Should the US have universal healthcare?

[KenGuy]

I can't believe 48% of you people said no to universal healthcare. You stupid war mongering Americans should focus more on your health, rather then on your army.

Those of you who think 50% of your income would be taken away for universal healthcare? Where did you get your education, Iraq?

With that being said, only proves how greedy most Americans are, you would rather pay thousands of dollars on your own medical bills then pay a very SMALL portion of your income to help the entire country, yourself included. Very sad.

And remember, you wouldn't have to deal with those no good sons of bitches health insurance companies, and live with some sorta fear of being rejected if the time finally came you developed an illnes.

There would be no setting apointments, or waiting for approval to see if a health insurance company "accepts" your health as it is. The simple case would be; if your an American citizen, your medical expenses are covered.

Yes, that's right moms you can have a child without paying some stupid doctor before you leave the hospital.

Alot of americans are very smart, but you're ALL blinded by greed.

[Cheech the Conservative]

If not for us "warmongering" americans,you panseys would be speakin' German,Japanese,or Russian now.And only about 6% of our GDP or GNP go to the military.But even if we had NO army,I couldn't see ME payin' for some lazy bastards HC just because "They Can't Afford It".If "They can't afford it" my answer is "to F---ing bad".Now,mind your own F---ing business.

KenGuy wrote:

I can't believe 48% of you people said no to universal healthcare. You stupid war mongering Americans should focus more on your health, rather then on your army.
Those of you who think 50% of your income would be taken away for universal healthcare? Where did you get your education, Iraq?
With that being said, only proves how greedy most Americans are, you would rather pay thousands of dollars on your own medical bills then pay a very SMALL portion of your income to help the entire country, yourself included. Very sad.
And remember, you wouldn't have to deal with those no good sons of bitches health insurance companies, and live with some sorta fear of being rejected if the time finally came you developed an illnes.
There would be no setting apointments, or waiting for approval to see if a health insurance company "accepts" your health as it is. The simple case would be; if your an American citizen, your medical expenses are covered.
Yes, that's right moms you can have a child without paying some stupid doctor before you leave the hospital.
Alot of americans are very smart, but you're ALL blinded by greed.

[Cheech the Conservative]

It would be longer and much older.Look up "Tammany Hall".The Chicago political machine was run by Al Capone.Kennedys old man usta run booze for the Cosa Nostra.In most big cities,you will find there are more Democrat votes then there are Democrat VOTERS.The Unions ALWAYS back DEMS.They are OWNED by organized crime.So let that moron bring out his list.His whole PARTY is corrupt.And always HAS been.

Raptor in Michigan wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm sure the democrat list of scandals would be just as long. The difference is I don't see Bush or Cheney on the list while I would see Bill Clinton on it. I'll leave it to someone else to come up with the democrat list as I am too busy to worry about it. BTW- I am not happy with either party right now.

[Captain Shipwreck]

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Dear fellow Escher fan,
Alas, but you cite only opinion with no correlating fact. To call everyone involved in the health care industry "corrupt", is inevitably a falsehood.
We all have the propensity and the ability to recognize that if properly structured and facilitated, UHC could actually save us money. We also have the propensity and the ability to recognize that this huge "if" has been non-existent in the history of our government. You included HMO's in your list of "corruption". HMO's are the product of a government-originated idea which was mandated during the Nixon administration. HMO's were the government's offering to save us money. Yessir! That sure worked.
Social Security is the biggest "success story" the government has to offer in the way of social programs. FDR promised it would cost 1% of the first $1400.00 of our earnings, it would be voluntary, contributions would be tax deductible, and annuity payments from it would never be taxed... like THAT ever happened!
In light of the facts, I am compelled to dismiss hypothetical musings (which would work wonderfully in a perfect world), and accept the fact that I am the most qualified person to disburse my assets and earnings in a manner that will best meet my personal and social obligations.

I appreciate the response that was absent of the usual retaliatory name calling and lack of open debate..which was really the point of my post in the first place.
I didn't call everyone in the health care industry corrupt. There's been many topics on this forum; Tom Delay says no health care crisis, Medicare costs triple, Americans plan medical vacations abroad, etc., on which I've posted several examples of fact, as have many other people. The folks I referred to in my earlier post inevitably would do nothing more than retaliate with abject unsubstantiated noise about how any proposed changes would affect their own taxes or lot in life. This is an open forum to which they are entitled to participate, but as for me..I resign myself from it.

[Raptor in Michigan]

KenGuy wrote:

I can't believe 48% of you people said no to universal healthcare. You stupid war mongering Americans should focus more on your health, rather then on your army.
Those of you who think 50% of your income would be taken away for universal healthcare? Where did you get your education, Iraq?
With that being said, only proves how greedy most Americans are, you would rather pay thousands of dollars on your own medical bills then pay a very SMALL portion of your income to help the entire country, yourself included. Very sad.
And remember, you wouldn't have to deal with those no good sons of bitches health insurance companies, and live with some sorta fear of being rejected if the time finally came you developed an illnes.
There would be no setting apointments, or waiting for approval to see if a health insurance company "accepts" your health as it is. The simple case would be; if your an American citizen, your medical expenses are covered.
Yes, that's right moms you can have a child without paying some stupid doctor before you leave the hospital.
Alot of americans are very smart, but you're ALL blinded by greed.

Alot of people do leave the hospital without paying the doctor. Problem is they never pay and then the rest of us are stuck with the bill. That's part of the reason HC is so expensive. And I don't want to pay for someone else to have a baby. If they're gonna screw around, many times out of wedlock, that's their problem. It's called personal responsibility.

And the main purpose of gov't is to provide security for the nation, not to attend to each individuals needs.

When people work hard for their money, they have every right to keep it. When did that become greed? And if you do the research, you will find the more money people have, the more they GIVE to those in need. But it has to come from the heart, not a gov't mandate which just causes resentment.

[Cheech the Conservative]

It is funny how these arrogant foreigners look down their noses at us.We,the USA,is the LIGHT of the WORLD.Burma,a country that hates us,recently had a catastrophe.Who was the first to respond?It sure wasn't Canada.And who PAYS for that aid?Us greedy folks who EARN.When Hitler was smashing Europe,who saved them?Shiver me timbers,it was us GREEDY Americans.When the Soviets were taking over Europe,who stopped them?Lo and behold,it was the USA.With our cowboy president,Ronald Reagan.But he was greedy,also.He cut entitlements.Whenever I hear the word greedy,I know I'm talking to a leech or a commie.Or a cowardly foreigner who is jealous of our freedom.

Raptor in Michigan wrote:

<quoted text>
Alot of people do leave the hospital without paying the doctor. Problem is they never pay and then the rest of us are stuck with the bill. That's part of the reason HC is so expensive. And I don't want to pay for someone else to have a baby. If they're gonna screw around, many times out of wedlock, that's their problem. It's called personal responsibility.
And the main purpose of gov't is to provide security for the nation, not to attend to each individuals needs.
When people work hard for their money, they have every right to keep it. When did that become greed? And if you do the research, you will find the more money people have, the more they GIVE to those in need. But it has to come from the heart, not a gov't mandate which just causes resentment.

[KenGuy]

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

If not for us "warmongering" americans,you panseys would be speakin' German,Japanese,or Russian now.And only about 6% of our GDP or GNP go to the military.But even if we had NO army,I couldn't see ME payin' for some lazy bastards HC just because "They Can't Afford It".If "They can't afford it" my answer is "to F---ing bad".Now,mind your own F---ing business.<quoted text>

"If they can't afford hc, too f-ing bad, mind your own f-ing business". Typical American response.

America is only a head in technology for 1 reason: You people sat back in the world wars and watched everyone die, America got rich, then stepped in at the last second.

That's another sad thing, America only knows it's own history. You just prove one thing with your ignorant response about HC and helping others Cheech, you're just another typical American who cares about no one but yourself.

America, the only place you can be 400 lbs and still starve to death.

The Americans who did die for there country, and others, knowing they fought for ungrateful losers like yourself, would be ashamed to call themselves American.

[KenGuy]

The Chelmsford Flash wrote:

<quoted text>
O.K. one by one.
1. Most Americans that pay taxes (top 50%) are already paying MORE than 50% of their income to taxes; local,state,federal, UHC would render most them into the class of dependent poverty,(the Dems. want this) as it gives them a perpetual supply of new voters to buy with yet more silly social programs, the very costly programs that are exterminating the middle class , quite a connundrum. Yes?
2. "Stupid war mongering Americans" You should wake each morning and give solemn thanks to the greatest nation in the history of the world as we provide the very blanket of freedom, liberty and economic stability that you Canadians take for granted. A simple thank you would suffice!
3. "There would be no setting appointments or waiting for approval" The biggest problem WITH your Healthcare system (UHC) is the interminable wating for procedures, THEN, the rationing of services is the other DARK secret of UHC, finding out if you qualify for a costly procedure only to be put in yet another waiting pool while the ruling elites decide on your fate.
Yes, many Americans are very smart, unfortunately roughly 50-60% are not that smart and are willing to sacrifice freedom and liberty for the faux security of this bogus notion of "a free ride"
In short the true "greedy people" in America are the ones that want their neighbor to pay for them in lifes struggle to be a self sufficient adult.

Most Americans that pay taxes are already paying 50% of there income to the government? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me if you're making $14/h in America you're only getting $7/h of it? Please, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

I am grateful for what some few Americans did MANY years ago, but most of America has changed, and is no longer what it used to be. The people who died for America, died for an America that no longer exists. Am I grateful for what America does now (as far as war goes)?

Maybe a little bit, if you guys didn't start so much shit, rape and murder innocent foreigners for centuries, then we might be a target somewhere down the line. But thanks to America's crimes, it's why we, and other countires are safe for the most part. So, here is your Thank You.

You are DEAD WRONG. There is no waiting to see if you qualify for costly procedures. If it threatens your life, it is taken care of immediately. Doctors wanted to charge a man $60, 000 to re-attatch his index finger, and $16, 000 to re-attatch his wedding finger.

So, ofcourse the guy now lives to this day missing 1 finger because in America he couldn't afford to have his index finger put back together. LAND OF THE FREE!!!

With UHC, you can cut all 10 of your fingers off, and you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY. No wait time, watch the new kiddo.

Actually, it's the smart, rich ones who are the most greedy. You would rather pay $100, 000 in medical expenses on yourself, then pay 1-2% of your taxes to UHC. America is about profit, making it at any and all costs. Even if it kills your own countrymen. That is todays' America.

The true greedy people in America today is the government. Young Americans are born into a government that cares about nothing but making money at ANY cost. Which is why I really do not dislike most Americans, because it's not your fault, you're born into it, it's all you guys know.

Until the American government changes, the general population of America may never change(that's you).

[daking]

Many of the people who need some type of coverage are the working poor. And yes they had the opportunity to get a better job and so forth, but who is going to make your burger at McDonalds if those type of jobs didn't exist. So back to my point. A universal health care system would better serve america. I mean look at the welfare system, we are paying for those individuals to have health care already, and to put food on the table. Take some funds from that and use that to help supplement the program. I'm not a financial analyst so I won't pretend to know that will fix it, but as a great entetainer once said, "we got money for wars but won't feed the poor." I konw he said can't, but I changed the word to reflect my views. How we gonna solve everyone elses problems we we haven't fixed our own.

[daking]

Oh and for the people saying the wealthy pay more taxes, they don't. They are supposed to, but they write most everything off, search for comments made by Warren Buffe. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busines...
I just wanted to throw that out there about the wealthy. So I think we can afford for them to pay a little more tax.

[No_oil_4_u]

daking wrote:

Many of the people who need some type of coverage are the working poor. And yes they had the opportunity to get a better job and so forth, but who is going to make your burger at McDonalds if those type of jobs didn't exist. So back to my point. A universal health care system would better serve america. I mean look at the welfare system, we are paying for those individuals to have health care already, and to put food on the table. Take some funds from that and use that to help supplement the program. I'm not a financial analyst so I won't pretend to know that will fix it, but as a great entetainer once said, "we got money for wars but won't feed the poor." I konw he said can't, but I changed the word to reflect my views. How we gonna solve everyone elses problems we we haven't fixed our own.

I have a better idea; cut off all welfare programs on the spot. 100% no ands ifs and buts. Welfare spending has become nothing more than a vote buying scheme dreamed up by the socialist politicians wanting to get elected or re-elected.

[No_oil_4_u]

daking wrote:

Oh and for the people saying the wealthy pay more taxes, they don't. They are supposed to, but they write most everything off, search for comments made by Warren Buffe. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busines...
I just wanted to throw that out there about the wealthy. So I think we can afford for them to pay a little more tax.

Why should the wealthy pay any moe than anyone else?

[Just for the Record]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
Most Americans that pay taxes are already paying 50% of there income to the government? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me if you're making $14/h in America you're only getting $7/h of it? Please, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

With UHC, you can cut all 10 of your fingers off, and you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY. No wait time, watch the new kiddo.

Actually, it's the smart, rich ones who are the most greedy. You would rather pay $100, 000 in medical expenses on yourself, then pay 1-2% of your taxes to UHC. America is about profit, making it at any and all costs. Even if it kills your own countrymen. That is todays' America.
The true greedy people in America today is the government. Young Americans are born into a government that cares about nothing but making money at ANY cost. Which is why I really do not dislike most Americans, because it's not your fault, you're born into it, it's all you guys know.

First off he is right, most American's do pay half their income in taxes. This includes Social Security Tax, Medicare Tax, Federal Income Tax, State Tax, state fees, sales tax, phone tax, sales tax on electric and heat, additional tax to pay for electric and heat for those on welfare, federal gas tax, state gas tax etc. I could go one. Depending on income and the state they live in some pay more then half of their income in taxes.

What I find interesting is that you are pulling numbers out of your butt so to speak and appear to know nothing about America or it's people. Most American do not pay nearly $100,000 a year for health care. Plus in some states you can pay $4,000 a year and get great coverage. Each state has to be considered on it owns it. Average cost in WI for a family of five is $10,000 or less assuming the family has health issues and is paying all the cost.

And save the rant about insurance. I just had emergency surgery and was hospitalized for awhile, so I know what my insurance coverage. Plus I know that the American Health Care System and its Doctors, nurses, etc saved my life. Is it perfect no, but it's a lot better than what I have encountered in Canada.

[Just for the Record]

daking wrote:

Many of the people who need some type of coverage are the working poor. And yes they had the opportunity to get a better job and so forth, but who is going to make your burger at McDonalds if those type of jobs didn't exist. So back to my point. A universal health care system would better serve america. I mean look at the welfare system, we are paying for those individuals to have health care already, and to put food on the table. Take some funds from that and use that to help supplement the program. I'm not a financial analyst so I won't pretend to know that will fix it, but as a great entetainer once said, "we got money for wars but won't feed the poor." I konw he said can't, but I changed the word to reflect my views. How we gonna solve everyone elses problems we we haven't fixed our own.

Those types of jobs were never meant to support or raise a family on.

[No_oil_4_u]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
Most Americans that pay taxes are already paying 50% of there income to the government? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me if you're making $14/h in America you're only getting $7/h of it? Please, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
I am grateful for what some few Americans did MANY years ago, but most of America has changed, and is no longer what it used to be. The people who died for America, died for an America that no longer exists. Am I grateful for what America does now (as far as war goes)?
Maybe a little bit, if you guys didn't start so much shit, rape and murder innocent foreigners for centuries, then we might be a target somewhere down the line. But thanks to America's crimes, it's why we, and other countires are safe for the most part. So, here is your Thank You.
You are DEAD WRONG. There is no waiting to see if you qualify for costly procedures. If it threatens your life, it is taken care of immediately. Doctors wanted to charge a man $60, 000 to re-attatch his index finger, and $16, 000 to re-attatch his wedding finger.
So, ofcourse the guy now lives to this day missing 1 finger because in America he couldn't afford to have his index finger put back together. LAND OF THE FREE!!!
With UHC, you can cut all 10 of your fingers off, and you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY. No wait time, watch the new kiddo.
Actually, it's the smart, rich ones who are the most greedy. You would rather pay $100, 000 in medical expenses on yourself, then pay 1-2% of your taxes to UHC. America is about profit, making it at any and all costs. Even if it kills your own countrymen. That is todays' America.
The true greedy people in America today is the government. Young Americans are born into a government that cares about nothing but making money at ANY cost. Which is why I really do not dislike most Americans, because it's not your fault, you're born into it, it's all you guys know.
Until the American government changes, the general population of America may never change(that's you).

Your prior post was os much socialistic half truth misconstrued socialist hogwash I didn't even waste my time reading this one.

[KenGuy]

Just for the Record wrote:

First off he is right, most American's do pay half their income in taxes. This includes Social Security Tax, Medicare Tax, Federal Income Tax, State Tax, state fees, sales tax, phone tax, sales tax on electric and heat, additional tax to pay for electric and heat for those on welfare, federal gas tax, state gas tax etc. I could go one. Depending on income and the state they live in some pay more then half of their income in taxes.
What I find interesting is that you are pulling numbers out of your butt so to speak and appear to know nothing about America or it's people. Most American do not pay nearly $100,000 a year for health care. Plus in some states you can pay $4,000 a year and get great coverage. Each state has to be considered on it owns it. Average cost in WI for a family of five is $10,000 or less assuming the family has health issues and is paying all the cost.
And save the rant about insurance. I just had emergency surgery and was hospitalized for awhile, so I know what my insurance coverage. Plus I know that the American Health Care System and its Doctors, nurses, etc saved my life. Is it perfect no, but it's a lot better than what I have encountered in Canada.

So, if you look at your pay stub and it says total income =$2, 000

total taxes taken off =$1, 000+? off of each pay check? so if you're making 2k a month, only 1k is deposited into your bank account? Stop with the bullshitting.

I didn't say 100, 000 a year. Americans would rather save, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on there ownselves for medical procedures, then spend a small % of there income for the entire country.

$4,000 a year? How fucking rediculously expensive.

What if you can't afford health insurance, and the time comes you need to pay over $100, 000 in medical costs? What if your declinded because you're "too thin" or "too overweight"?

Luckily, you were insured, and you weren't declined. But, that's you. What about others who are declined every day, or need emergency services every day and are not insured? THEY DIE.

With UHC, if you're a citizen of the country you will not be declined a life-saving procedure.

With private health insurance money-grubbing cock suckers, you risk being declined. Then you will most probably lose your life, end of story. Go America, LAND OF THE FREE.

[KenGuy]

No_oil_4_u wrote:

<quoted text>Your prior post was os much socialistic half truth misconstrued socialist hogwash I didn't even waste my time reading this one.

The truth hurts.

Nice name, "No Oil 4 U" another greedy individual from the states that promotes ignorance.

[Raptor in Michigan]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
"If they can't afford hc, too f-ing bad, mind your own f-ing business". Typical American response.
America is only a head in technology for 1 reason: You people sat back in the world wars and watched everyone die, America got rich, then stepped in at the last second.
That's another sad thing, America only knows it's own history. You just prove one thing with your ignorant response about HC and helping others Cheech, you're just another typical American who cares about no one but yourself.
America, the only place you can be 400 lbs and still starve to death.
The Americans who did die for there country, and others, knowing they fought for ungrateful losers like yourself, would be ashamed to call themselves American.

We can't win no matter what we do. If we wait until the last second to get involved, we get criticized. If we go in too early we're accused of a "preemptive" strike or getting involved with something that's none of our business.

[Raptor in Michigan]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
Most Americans that pay taxes are already paying 50% of there income to the government? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me if you're making $14/h in America you're only getting $7/h of it? Please, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
I am grateful for what some few Americans did MANY years ago, but most of America has changed, and is no longer what it used to be. The people who died for America, died for an America that no longer exists. Am I grateful for what America does now (as far as war goes)?
Maybe a little bit, if you guys didn't start so much shit, rape and murder innocent foreigners for centuries, then we might be a target somewhere down the line. But thanks to America's crimes, it's why we, and other countires are safe for the most part. So, here is your Thank You.
You are DEAD WRONG. There is no waiting to see if you qualify for costly procedures. If it threatens your life, it is taken care of immediately. Doctors wanted to charge a man $60, 000 to re-attatch his index finger, and $16, 000 to re-attatch his wedding finger.
So, ofcourse the guy now lives to this day missing 1 finger because in America he couldn't afford to have his index finger put back together. LAND OF THE FREE!!!
With UHC, you can cut all 10 of your fingers off, and you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY. No wait time, watch the new kiddo.
Actually, it's the smart, rich ones who are the most greedy. You would rather pay $100, 000 in medical expenses on yourself, then pay 1-2% of your taxes to UHC. America is about profit, making it at any and all costs. Even if it kills your own countrymen. That is todays' America.
The true greedy people in America today is the government. Young Americans are born into a government that cares about nothing but making money at ANY cost. Which is why I really do not dislike most Americans, because it's not your fault, you're born into it, it's all you guys know.
Until the American government changes, the general population of America may never change(that's you).

You got that right! "Most of America has changed and is no longer what it used to be." That's why we are trying to get the libs out of power and return to a time our founding fathers intended when we lived by the constitution the way it was meant to be. That means very little govt and everyone had a right to work and prosper without gov't redistribution of wealth. People were more generous back then- the point I made in my previous post.

[KenGuy]

Raptor in Michigan wrote:

<quoted text>
We can't win no matter what we do. If we wait until the last second to get involved, we get criticized. If we go in too early we're accused of a "preemptive" strike or getting involved with something that's none of our business.

You're right Raptor but with half of Americans voting "No" for UHC, I don't believe the American government will ever change, or it will be decades down the road at the very least.