Should the US have universal healthcare?

[Cheech the Conservative]

You are giving that guy a break.He is not an American.He has no right to sneer at the USA.Tove is not American,but she doesn't "put us down".(She only visits occasionally to say hi.TO ME!).

Observer- wrote:

<quoted text>..........
I'm a long time poster on this thread starting on page 2 but I stopped because of ignorant, uninformed, and non-sensical posts such as this. First, the healthcare situation in the US is not hopeless. There are a number of sensible actions that could change healthcare here in months.
Second, other nation's UHC programs would find themselves in the same mess as our system is once they began operating within the confines of our broken system. For literally months I posted several times a day trying to point out of nation's biggest flaw in our system. Our biggest flaw is that the very federal government who wants to "take" over the current healthcare system is the cause of the healthcare mess in the first place. Between the Congressional/Senatorial "fixes" designed and instituted by lawyers and the "out of control" insurance industry, the American people have been screwed royally. I submit to you that if England or Canada were permitted to set up shop in America, they would also be out of business or going broke within a year or so. Our healthcare mess is the result of government rules and regulations that do not work coupled with an insurance industry who have taken to role of healthcare away from the healthcare professionals and placed it squarely in the hands of career politicans. No my friend, foreign healthcare systems have no better chance at success here than our present system. But nice try anyway!

[No_oil_4_u]

Some wisdom I heard from the Government today includes something to the effect that gasoline prices fell 2.4%. Looking into it furthur revealed the Government projected that gasoline prices were to rise 7.6%, but they only rose 5.2%. Gawd, and the socialists want the Government to run health care! LOL!

[No_oil_4_u]

cypriotNot fake tc wrote:

with the hopeless situation in usa, a good option would be national health systems of other countries opening branches in usa.
hell insuring Americans , half the price the American insurance companies are insuring ,is a good way to extracting some few tenths of billions ...
write down this "Choice Medical Services"
hopefully none will need it, but in case..

I have a better idea. How about having the USA ship all of its welfare types to these countries and they can take care of all their needs. Then the remaining productive people in the United States can once again live our lives without having to pay for the unproductive whiners

[Abner]

http://www.standtallforamerica.com/page/s/car...

[No_oil_4_u]

Abner wrote:

http://www.standtallforamerica.com/page/s/car...

Quite a read. In other words lazy bums can quit work and get health care, paid for obviously by the ones that keep working. Same old same old

[Cheech the Conservative]

Something like my idea.Keep the illegals,who actually WANT to work,and send the welfare trash to Mexico.

No_oil_4_u wrote:

<quoted text>I have a better idea. How about having the USA ship all of its welfare types to these countries and they can take care of all their needs. Then the remaining productive people in the United States can once again live our lives without having to pay for the unproductive whiners

[Observer-]

No_oil_4_u wrote:

<quoted text>I think that one of the most important thoughts on your link was >>>most people think health care is free because insurance covers it<<<. There is a lot of meat in that line.

.........

Mr. No Oil: I have enjoyed reading your posts with Cheech and the gang. Let me add 2 important points that you might be referring to in your post. First, you are aboslutely correct. Most patients in this office are completely unaware of their coverage, what it covers, what is doesn't cover, how it is paid for, and how the overall insurance system operates in healthcare. And we find that the better a person's coverage, the less they know. Or care for that matter? I have yet to have a healthcare insurance covered patient ask me how much anything will cost. They simply expect that their insurance will cover everything and to them......that's FREE.

Second, the author of my link states that "free" healthcare will drive usage and over-usage to the point of healthcare costing significantly more once the politicians lable healthcare as Universal and Free. The author is, without any question or doubt, absolutely correct. In this office, our most consistent users and over-users of healthcare is our state Medicaid patients. They demand the best doctors. They demand the best hospitals. They demand the most expsensive medications. And they have no issue scheduling mulitiple appointments whenever they feel the least bit "under the weather." Why?????? Simply because they can!!! Medicaid patients can come to our office for treatment as much as they like with no limitations whatsoever. Why??? Again, because it is FREE!!!!!

"Free Healthcare" is not free and will never be free. Anytime a politician speaks about UHC, I recommend putting your hand over your wallet.

[Abner]

No_oil_4_u wrote:

<quoted text>Quite a read. In other words lazy bums can quit work and get health care, paid for obviously by the ones that keep working. Same old same old

You read it? I'm impressed...but alas, your comprehension and mathematical skills have not improved since the last time..no surprise.
Although I posted the link for the benefit of those who might actually want to further educate themselves on the issue and ultimately form an independent opinion based on intelligent research and dialog, I fully expected the predictably irrelevant shallow minded yelping I've come to expect from you and your partners in pointlessness. An unavoidable hazard one must endure if posting on a thread imbedded with dullards such as you.
At any rate..I leave you again to wallow in your own blather. I'm sure you'll conjure up a brilliant response (if only in your opinion) but it will go on without rebuttal to avoid an ultimate exercise in futility.

[Cheech the Conservative]

You tell 'em,L'il Abner.You an' Mammy Yokum,Pappy Yokum,Daisy Mae,and Lonesome Polecat.Dogpatch NEEDS yas!Don't ya'all forget good ole' General Bullmoose!

Abner wrote:

<quoted text>
You read it? I'm impressed...but alas, your comprehension and mathematical skills have not improved since the last time..no surprise.
Although I posted the link for the benefit of those who might actually want to further educate themselves on the issue and ultimately form an independent opinion based on intelligent research and dialog, I fully expected the predictably irrelevant shallow minded yelping I've come to expect from you and your partners in pointlessness. An unavoidable hazard one must endure if posting on a thread imbedded with dullards such as you.
At any rate..I leave you again to wallow in your own blather. I'm sure you'll conjure up a brilliant response (if only in your opinion) but it will go on without rebuttal to avoid an ultimate exercise in futility.

[Cheech the Conservative]

Tove.My Dulcinea.Future consort of "Don Cheechio".Has a ring to it!

Observer- wrote:

<quoted text>.........
Mr. No Oil: I have enjoyed reading your posts with Cheech and the gang. Let me add 2 important points that you might be referring to in your post. First, you are aboslutely correct. Most patients in this office are completely unaware of their coverage, what it covers, what is doesn't cover, how it is paid for, and how the overall insurance system operates in healthcare. And we find that the better a person's coverage, the less they know. Or care for that matter? I have yet to have a healthcare insurance covered patient ask me how much anything will cost. They simply expect that their insurance will cover everything and to them......that's FREE.
Second, the author of my link states that "free" healthcare will drive usage and over-usage to the point of healthcare costing significantly more once the politicians lable healthcare as Universal and Free. The author is, without any question or doubt, absolutely correct. In this office, our most consistent users and over-users of healthcare is our state Medicaid patients. They demand the best doctors. They demand the best hospitals. They demand the most expsensive medications. And they have no issue scheduling mulitiple appointments whenever they feel the least bit "under the weather." Why?????? Simply because they can!!! Medicaid patients can come to our office for treatment as much as they like with no limitations whatsoever. Why??? Again, because it is FREE!!!!!
"Free Healthcare" is not free and will never be free. Anytime a politician speaks about UHC, I recommend putting your hand over your wallet.

[Observer-]

Abner wrote:

<quoted text>
You read it? I'm impressed...but alas, your comprehension and mathematical skills have not improved since the last time..no surprise.
Although I posted the link for the benefit of those who might actually want to further educate themselves on the issue and ultimately form an independent opinion based on intelligent research and dialog, I fully expected the predictably irrelevant shallow minded yelping I've come to expect from you and your partners in pointlessness. An unavoidable hazard one must endure if posting on a thread imbedded with dullards such as you.
At any rate..I leave you again to wallow in your own blather. I'm sure you'll conjure up a brilliant response (if only in your opinion) but it will go on without rebuttal to avoid an ultimate exercise in futility.

..........

I read it as well and let me say just one thing: when any healthcare theory, idea, or program has this sentence attached, I know it is another waste of time and effort. That sentence is:

"The Act even saves money through wellness and prevention."

"Wellness and Prevention" are the buzzwords in healthcare right now and frankly they both are a bunch of garbage. Of course, wellness and preventing illness on the surface is not a debatable issue. But the debate is how can society achieve wellness and prevention. Contrary to this absurd belief, illnesses and injuries are not all preventable no matter what anyone says. You get the flu. You get eye infections. You hurt your knee playing tennis. Humans are humans and as such, subject to disease, illness, accidents, and many other healthcare problems. "Wellness and Prevention" are simply another in a very long line of politician's phrasologies that sound good but are as worthless as most political babble bubbling up from Washington DC.

Look....I work it every day of my life and have for years. Phrases and proclamations about healthcare have not fixed the problems in decades. In fact, I submit to you that healthcare is far worse today than just one decade ago. Let me give you 2 other examples. I wathced the O'Reilly interview with Hillary Clinton. On healthcare she said 2 ridiculous statments that in her mind, would lower costs.#1 She said Electronic Medical Records would lower costs to physicians. Nonsense. We have been a completely paperless EMR office since 2003. We have not had any reduction in office expenses. Just convenience and not losing paper records.#2. She said that she would "negotiate" better prices with doctors. Nonsense. "Negotiate better prices" is code for cutting reimbursement even more than it is now. Like I have said on this thread many times......we are paid less today per visit than we were paid in 1990. Who can say they are paid less for their product or service today than almost 20 years ago?

[Observer-]

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

Tove.My Dulcinea.Future consort of "Don Cheechio".Has a ring to it!<quoted text>

..........

Cheech..........is Tove aware of your romantic intentions? I better email her and let her know about your posts. And yes......it does have a nice ring to it!!!!

[Corbin Leape]

Tove wrote:

<quoted text>
You wouldn't need to pay 50% of your income in order to have universal health care.
Also it seems like you spend an awful lot of money on admin. Doesn't that bother you?

Government does not do business well. Self regulation breeds excellence because of the competative aspect. Capitalism breeds competition. Competition keeps costs lower. Health care is high because the government is involved. Which is not unwarranted...but that IS why it is so high. And the USA has, BY FAR, the best medical ability in the world. That is because there is incentive...in the form of money. And when many people compete for that business...it seperates the morons from the brilliant. So we get good health care at afforable rates.

One last thing that most Europens don't understand. There is a medical facility in the US for every person who needs one. Hospitals cannot turn away ANY emergency patient. And there are free clinics and indigent care hospitals in every city. Every citizen in the United States has access to health care...whether they have health insurance...or not.

[Cheech the Conservative]

Certainly not PI lawyers.These bloodsucking leeches are coining money hand over foot.How valuable are they to the economy?Bupkiss!What is Hillarybitch?A LAWYER.And LIAR.But what is the difference.The plan we came up with eliminates punitive damages,which would eliminate the need for "mal-practice Ins".Today,there are probably more lawyers in any emergency room than nurses.And if we could bottle up the hot air coming out of D.C. every day,our energy problem would be solved.All of those bureaucrats should be diggin' spuds on Kcuph's farm.In TRIPLICATE!

Observer- wrote:

<quoted text>..........
I read it as well and let me say just one thing: when any healthcare theory, idea, or program has this sentence attached, I know it is another waste of time and effort. That sentence is:
"The Act even saves money through wellness and prevention."
"Wellness and Prevention" are the buzzwords in healthcare right now and frankly they both are a bunch of garbage. Of course, wellness and preventing illness on the surface is not a debatable issue. But the debate is how can society achieve wellness and prevention. Contrary to this absurd belief, illnesses and injuries are not all preventable no matter what anyone says. You get the flu. You get eye infections. You hurt your knee playing tennis. Humans are humans and as such, subject to disease, illness, accidents, and many other healthcare problems. "Wellness and Prevention" are simply another in a very long line of politician's phrasologies that sound good but are as worthless as most political babble bubbling up from Washington DC.
Look....I work it every day of my life and have for years. Phrases and proclamations about healthcare have not fixed the problems in decades. In fact, I submit to you that healthcare is far worse today than just one decade ago. Let me give you 2 other examples. I wathced the O'Reilly interview with Hillary Clinton. On healthcare she said 2 ridiculous statments that in her mind, would lower costs.#1 She said Electronic Medical Records would lower costs to physicians. Nonsense. We have been a completely paperless EMR office since 2003. We have not had any reduction in office expenses. Just convenience and not losing paper records.#2. She said that she would "negotiate" better prices with doctors. Nonsense. "Negotiate better prices" is code for cutting reimbursement even more than it is now. Like I have said on this thread many times......we are paid less today per visit than we were paid in 1990. Who can say they are paid less for their product or service today than almost 20 years ago?

[Cheech the Conservative]

Wish you coulda' been here 5 mos ago.This is what OUR side has been pointing out all along.

Corbin Leape wrote:

<quoted text>
Government does not do business well. Self regulation breeds excellence because of the competative aspect. Capitalism breeds competition. Competition keeps costs lower. Health care is high because the government is involved. Which is not unwarranted...but that IS why it is so high. And the USA has, BY FAR, the best medical ability in the world. That is because there is incentive...in the form of money. And when many people compete for that business...it seperates the morons from the brilliant. So we get good health care at afforable rates.
One last thing that most Europens don't understand. There is a medical facility in the US for every person who needs one. Hospitals cannot turn away ANY emergency patient. And there are free clinics and indigent care hospitals in every city. Every citizen in the United States has access to health care...whether they have health insurance...or not.

[Abner]

Observer- wrote:

<quoted text>..........
I read it as well and let me say just one thing: when any healthcare theory, idea, or program has this sentence attached, I know it is another waste of time and effort. That sentence is:
"The Act even saves money through wellness and prevention."
"Wellness and Prevention" are the buzzwords in healthcare right now and frankly they both are a bunch of garbage. Of course, wellness and preventing illness on the surface is not a debatable issue. But the debate is how can society achieve wellness and prevention. Contrary to this absurd belief, illnesses and injuries are not all preventable no matter what anyone says. You get the flu. You get eye infections. You hurt your knee playing tennis. Humans are humans and as such, subject to disease, illness, accidents, and many other healthcare problems. "Wellness and Prevention" are simply another in a very long line of politician's phrasologies that sound good but are as worthless as most political babble bubbling up from Washington DC.
Look....I work it every day of my life and have for years. Phrases and proclamations about healthcare have not fixed the problems in decades. In fact, I submit to you that healthcare is far worse today than just one decade ago. Let me give you 2 other examples. I wathced the O'Reilly interview with Hillary Clinton. On healthcare she said 2 ridiculous statments that in her mind, would lower costs.#1 She said Electronic Medical Records would lower costs to physicians. Nonsense. We have been a completely paperless EMR office since 2003. We have not had any reduction in office expenses. Just convenience and not losing paper records.#2. She said that she would "negotiate" better prices with doctors. Nonsense. "Negotiate better prices" is code for cutting reimbursement even more than it is now. Like I have said on this thread many times......we are paid less today per visit than we were paid in 1990. Who can say they are paid less for their product or service today than almost 20 years ago?

I agree with you in that "wellness and prevention" are popular buzzwords being offered up on many sides of the issue. "The Act even saves money through wellness and prevention" is of course lofty and wishful thinking..but not totally without merit.
As I said, I posted the link as example of another view which a person could use to formulate an independent opinion.
A friend sent me the following link some time ago: http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_un...

I spent quite a while researching the individual points made..and found them to be accurate for the most part..and support your point that healthcare in this country was better 10 years ago than it is today..I couldn't agree more.

I liked Joe Biden and Ron Paul in terms of their positions on healthcare. I would have voted for either one of them for that reason..as well as their position on other issues. As for the three in the ring so far..not much to draw from in my opinion regarding healthcare..but I agree with most everyone that our present system is derelict.

[Cheech the Conservative]

Still a hell of a lot better than Gov't control.Especially by hillarybitch.

Abner wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you in that "wellness and prevention" are popular buzzwords being offered up on many sides of the issue. "The Act even saves money through wellness and prevention" is of course lofty and wishful thinking..but not totally without merit.
As I said, I posted the link as example of another view which a person could use to formulate an independent opinion.
A friend sent me the following link some time ago: http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_un...
I spent quite a while researching the individual points made..and found them to be accurate for the most part..and support your point that healthcare in this country was better 10 years ago than it is today..I couldn't agree more.
I liked Joe Biden and Ron Paul in terms of their positions on healthcare. I would have voted for either one of them for that reason..as well as their position on other issues. As for the three in the ring so far..not much to draw from in my opinion regarding healthcare..but I agree with most everyone that our present system is derelict.

[Nomorlyes]

I think that it's pretty obvious that the United States should have universal health care. The government is already paying twice what other countries pay per person to provide health care to their citizens. The problem is that they don't want to regulate the prices. They allow the same company that's doing the service to formulate the method of payment and costs-sounds like some Republican logic to me.

So everyone that's against it thinks that a for-profit company with 30% overhead to factor in plus profit can be trusted with your health? Instead of a government agency like Medicare that only carries two to 3% overhead! Health care companies aren't in it for the health! They're in it for the profit! If one of the two is going to suffer which one do you think it will be?

Pretty obvious to me...

[No_oil_4_u]

Abner wrote:

<quoted text>
You read it? I'm impressed...but alas, your comprehension and mathematical skills have not improved since the last time..no surprise.
Although I posted the link for the benefit of those who might actually want to further educate themselves on the issue and ultimately form an independent opinion based on intelligent research and dialog, I fully expected the predictably irrelevant shallow minded yelping I've come to expect from you and your partners in pointlessness. An unavoidable hazard one must endure if posting on a thread imbedded with dullards such as you.
At any rate..I leave you again to wallow in your own blather. I'm sure you'll conjure up a brilliant response (if only in your opinion) but it will go on without rebuttal to avoid an ultimate exercise in futility.

I see. Now attack me because I disagree. That is the typical move of a liberal facist...attack the messenger and not the message. Got and understand it. Byeeee

[Cheech the Conservative]

This IS a bad year to be a Repub.These things swing back and forth.1994 was a very bad year to be Dem.If the Dems take the Whitehouse(I hope they do if it is NOT hillarybitch)they will have no GWB to blame.Only their own lib incompetence.2010 is going to be terrific revenge.UHC will NEVER pass as long as repubs keep 1/3 of the house OR senate.I really hope not,but I think Obama will be another Jimmy Carter.

Nomorlyes wrote:

I think that it's pretty obvious that the United States should have universal health care. The government is already paying twice what other countries pay per person to provide health care to their citizens. The problem is that they don't want to regulate the prices. They allow the same company that's doing the service to formulate the method of payment and costs-sounds like some Republican logic to me.
So everyone that's against it thinks that a for-profit company with 30% overhead to factor in plus profit can be trusted with your health? Instead of a government agency like Medicare that only carries two to 3% overhead! Health care companies aren't in it for the health! They're in it for the profit! If one of the two is going to suffer which one do you think it will be?
Pretty obvious to me...