Should the US have universal healthcare?

[DFK]

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

DFK?Is that short for defecate?<quoted text>

No, stoner, it's not. But, thanks for asking.

[Cheech the Conservative]

I do not use drugs.But thanks for caring.Why is it that you libs blame Repubs for everything?Both sides are equally corrupt.

DFK wrote:

<quoted text>
No, stoner, it's not. But, thanks for asking.

[DFK]

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

I do not use drugs.But thanks for caring.Why is it that you libs blame Repubs for everything?Both sides are equally corrupt.<quoted text>

Because the past eight years is all Repug, baby! Own it! I disagree with your statement about "both sides," but totally respect your right to hold and express it. Might wanna change that screen name if ya don't want to project a "stoner" image. Oh, and your political philosophy as well while you are at it, cuz you must be high to continue to hang onto all those failed policies.

[Cheech the Conservative]

How is a conservative a "stoner" image?And the Clintons were not corrupt?What about the last two years?I thought the DEM congress was going to change things.Looks like the same thing to me.At least I am fair.I blame the WHOLE gov't.THAT is why I am against gov't control of our healthcare.

DFK wrote:

<quoted text>
Because the past eight years is all Repug, baby! Own it! I disagree with your statement about "both sides," but totally respect your right to hold and express it. Might wanna change that screen name if ya don't want to project a "stoner" image. Oh, and your political philosophy as well while you are at it, cuz you must be high to continue to hang onto all those failed policies.

[Abner]

Observer- wrote:

<quoted text>.....
Topix has a limit to the amount of space one post can use so I’ll summarize each point or myth as they are called. Then we can expand on each if you like.
Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
This argument has been made many times right here on this thread but the argument is hollow and irrelevant because US healthcare has been destroyed by the very politicians who claim to have the “newest” solution. Comparing our current system with the rest of the world is unfair because our system is no longer permitted to be the best in the world.
Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive
This point seems so absurd that why would I even bother to refute it? UHC in the United States will be more expensive than this country could possibly pay for due to overuse and corruption/fraud across the board from patients to administration. And that doesn’t even consider that most UHC proposals include illegal aliens being covered as citizens.
Myth Three: Universal Health Care Would Deprive Citizens of Needed Services
Of course citizens will be deprived of needed services. My friends that deprivation is happening right now with Medicare, Medicaid, and Tricare. Government healthcare programs all.
Myth Four: Universal Health Care Would Result In Government Control And Intrusion Into Health Care Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice
Again as above, healthcare “freedom of choice” is lost now. And trust me here, I can present example after example of how our current system of Medicare, Medicaid, and Tricare does prevent choice and does deprive citizens of proper care.
Myth Five: Universal Health Care Is Socialized Medicine And Would Be Unacceptable To The Public
Healthcare designed, implemented, administrated, and paid for with taxation by the federal government is the very definition of a Socialized Healthcare System.
Myth Six: The Problems With The US Health Care System Are Being Solved and Are Best Solved By Private Corporate Managed Care Medicine because they are the most efficient
This point is perhaps the most dishonest argument in your link. There is simply no possible way that the federal government’s healthcare bohemoth operates at a 3% overhead. That figure is just another example of our federal government’s “creative” accounting techniques. Medicare will fail in my lifetime guaranteed unless the federal government raises taxes, the yearly co-payment, the age of the user, or applies some other co-insurance requirement. Medicare is on the fast track to complete failure as we speak.

Your points are well taken.

As I said, I researched the points on the link I provided and found them to be accurate...for the most part. The link is skewed by nature to favor UHC..but the points are those of interest, of course.
As many of us, I base my opinion largely on personal experience and from what I've seen and heard from others.
I'm fortunate in that I have pretty good coverage and have access to medical treatment for the most part. But I know many who do not, through no fault of their own.
As I've said before..I've gone to Canada to get dental treatment even though I have coverage. I still pay less..and get better treatment up there.
I know several Canadians who are quite happy with their coverage..contrary to what is said of it here in the US.
I'm not advocating either one or any political position or remedy in particular..I simply say that our health care system is derelict.

[Cheech the Conservative]

But why should MY taxes go up to pay for someone else?I don't care if some stranger is not covered,or why.That is a matter of personal responsibility.I bet most of those not covered have cars and TV's.

Abner wrote:

<quoted text>
Your points are well taken.
As I said, I researched the points on the link I provided and found them to be accurate...for the most part. The link is skewed by nature to favor UHC..but the points are those of interest, of course.
As many of us, I base my opinion largely on personal experience and from what I've seen and heard from others.
I'm fortunate in that I have pretty good coverage and have access to medical treatment for the most part. But I know many who do not, through no fault of their own.
As I've said before..I've gone to Canada to get dental treatment even though I have coverage. I still pay less..and get better treatment up there.
I know several Canadians who are quite happy with their coverage..contrary to what is said of it here in the US.
I'm not advocating either one or any political position or remedy in particular..I simply say that our health care system is derelict.

[jake65]

Between Fedeal, State, Local, sales taxes, excise taxes, This is 50% of our income. How many of us are affected by a 3 trillion dollar budget, other than paying for it. If we are going to pay we should get something.

[Cheech the Conservative]

Good point.But I would rather pay NO taxes and get NOTHING from the gov't.Or at least cut taxes to the bone and just get nat'l defence,police,and fire.Anything else,I can earn myself.

jake65 wrote:

Between Fedeal, State, Local, sales taxes, excise taxes, This is 50% of our income. How many of us are affected by a 3 trillion dollar budget, other than paying for it. If we are going to pay we should get something.

[Phil Gray]

Update

I just got off the Phone with Senator Burrs office reference our plan.

The senator was quite interested in the work we have done and want all to know what fine job with did.

I spent about an hour on the phone and seem like some of our suggestions will make it into a Bill S101019 Which is going to be co-sponsored by Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma.

Both Senators Burr and Coburn are Republican.

They specifically wanted to know more about the first part of the plan reference Prime care, along with going about the illegal immigration portion. They liked the Idea of the malpractice part and said a portion of it may make it's way into the bill which is sponsoring healthcare courts.

Just want you to know I am still pluging away in the background. I hope to approach the media phase within a week.

All in all iI think this might be gaining some substantial interest with our legislators.

[Nomorlyes]

How is it that the guy from Cyprus knows more about this than the Republican hacks on this site?

[Jammercolo]

You want $10.00 a gallon gas to pay for this universal healthcare.

Michigan started universal healthcare last year and are already 100's of millions in the hole. There fix for part is to raise the tax on smokers again. Fat people your next you wait and see...

[Cheech the Conservative]

How is it that parasite libs on welfare,like yourself,can afford a computer?Libs are for murdering babies.(abortion.)Gay marriage.Burning the flag.Balkanizing our people.It wouldn't surprise me if you were GLAD 9/11 happened.Us "repub hacks" actually came up with a good HC plan.You parasite libs just want the gov't to be your nanny.GFY.

Nomorlyes wrote:

How is it that the guy from Cyprus knows more about this than the Republican hacks on this site?

[Cheech the Conservative]

That is the lib plan.Tax,tax,tax,tax.Take away from those who EARN.Give it all to those who don't.You made a good point.

Jammercolo wrote:

You want $10.00 a gallon gas to pay for this universal healthcare.
Michigan started universal healthcare last year and are already 100's of millions in the hole. There fix for part is to raise the tax on smokers again. Fat people your next you wait and see...

[Cheech the Conservative]

A repeat:page 675

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

The Lib Manifesto-If it is income,TAX it-If it is revenue,SPEND it-If it is business,REGULATE it-If it is a felon,PARDON it-If it is a war,LOSE it-If it is military,PROTEST it-If it is an American flag,BURN it-If it is a baby,ABORT it-If it is immoral,SANCTION it-If it is history,TWIST it-If it's on welfare,PRAISE it-If it's an enemy,APPEASE it-If it is a profit,REDISTRIBUTE it-And if it is freedom,RESTRICT it.Only by doing these things can we make sure that the gov't of the people,by the people,and for the people WILL perish from this earth.--From-The Clintons,Jimmy Carter,Nancy Pelosi,Harry Ried,Ted Kennedy,Jesse Jackson,Jane Fonda,Fatass Michael Moore,and Ward Churchill.<quoted text>

[Avenger]

Go to Canada and ask them about this! They will tell you it is an absolute diaster! They can not get appointments, operations, MRI's or lab test without a year long wait, if at all. When you take away the incentive to do well you do away with proper medical care.

[takion1]

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

How is a conservative a "stoner" image?And the Clintons were not corrupt?What about the last two years?I thought the DEM congress was going to change things.Looks like the same thing to me.At least I am fair.I blame the WHOLE gov't.THAT is why I am against gov't control of our healthcare.<quoted text>

Cheech I think he is making a reference to your name.
Think about the Cheech and Chong stoner movies.

Like you, I blame the Govt as a whole for America's problems.
Both parties have had a hand in creating our current problems.

[takion1]

Jammercolo wrote:

You want $10.00 a gallon gas to pay for this universal healthcare.
Michigan started universal healthcare last year and are already 100's of millions in the hole. There fix for part is to raise the tax on smokers again. Fat people your next you wait and see...

And what will happen when smokers quit?

The next target, will either be the fast food industry, or the alcoholic beverage industry.

[CanuckMeister]

Cheech the Conservative asked if I had a provincial plan or a federal plan.

There is no federal plan in Canada. Each of the provinces and territories are mandated by the federal government to maintain a health care system, but each is free to determine the benefits available and how to raise funds.

In Alberta, where I live, it is not free. Every month I get a bill, just like every American that has health insurance (and similarly, sometimes the company pays it, other times the individual). In other provinces, the sales tax is used, and their residents don't get bills. In Québec, there are user fees that supplement the system.

The main difference is that I cannot lose it, or be denied benefits for pre-existing conditions.

As for your comment that some Canadians like it and other don't, that is no different that the U.S. Some like it, some don't. Some have horror stories, some don't.

[CanuckMeister]

Avenger wrote:

Go to Canada and ask them about this! They will tell you it is an absolute diaster! They can not get appointments, operations, MRI's or lab test without a year long wait, if at all. When you take away the incentive to do well you do away with proper medical care.

If you come to Canada, I don't believe you will find 100% agreement, but neither will you find 100% disagreement. There are problems, but the vast majority of Canadians generally believe that the system is worth keeping, and that the reasons for having a Universal Health Care system outweight the reasons for not having one.

[Cheech the Conservative]

Thanx.That is what I was asking.It wouldn't work here because our bureaucracy is to big.

CanuckMeister wrote:

Cheech the Conservative asked if I had a provincial plan or a federal plan.
There is no federal plan in Canada. Each of the provinces and territories are mandated by the federal government to maintain a health care system, but each is free to determine the benefits available and how to raise funds.
In Alberta, where I live, it is not free. Every month I get a bill, just like every American that has health insurance (and similarly, sometimes the company pays it, other times the individual). In other provinces, the sales tax is used, and their residents don't get bills. In Québec, there are user fees that supplement the system.
The main difference is that I cannot lose it, or be denied benefits for pre-existing conditions.
As for your comment that some Canadians like it and other don't, that is no different that the U.S. Some like it, some don't. Some have horror stories, some don't.