Hearing for children at polygamist retreat grinds to a halt

[Hannah Rebekah]

Ava Mae Lewis wrote:

<quoted text>

She said tonight that she was not all that opposed to polygamy...

I remember a conversation with Carol after reading a link about a former FLDS who said the same things and Carol agreed. I could go back and find that conversation if you would like?

[someone who cares]

Ava Mae Lewis wrote:

<quoted text>
Someone.... I thought we had agreed not to do personal attacks?

I'm not attacking you, Ava

[Hannah Rebekah]

And I didn't say I wan not all that opposed I said that they would probably not be able to get rid of it...big difference...and that is what Carol agreed to.

[Hannah Rebekah]

Ava Mae Lewis wrote:

<quoted text>
Someone.... I thought we had agreed not to do personal attacks?

Then please stop attacking me about my beliefs and trying to lump the LDS Church in with the FLDS. Please.

[Hannah Rebekah]

These are all letters from workers who saw things first hand with how CPS was dealing with the children and mothers. Very sad.

"The floor was literally slick with tears..."
Here are links to letters written by staff members from the Hill Country Community Mental Health-Mental Retardation Center, which provided assistance to FLDS women and children in San Angelo shelters in April. They are critical of conditions in the shelters and how child welfare workers treated the women and children.
# "This was a travesty."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "This situation was a tragedy."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "It was heartwrenching."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "Our roles bacame... confidant and a broker."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "That is a very good question."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "Ashamed of being a Texan."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "I often felt helpless."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "Vast amounts of hypocrisy."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "Even to be an observer was difficult."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "This incident... is not what America or Texas stands for."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

# "Even the simplest request was discounted."
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/s...

[Carol]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

<quoted text>
IMO-I see Polyamory just as wrong as polygamy.

There would be most - if not all, religious groups opposed to polyamory BUT polygamy attracts pedophiles and prophet wannabes.

Polygamy is only about sex - and for a select few and those few are all males.

[someone who cares]

Howie in Holland wrote:

Woah!! Hi Larry, Hannah, SWC's. Everyones in fine fingers tonight. I don't know about that hunt and peck kid, ya doing good! Been busy sending poison pen e-mail around Texas about those children. I take it so have others across the country.

Hey Howie,I've been throwing salvos in the heat of battle.
Not that I like it, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do, sometimes.Thanks for the vote of confidence on secret code name: hunt and peck.

[someone who cares]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

<quoted text>
Then please stop attacking me about my beliefs and trying to lump the LDS Church in with the FLDS. Please.

Agreed. You are right.

[Howie in Holland]

Carol wrote:

<quoted text>
There would be most - if not all, religious groups opposed to polyamory BUT polygamy attracts pedophiles and prophet wannabes.
Polygamy is only about sex - and for a select few and those few are all males.

and what of women whom like multi-pardners?

[Carol]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

<quoted text>
I remember a conversation with Carol after reading a link about a former FLDS who said the same things and Carol agreed. I could go back and find that conversation if you would like?

I said that I thought the difference between the FLDS and the LDS was polygamy - which I am opposed to adamantly in lieu of what I have learned from the case in Texas.

The LDS also appears not to be "cult-like" in nature nor does it have a destructive influence on society. Both men and women are - from what Hannah tells us - encouraged to pursue college degrees and personal interests. They are not a secret society - they are not behind barbed wire and anxiously awaiting the end of the world.

I am not opposed to polyamory - not for me - but, maybe in my next life - who knows.

[Hannah Rebekah]

Carol wrote:

<quoted text>
There would be most - if not all, religious groups opposed to polyamory BUT polygamy attracts pedophiles and prophet wannabes.
Polygamy is only about sex - and for a select few and those few are all males.

Pedophiles gravitate to all situations that put them in contact with children and teachers have the largest percentages as a group that have pedophiles. They are in every religion, pastor, minister, priest, boy scouts, baby sitters, coaches, professionals in counseling in medicine...they are everywhere. It is a problem everywhere. And if you go into the Christian polygamist sites they say that polyamory is just another variation on polygamy only they use marriage to justify what they are doing. And like SWC said all will be judged by God for the wrongs they do and any form can be corrupted and be wrong just like monogamous marriages can be abusive.

[someone who cares]

llw wrote:

<quoted text>
Just like you told ava you are in the LDS forum please have manner. HAH right there you can't even practice what you preach JUST PROVED MY POINT!
Thank you
have a nice day

And your point is?........

You are a self righteous fool!

You're no better than anybody else, but your delusions tell you otherwise.

[Carol]

Howie in Holland wrote:

<quoted text>
and what of women whom like multi-pardners?

There's nothing WRONG with having multi-partners - BUT the women of the polygamy do not - it is only the men who have multi-partners.

A tad unequal - wouldn't you say?

[Howie in Holland]

someone who cares wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Howie,I've been throwing salvos in the heat of battle.
Not that I like it, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do, sometimes.Thanks for the vote of confidence on secret code name: hunt and peck.

yea, it would seem that everyone has sharp teeth. They can't get at the real problem of the children in Texas so they chew on each other. Frustration! Helpless frustration! I have my anger too. I at least let Texas know I'm watching.

[Ava Mae Lewis]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

Ava,
One last thing...this is what the LDS believe in. Please take note of the 11th and 12th ones. If it was your religion that had its rights being violated I would be right there standing up for your constitutional rights as well...and that is a promise.
LDS Articles of Faith:
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Hannah!

WHY ARE YOU POSTING THE LDS ARTICLES OF FAITH ON THE FLDS HEARINGS BOARD?

[Ava Mae Lewis]

Howie in Holland wrote:

<quoted text>
and what of women whom like multi-pardners?

Rapid ejection...

A woman would not DARE have multiple partners in the old LDS Mormon Church, or the newer FLDS cult.

[Carol]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

# "This incident... is not what America or Texas stands for."

Well - we certainly do not stand for what the FDLS stands for.

All sad letters - BUT the people who are on these compounds KNOW that what they are doing is against the law SO - there is a price to pay. Although I myself am inclined to feel sympathy for all but the most vicious and hardened criminals in our society - I am not that moved. I also feel that they are pandering us. I am though VERY moved by Carolyn Jessop and the plight of the lost boys.

I'm sure most will get their kids back.

[Hannah Rebekah]

Carol wrote:

<quoted text>
There's nothing WRONG with having multi-partners - BUT the women of the polygamy do not - it is only the men who have multi-partners.
A tad unequal - wouldn't you say?

I won't judge your views to believe that way but I look at it differently. As one who sees the Bible and God as the authority I see it through that lens but like I said...its not for me to say about others and their beliefs. LDS don't believe in polygamy but it is in the Bible and has been sanctioned by God at different times for his own purposes but only to be done in righteousness the same with a monogamous marriage. And I pray it never comes back as I would never want to live it nor would I want to live with multiple partners. I couldn't handle that with my husband nor I doubt he with I so it's not for us. But to each their own.

[Howie in Holland]

Carol wrote:

<quoted text>
There's nothing WRONG with having multi-partners - BUT the women of the polygamy do not - it is only the men who have multi-partners.
A tad unequal - wouldn't you say?

No. No, not really, for the FLDS, that's their score. If a woman was married to multi-males is that not polygamy too? As far as wrong on having multi-pardners, not my life style. I always figured one woman was enough in my life, why would I want to confuse the issue. I'm a simple male, getting to know one female "well" to be a good pardner in life, good backup when need, there when need, was the true goal in a relationship. Now is multi-pardner really a good relationship, for ya jollies, maybe, how about trust? Even in yourself?

[Howie in Holland]

Ava Mae Lewis wrote:

<quoted text>
Rapid ejection...
A woman would not DARE have multiple partners in the old LDS Mormon Church, or the newer FLDS cult.

I might have taken her comment out of context in my answer. I had thought she ment we civilians.