Should the US have universal healthcare?

[running bare]

Crystal wrote:

And I'll add... With both a father and a grandfather who are doctors, the real problem with our healthcare system is insurance companies and lawsuite happy patients. They rob the common doctor of wages he should earn. Back in the day when grandpa made house visits and insurance didn't exist people did actually get the care they needed--for a reasonable price. Insurance cariers take the excess doctors should receive for their long hours and dedicated service and line their own pockets--or the pockets of their CEOs. And who suffers? Us. Oh, and anyone working in the medical field.

i agree 100% that the lawyers (tort attorneys...just like edwards) are hugely responsible for the high cost of medical coverage.

which puts hillary and john edwards in a strange position...they surely won't enact any tort reform...(hhhmmmm, how did edwards make his money? and bill vetoed it in the 90's) so, who covers the malpractice suits? does the government get sued? or, will there be no patient recourse?

this whole universal healthcare is just a way for clinton to control a huge part of the us...which is all she wants...total control.
(you liberals scream about "lost rights" under bush...wait, if clinton gets elected she's gonna OWN your ass...you'll wish for the good ole days of gwb!!!)

[wukong]

Turd Blossom wrote:

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everyone is subject to ones own opinion and i aint against folks.. it just aint practical... why should all folks pay such a high price.. we do in taxes already..when most folks.. only the degenerates that aint got healtcare already will use it...its not practical.. we defeated communism and socialism long ago.. no reason to move backwards

i think the problem is the money ISN'T being used as most would prefer. but there isn't a REALLY good arguement as to why one member of the "tribe" shouldn't be cared for when they are sick or i'll. the only good arguement is we care about some people more than others.....and i still don't accept that answer. i agree that socialism and communism are bad.....if take to their extremes. but the same can be said for capitalism. we need a balance, not a heavier weight on the end.

[Sultan of Swing]

We already have it in the Military. You think the Emergency room wait is long? Try going to sick call. Just what we need, another huge government bureaucracy to control how we, the productive in society live.

[Tove]

Brett Naum wrote:

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I guess our priorities differ. I have nothing against you trying to improve your life. I personally placed family needs as my priority over personal goals. It took me a long time to earn my degree as I worked fulltime while taking classes. I will always place emphasis on taking care of family needs first no matter how hard I have to work to do it. That is my job and no one else's. I do not expect anyone else to do it for me.

Health care and education are pretty basic things, I don't think one should get in the way of the other.

[Turd Blossom]

wukong wrote:

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i think the problem is the money ISN'T being used as most would prefer. but there isn't a REALLY good arguement as to why one member of the "tribe" shouldn't be cared for when they are sick or i'll. the only good arguement is we care about some people more than others.....and i still don't accept that answer. i agree that socialism and communism are bad.....if take to their extremes. but the same can be said for capitalism. we need a balance, not a heavier weight on the end.

now that.. i can agree with.. well said.. but whats the answer? i say privatize all healthcare...make it a competition.. dont governmentalize it completely.. government is evil in the purest form... socialism.. borderlining communism.. universal healthcare is bad.. and extreme

[Tove]

running bare wrote:

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every other country with universal (read as socialist) health care pays 50% or more.
might wanna do some checking...it could stop making you look stupid.

Do you really think all the extra money we pay in taxes goes to health care only?

[Tove]

Turd Blossom wrote:

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bc its socialism borderlinning communism which we defeated decades ago.. you live in sweden where socialistic ideals are rampant... we like our freedoms.. government is a waste.. power to the folks.. we aint need handouts... socialism is bad.. communism is bad..worse

I don't like communism anymore than you do.

[CitizenX]

Tove wrote:

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Costs of health care administration. It seems like yours is higher than the countries with universal health care. So why would your health care get more expensive if you get universal health care?

Tove, some facts:

"National Health Care Spending

In 2005, health care spending in the United States reached $2 trillion, and was projected to reach $2.9 trillion in 2009 (2). Health care spending is projected to reach $4 trillion by 2015 (2).
Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense (4).
In 2005, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent in the next decade (2).
Although nearly 47 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens (4).
Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (5)."

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

[CitizenX]

running bare wrote:

<quoted text>
every other country with universal (read as socialist) health care pays 50% or more.
might wanna do some checking...it could stop making you look stupid.

Actually you are the one looking stupid. She asked a few questions.

[CitizenX]

Tove wrote:

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I don't like communism anymore than you do.

Welcome to the ugly American syndrome Tove. Any assistance to citizens is seen as socialism or communism whereas billions to business is the American way.

[Brett Naum]

Tove wrote:

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Health care and education are pretty basic things, I don't think one should get in the way of the other.

Maybe so but neither should they be an entitlement that you get for nothing. Keep in mind that both areas are subjective to individual needs meaning that not everyone requires advanced education and not everyone requires the same amount of healthcare. Again, this should be up to me to acquire on my own and on my own terms and not the government. Sometimes you need to make sacrifices when choosing between "wants" and "needs". Personally, I think most people today want more healthcare than they need. You can't live forever and who would want to? People are increasingly becoming dependent on that "magical pill" to make them feel better versus taking responsibility to adhere to a healthier lifestyle with very few exceptions.

[wukong]

Turd Blossom wrote:

<quoted text>
now that.. i can agree with.. well said.. but whats the answer? i say privatize all healthcare...make it a competition.. dont governmentalize it completely.. government is evil in the purest form... socialism.. borderlining communism.. universal healthcare is bad.. and extreme

of course that might open the door to price fixing and gouging....much like gasoline. Um...i mean NOT like gasoline! because even if the price of OIL was going down when the price of GAS was going up, and they SWORE we had PLENTY to go around and there were NOT any shortages...only shotrages when they decided to refine LESS oil....it's NOT gouging.....they SAID so.

what's the answer? i don't know. i really really wish i did. i don't think ANY system will work on it's own. there has to be compromise and a MIDDLE ground to stand on......not a MY side YOUR side. the "right" is against the "left" and vice vera, and i'm in the scarey possition of being "we the people" in the middle!

i didn't really give you an answer DID i?

sorry!

[people1st]

I don't want politicians telling me which doctor or hospital to use. Or when I do or don't need tests.

[people1st]

Sultan of Swing wrote:

We already have it in the Military. You think the Emergency room wait is long? Try going to sick call. Just what we need, another huge government bureaucracy to control how we, the productive in society live.

Good point about the military. Hopefully, you can get an appointment on the day you are actually sick.

[Tove]

CitizenX wrote:

<quoted text>
Tove, some facts:
"National Health Care Spending
In 2005, health care spending in the United States reached $2 trillion, and was projected to reach $2.9 trillion in 2009 (2). Health care spending is projected to reach $4 trillion by 2015 (2).
Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense (4).
In 2005, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent in the next decade (2).
Although nearly 47 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens (4).
Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (5)."
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

So, this is what I really want to know, does the tax paying american citizen really end up spending less on health care than a tax paying citizen of any country with universal health care? Did anyone bother to find that out before they start whining about higher taxes?

[Tove]

Brett Naum wrote:

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Maybe so but neither should they be an entitlement that you get for nothing.

Why not? What's wrong with making sure that everyone gets health care and a good education? Seems like it would be an overall benifit for the country and the echonomy if people are healthy and educated.

[Tove]

CitizenX wrote:

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Actually you are the one looking stupid. She asked a few questions.

thanx :)

[CitizenX]

Tove wrote:

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So, this is what I really want to know, does the tax paying american citizen really end up spending less on health care than a tax paying citizen of any country with universal health care? Did anyone bother to find that out before they start whining about higher taxes?

They are all afraid of the boogeyman. "higher taxes", "socialism", "communism", etc. Reality rarely if ever enters into the equation.

They defend the free market system but ignore the fact that milk would be 10.00 a gallon without price supports. They celebrate capitalism but don't realize most businesses would fold without tax breaks or credits. They will gladly pay higher taxes to keep people from enjoying a harmless weed. The list goes on and on. Then they will scream bloody murder if you propose doing something for the less fortunate.

Private health scare is a scam in the hands of insurance and pro profit medical providers. By definition their goal is to lower their cost. Their cost are your medical needs.

[Brett Naum]

Tove wrote:

<quoted text>
Why not? What's wrong with making sure that everyone gets health care and a good education? Seems like it would be an overall benifit for the country and the echonomy if people are healthy and educated.

Ok, then why should I be taxed on the money that I work very hard for so that others can benefit?? What's my incentive to continue to do so if I am having it taken from me for the benefit of others that I may deem undeserving. Why should I have to continue to pay for any entitlement program that will never benefit me or my family?? Why do people feel that it is the governments job to take care of them at the expense of others instead of taking care of themselves??? I have a BIG problem with this. I've earned my way through life without handouts. Why isn't that the expectation for all?

[Tove]

CitizenX wrote:

<quoted text>
They are all afraid of the boogeyman. "higher taxes", "socialism", "communism", etc. Reality rarely if ever enters into the equation.
They defend the free market system but ignore the fact that milk would be 10.00 a gallon without price supports. They celebrate capitalism but don't realize most businesses would fold without tax breaks or credits. They will gladly pay higher taxes to keep people from enjoying a harmless weed. The list goes on and on. Then they will scream bloody murder if you propose doing something for the less fortunate.
Private health scare is a scam in the hands of insurance and pro profit medical providers. By definition their goal is to lower their cost. Their cost are your medical needs.

I agree, and especially the last part. I'd really like to see someone supporting the current health care system in US answer to that.