars.

A good private CEO would clean that all up. Plus most soldiers love shooting guns anyway. you could pay them minimum wage. Don't bother sending their wages to their wives. The wives should get a job when they are at war instead of sitting on their butts waiting for them to return.
More needy greedy...
NO MORE SOCIALIST MILITARY.. Get on that NRA

The government just caves in to unions and pays these guys too much..
Even the Republicans are Socialists.. get rid of them... Where is McCarthy?? You need him back to clean up America.
t clms

Canada

#67584 May 18, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you start getting your butt kicked in an argument and you bring up Saddam. Typical little liberal.
However, you do have a point. Just on your wittle head.
We went to Iraq so that Halliburton could make millions. Idiot!
Thank God stupid people like you are not allowed on juries. Since only evidence is allowed, and not your pathetic fantasies, Z will be acquited after the state of Fla wastes a few hundred thousand dollars.
you couldn't kick dust in the wind....

It is your butt that is bruised and whipped.

sorry to bring up Saddam.... I know it embarrasses you poor dummies.

You only wasted 3 trillions because you couldn't find Bin Laden.

Yes.. it worked well for Haliburton.. Part of the plan...

Obama found Bin Laden without hardly looking.

Z is a hero to you guys.. build a statue of him in marble in every shopping centre.. Kiss his butt when you walk by for good luck.. This is the new Red Neck lynching syndrome.

I won't grieve the next red neck who gets his butt shot off.. he/she deserves it. You are just looking to start trouble..

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#67585 May 18, 2012
Marauder wrote:
<quoted text>
"How did he get jumped?"
He lost him
"How did he end up without a concussion?"
He shot him before he killed him
"Head injuries bleed."
It did
"He should have stayed home and shared a pizza and beer with his little gun."
You should stay off mommy's computer and go back to the basement to play.
If your mummy could afford a computer you wouldn't have to spend your entire day at the public library. He did not have a concussion. He did not require medical care. He did not require stitches.

That was fighting?

He was jumped by the person he was following? Fat lot of good that gun did him.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#67586 May 18, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
It's called slinging lead, numbnuts.
Obviously no need for gun you mentally ill weirdo.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#67587 May 18, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus H Christ, you can't even get cartoons correct.
My God man, why are you so stupid.
Dogbert said that. And Scott Adams has warned us that many little pissants like you have written him to agree with his opinion.
He stated in his book that Dogberts opinions rarely reflect his, and that he keeps it that way because of dumbasses like you.
It is in his guide to defective people. You fit right in.
You are the expert in Dogbert. Cartoons are definitely your speed.

“Facts exist, even when ignored”

Since: Feb 07

Somewhere in Indiana

#67588 May 18, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the expert in Dogbert. Cartoons are definitely your speed.
Is that your equivalent of "I know you are but what am I"?
Bunny Rabbit

Lake Forest, CA

#67589 May 18, 2012
Hi guys!

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#67590 May 19, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<redacted quote>
Hey Don.
My theory is …
Theory is all well and good, but we must all remember we are speaking on a subject where one life has already been lost, and another hangs in the balance.

Still in the spirit of speculation, based solely on the facts as I understand them;

Martin was walking onto the property – Zimmerman was driving off of the property and spotted Martin acting “suspiciously”. Zimmerman being a member of the neighborhood watch observed Martin, called the police and gave a description of the person he observed.

Based on audio evidence Zimmerman began following Martin, the dispatcher told Zimmerman he; ‘didn’t need to do that’, later in the conversation the dispatcher asked Zimmerman what his address was. Zimmerman began to reply but stopped and said:

“I don’t want to give that out. I have no idea where this guy is.”

He then agreed to meet the responding officers at the “mailboxes”.

Now we go to the evidence from the “girlfriends” statements:

She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"

Then a man, presumably George Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?"

The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed {or punched someone,} because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.(At this point I feel perfectly content to add my speculation {in parentheses}, since the statement of the girlfriend, about who pushed whom, appears to be speculation on her part).

At some point a physical altercation occurred, from which Zimmerman wound up with a broken nose, cuts and scrapes on his face, two lacerations on the back of his head and miscellaneous other injuries according to police reports, Zimmerman’s doctor’s account and photographic evidence.

According to Martin’s autopsy results; Martin did not have any physical signs of being struck in fist fight, evidenced no defensive wounds, but did have abrasions on his knuckles which; “seems to be consistent”, according to the medical examiner, with a person who has been punching something.

At some time during this altercation Martin was shot by Zimmerman from an “intermediate distance” that could be anywhere from 3inches to 1.8feet away.

The police arrived shortly after the gunshot, and took Zimmerman into custody. EMTs determined Martin to be lifeless, treated Zimmerman and recommended he go to the hospital. Zimmerman refused medical treatment at that time.

He was arrested, taken to the police station, interviewed and investigators who wanted to charge him with manslaughter or negligent homicide.

The states attorney declined saying there wasn’t enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, so he was released.

And now we are where those events and decisions have brought us.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#67591 May 19, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<redacted quote>
WOW...you can't possible be that stupid?...
Stand your Ground Law (1) does not apply if:
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force….
Martin was NOT engaged in unlawful activity.
Martin had a RIGHT to be there.
...and it even says Martin had the RIGHT to meet force with force.
…
Hence: the murder charge:)
Bunny you appear to make many assumptions based on your personal opinion, but those opinions seem to have very little correlation with the "evidence" publically available. You also appear to be liberal with your insults and keep repeating the same answered and refuted points over and over.

You are correct that the stand your ground law does not apply IF:“a person engaged in unlawful activity”.

Now let me repeat there is no “evidence” as yet, that Zimmerman was engaged in illegal or “unlawful activity”.

Contrary to your opinion, following someone or even “pursuing” someone is not against the law, neither is it against the law for a civilian to “profile” another person.

Every statement you make about Martin – also apply to Zimmerman.

Martin was not engaged in unlawful activity – Neither was Zimmerman.

Martin had a right to be there – so did Zimmerman.

Martin had the right to meet “force with force”– so did Zimmerman.

THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART:

As for meeting “force with force”, so far as I know there is no proof of who threw the first punch, regardless of how people who weren’t there tend to claim one way or the other.

In my opinion, the charge of “murder” was a major mistake on the part of the State Prosecutor, and I’ll tell you why.
For the state to prove a murder charge, the onus (responsibility) is on the state to prove, Zimmerman had the purpose and intent of killing Martin, when he was pursuing him, even before the two of them ultimately met up.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#67592 May 19, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<redacted quote>
He didn't even need medical treatment:)
He decided to go the "next day"...lol…
"The Martin family lawyer Benjamin Crump said in a statement: "How bad could it have been if they didn't take him to the hospital [and] didn't stitch him up" They didn't even put a band aid on it!
…
The Stand your Ground Law (1) does not apply if:
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force
In FACT, after reading the link and LAW , I am even MORE convinced Trayvon was standing his ground!
Bunny I’m beginning to think you are hopeless… please prove me wrong.

Your first statement says he didn’t need medical treatment -
Your very next statement says he went to get medical treatment the next day.

The Martin family lawyer “SAID”…

First of all the Martin family lawyer isn’t a doctor, yet he seems to be pronouncing a medical prognosis, an area where it appears to have no more expertise than you do.

However, Benjamin Crump is a lawyer so he should know, according to the law, Zimmerman only had to; “FEAR DEATH” or “GREAT BODILY HARM” to be justified for using deadly force.

Zimmerman did not seem to be engaged in any "unlawful activity" according to facts and evidence that has so far been made public.

So there would be no preclusion to him using deadly force.

Finely, Here is a direct quote and a link to the Florida statute:

CHAPTER 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

QUOTE:

776.012 “…However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
&#8195;(1)He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;…”

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/Ch...

You can continue to argue against it all you wish… but there it is in black and white.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#67593 May 19, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
He was the one going out to investigate. How did he get jumped? How did he end up without a concussion? He was getting his head bashed on the ground and ended up without stitches or a concussion. Head injuries bleed.
He should have stayed home and shared a pizza and beer with his little gun.
Apparently you need to catch up on current events.

So far all the photos we've seen of Zimmerman after he got cleaned up. About a week ago they released photos of the back of Zimmerman's head showing it bloody. A few days ago they released the police reports and Dr's notes detailing Zimmerman's injuries and Yesterday they released photos of Zimmerman in a police car, before he was treated by the EMTs.

Might I suggest you begin with: http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-witne...

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