In America, atheists are still in the...

In America, atheists are still in the closet

There are 47707 comments on the Spiked story from Apr 11, 2012, titled In America, atheists are still in the closet. In it, Spiked reports that:

So do many other interest and identity groups. Complaint is our political lingua franca: it's what Occupiers, Tea Partiers, Wall Street titans, religious and irreligious people share.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Spiked.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#16092 Jun 13, 2012
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, free will and omniscience present no logical contradiction.
The free will choice causes the foreknowledge, not vice versa.
The opposite choice would cause the opposite foreknowledge, as the apparent paradox is due to the limited concept of forward time, as the omniscient entity is atemporal.
You need to define free will for us to decide if you're talking about what others are talking about. I'm pretty well convinced that free will as I define it is an illusion.

Worse, even if will is not determined by the brain or anything else, it would be pretty near impossible to demonstrate that will is free or uncaused.

And worse yet, free will means indeterminate will, and thus will that nobody can know in advance - nobody, not a god, and not even the self that apparently generated it.

Have you ever provided a definition of free will that would clearly distinguish it from other things that are NOT free will. or that would allow us to decide wither something in question qualified as free will?

Look at how I give lip service to the idea that you might do that, knowing full well that I will be the one to have to provide a definition of free will, including an operational definition.

My actual purpose here will be to show how you evade, in part with the deliberate choice to blur language and keep it indistinct. As chief obfuscator, your job will be to prevent a clear definition of free will - including a test - from emerging, so that you can continue to refer to free will as if it has definite properties, without having to say what those are.

Now, what is free will as you mean it?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#16093 Jun 13, 2012
TrueAtheist wrote:
For my fellow freethinkers in this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =mhO2wGLA79YXX
Atheism offers nothing to me,
it never has and never will,
it doesn't make me feel good or comfort me,
it's not there for me when I'm sick or ill,
it won't intervene in my times of need or protect me from hate,
it doesn't care if I fail or succeed,
it won't wipe the tears from my eyes,
it does nothing when I have no where to run,
it won't give me wise words or advice,
it has no teaches for me to learn,
it can't show me what's bad or nice,
it's never inspired or excited anyone,
it won't help me fulfill all my goals,
it won't tell me to stop when I'm having fun,
it's never saved one single soul,
it doesn't take credit for everything I achieve,
it won't make me get down on bended knee,
it doesn't demand that I have to believe,
it won't torture me for eternity,
it won't teach me to hate or despise others,
it won't tell me what's right or wrong,
it can't tell nobody not to be lovers,
it's told no one they don't belong,
it won't make you think life is worth living,
it has nothing to offer me, yeah, that's true,
but the reason Atheism offers me nothing is because I've never asked it to,
Atheism offers nothing because it doesn't need to,
Religion promises everything because you want it to,
You don't need a Religion or to have faith,
You just want it because you need to feel safe,
I want to feel reality and nothing more,
Atheism offers me everything,
but Religion has stolen before
Well said! Well said!

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#16094 Jun 13, 2012
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Why aren't you doing one of 'em?
Just what I was thinking.

He's neglecting the "better things," I guess for our benefit?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#16095 Jun 13, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to define free will for us to decide if you're talking about what others are talking about. I'm pretty well convinced that free will as I define it is an illusion.
Worse, even if will is not determined by the brain or anything else, it would be pretty near impossible to demonstrate that will is free or uncaused.
And worse yet, free will means indeterminate will, and thus will that nobody can know in advance - nobody, not a god, and not even the self that apparently generated it.
Have you ever provided a definition of free will that would clearly distinguish it from other things that are NOT free will. or that would allow us to decide wither something in question qualified as free will?
Look at how I give lip service to the idea that you might do that, knowing full well that I will be the one to have to provide a definition of free will, including an operational definition.
My actual purpose here will be to show how you evade, in part with the deliberate choice to blur language and keep it indistinct. As chief obfuscator, your job will be to prevent a clear definition of free will - including a test - from emerging, so that you can continue to refer to free will as if it has definite properties, without having to say what those are.
Now, what is free will as you mean it?
Did I tell you that Jonah Lehrer has a new book out? Best-seller.

You want it?

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#16096 Jun 13, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to define free will for us to decide if you're talking about what others are talking about. I'm pretty well convinced that free will as I define it is an illusion.
Worse, even if will is not determined by the brain or anything else, it would be pretty near impossible to demonstrate that will is free or uncaused.
And worse yet, free will means indeterminate will, and thus will that nobody can know in advance - nobody, not a god, and not even the self that apparently generated it.
Have you ever provided a definition of free will that would clearly distinguish it from other things that are NOT free will. or that would allow us to decide wither something in question qualified as free will?
Look at how I give lip service to the idea that you might do that, knowing full well that I will be the one to have to provide a definition of free will, including an operational definition.
My actual purpose here will be to show how you evade, in part with the deliberate choice to blur language and keep it indistinct. As chief obfuscator, your job will be to prevent a clear definition of free will - including a test - from emerging, so that you can continue to refer to free will as if it has definite properties, without having to say what those are.
Now, what is free will as you mean it?
Hahaha

I like this.

And now we wait.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#16097 Jun 13, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
NO one can reduce you
Least of all you, little man.

Since: May 12

Canoga Park, CA

#16098 Jun 13, 2012
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
Which freethinkers are you talking about?
I see a bunch of sheep.
The free thinkers who don't let an ancient book tell them what to think.

Since: May 12

Canoga Park, CA

#16099 Jun 13, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Outstanding.
Yours?
I wish I could claim it as my own, but no it's not mine. I found the youtube video a while back on a profile of an Arab Atheist. Believe it or not Atheism is growing trend in Muslim countries. But for the most part they hide who they are and live in fear. So when someone comes out like this and openly admits that they are an atheist, it's a big deal. The rest of the videos on the profile are in pharisee. I thought this was video.

Since: May 12

Canoga Park, CA

#16100 Jun 13, 2012
How many religions actually believe in eternal damnation? As far as I know it's 2, at least I think so, and that's Christianity and Muslim. I know Judaism doesn't and I don't think any others do, but can anyone confirm this?

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#16105 Jun 13, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning sweetie, did your mommy allow you out to play again? How nice of her.
Prophetic words from some weeks back....
Khatru wrote:
barefoot's raison d'etre is to disagree incessantly with as many people as he can cope with (it's a lot). For him, the endless argument over issues that nobody cares about except him is
everything. Facts count for little in barefoot's world and to him they are a minor irritant to his overriding objective of reducing any discussion to inane name-calling.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#16106 Jun 13, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I tell you that Jonah Lehrer has a new book out? Best-seller.
You want it?
No relation to the great Tom Lehrer?

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#16112 Jun 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Least of all you, little man.
A wee little man he is.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#16117 Jun 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that has internal logic in Islamic teachings then.
Are Jinn specifically mentioned in the Koran?
The Quran mentions the jinn in various chapters, and there is one chapter (Chapter 72) that discusses them specifically.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#16118 Jun 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I couldn't agree more - a fable to abuse children with.
So, in the Koran there is no hell, no eternal torture? Does Allah hate anyone in the Koran?
There is a hell, but the punishment is not eternal. It makes nno sense to punish someone eternally for a finite amount of wrongdoing in a finite amount of time.

The Koran mentions the type of people that are not in Allah's favour and will face punishment. Liars, trouble makers, hypocrites. I suppose if you want to call that hate, it is debatable.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#16119 Jun 13, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> On the other hand, someone who does not believe in God (or Gods) can do these very same things, knowing that both good and bad live within each human being.
One can be introspective without a God as well as with one.
Good people who are theists will use introspection correctly and become better people. Bad people will not.
Just because you come to a better place in life because of your belief in a God does not mean others cannot come to that same place without a belief in God. It is the indoctrinated point of view that one has to come to this place by only one viewpoint, and that viewpoint being a belief in a supernatural deity (no matter which deity it is).
Agreed. Whatever works for you. My religion happens to work for me, so I follow its principles and teachings. If you got something else or feel you don't need anything else, then good for you.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#16120 Jun 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Least of all you, little man.
Man????

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#16121 Jun 13, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> I'm guessing you think you are the only one who actually knows what these rituals, invented by men, mean.
I think you should give this some more thought.
I'm not the only one. I didn't figure any of it out on my own. I read books upon books about it, that's how I know.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#16122 Jun 14, 2012
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
What a tautology! God being omnipotent can create a predestined future which isn't really predestined because God is omnipotent. LOL. So what you are saying here is that not only does Christianity not have any objective proof of their claims, but you also don't even have any ontological arguments either, because reason is out the window. You've left yourself with nothing. Are you sure that's the way you want to go?
It is not logical to believe in a god that is perfectly logical to us. If one is to believe, it is only logical to believe in a god that goes beyond logic, because anything associated with infinity goes beyond logic. Logic can be used to a certain extent, but it can never be wholistically applied.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#16123 Jun 14, 2012
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not the only one. I didn't figure any of it out on my own. I read books upon books about it, that's how I know.
You read books that focused on one subject with a single minded presupposition. That's not much of a study.

“free your mind.”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#16124 Jun 14, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Double Fine cannot remember one Manchester United loss the ENTIRE season!
*Puts fingers in ears*
Lalalalalalala! I can't hear you!
Haha... selective memory..

I'm reasonable , i take more pleasure in the gains than the losses..
now who could forget the double victory of.. that team.. type of bun.. pleasant area of London... girl's name...

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