Should the US have universal healthcare?

[DUCK]

I guess it is time to start spelling our great country AMERIKA
EVERY ONE SEEMS TO WANT A FREE ON THE DOLE COUNTRY THAT PROVIDES EVERYTHING FOR THEM
I SAY TRY WORKING FOR A CHANGE
AND TOVE
THERE ARE WAY TO MANY CHILDREN THAT HAVE GROWN UP UNDER THEIR PARENT'S BEING ON WELFARE/ SO NOW THEY SAY MY PARENT'S MADE IT WHY NOT ME / A VICIOUS CYCLE IT WILL NEVER END

[Brett Naum]

Tove wrote:

<quoted text>
What about the children?

I take care of my children, why is that not the expectation for all parents? I do understand that there are a minority that do not have that ability. I am not opposed to assisting. My choice though, not the government tochoose for me. THe expectation that all of society should have to take on the burden of others poor choices is an unfair solution. I work hard and will do whatever it takes to ensure my own family is taken care of to include my close family of friends. I will never have my hand out to expect others to do it for me nor will any other member of my family(unless they want a hard kick to the rear end!)!! You can't save the world from irresponsible and incompetent parents. Increasing entitlements is a guarantee that you will breed more of them.

[Tove]

Straight Up wrote:

<quoted text>
My husband pays nearly 400 dollars a month for healthcare. The only thing it covers is health, there is no dental, no vision insurance. The policy we have will not pay for birth control,(which luckily I don't need) nor will it pay for many other medications. It won't help pay for smoking cessation products, but it will pay for chemotherapy...which shocked me, as I am trying to quit and doing not so well with no help.
My doctor's visit is 70 dollars. My copay is 45. So basically I pay 400 dollars a month for them to pay 25 each time I go to the doctor. Hope that gives you an idea of what it can pay. Others I am sure may pay more or less depending on where they live and cost of living.
To answer your other question about how much it would cost to get it not through his job, it would cost us nearly double that for less coverage, or that was what it would have costed us nearly 5 years ago when he was laid off from his job and was having trouble finding one.

Would that be 400 for you and your husband, or 400 each? Or 400 for you and your husband plus kids?
And is this the most common thing, to get your insurance through your job and not the employer actually paying for all of it?
Sorry, many questions, but I'm just trying to understand exactly how it works.
And thanx for answering :)

[Tove]

Brett Naum wrote:

<quoted text>
I take care of my children, why is that not the expectation for all parents? I do understand that there are a minority that do not have that ability. I am not opposed to assisting. My choice though, not the government tochoose for me. THe expectation that all of society should have to take on the burden of others poor choices is an unfair solution. I work hard and will do whatever it takes to ensure my own family is taken care of to include my close family of friends. I will never have my hand out to expect others to do it for me nor will any other member of my family(unless they want a hard kick to the rear end!)!! You can't save the world from irresponsible and incompetent parents. Increasing entitlements is a guarantee that you will breed more of them.

Lazy people bug me too, and I do understand your way of reasoning, but not everyone who can't afford health insurance is lazy. I wouldn't be able to afford it because I'm studying.
Or do you think it's wrong of me to get an education in order to improve the future for me and my son?
There will always be people who will take advantage of the system, but for me that is not reason enough to not help the ones who are doing their best with what they have and the situation they're in.

[Ya Ya]

Lets see Government healthcare... from the people who brought you the $ 700 hammer and the $400 toilet seat... what will we get? A $ 1,000 aspirin?

We already have a universal healthcare system in the USA by which we can judge what a total system. It is called the Veterans Administration. take a look at the level of healthcare that the VA provides and thats what you will get..

[Brett Naum]

Tove wrote:

<quoted text>
Lazy people bug me too, and I do understand your way of reasoning, but not everyone who can't afford health insurance is lazy. I wouldn't be able to afford it because I'm studying.
Or do you think it's wrong of me to get an education in order to improve the future for me and my son?
There will always be people who will take advantage of the system, but for me that is not reason enough to not help the ones who are doing their best with what they have and the situation they're in.

I guess our priorities differ. I have nothing against you trying to improve your life. I personally placed family needs as my priority over personal goals. It took me a long time to earn my degree as I worked fulltime while taking classes. I will always place emphasis on taking care of family needs first no matter how hard I have to work to do it. That is my job and no one else's. I do not expect anyone else to do it for me.

[Observer]

My job is healthcare. I spend each and every work day dealing with sick patients and their insurance carriers. Let me set the record straight with some facts.

Doctors are not paid millions like everyone thinks. The physician in my office makes no more than an average college professor. Let's talk about lawyers, sports players, movie stars, television talking heads, etc. Television shows like Doctor 90210 has skewed the facts and gives people an unreasonable view of what "real" medicine involves.

Second, commercial carrier insurance like BCBS, UnitedHealthcare, Cigna, Aetna has learned a valuable lesson from the government. They can charge high monthly premiums but at the same time lower reimbursements to doctors and hospitals. Where I live, these carriers have pretty much lowered their pay to doctors to just above what our state Medicaid program pays physicians.

Third, healthcare is so advanced in the US that people live much longer compliments of better medicine and better medical surgical/pharmacological techniques. Yes, they live longer but they live with costly problems that healthcare must pay for. Years ago, these sickly patients died and stopped the "money flow" to medical practioners from insurance.

Fourth, no matter what anyone says including the so-called legal experts, medical malpractic lawsuits are a huge problem. We pay thousands a year for "protection" with our malpractice insurance. But it goes further than suing doctors and hospitals. A current lawsuit being litagated involves a Class Action against many state's BCBS programs. According to the suit, BCBS unfairly paid claims since 2003. But here's the rub, the legal fees, if successful, have been set at $50,000,000 to the lawyers alone. Yes millions!! Do you think BCBS will absorb that or pass it to the general public with BCBS insurance?

I could go on for 10 more paragraphs and will if posters want to hear and understand more on this subject. Just ask me......

[Turd Blossom]

Tove wrote:

<quoted text>
What about the children?

this is America.. aint sweden.. we aint a socialistic society.. we are capitalists.. free market.. not government controlled... we defeated communism decades ago.. no reason to move backwards..and have folks all pay a huge chunk of money that aint fixin to be used by all enough to justify the costs.. we already do that in TAXES

[Observer]

To prove my point about legal fees that I absolutely know someone will refute, here is the exact paragraph cut and pasted below from the BCBS lawsuit. The attorneys will be awarded 50 million while the patients, doctors, and hospitals will get a fraction of that amount. Guess who pays for these types of settlements?

"VIII. WHAT ABOUT ATTORNEYS’ FEES, COSTS, AND EXPENSES?
If the Court approves the proposed Settlement, Class Counsel will apply to the Court for an award of attorneys’ fees,
including costs and expenses. In the Settlement Agreement, the Blue Parties have agreed not to oppose such an application
in the aggregate amount of up to $50,168,365. If the Court awards attorneys’ fees and expenses in an amount no greater than
that amount, the Blue Plans will pay the amount awarded by the Court to Class Counsel. This payment is in addition to the
settlement consideration to the Class Members that is described above and will not reduce the amount available to Class
Members if the Settlement is approved."

[wukong]

no....OBVIOUSLY some people are more important than OTHERS. you see...if we start caring for ALL of our people, eventually someone will point out that EVERYONE in this world are REAL people....then we'll have to make sure EVERYONE is treated with the same care, kindness, and respect.

...THEN what kind of world would we live in?!?!?!?

...that's sarcasm, kiddies.

[TGC]

Observer wrote:

My job is healthcare. I spend each and every work day dealing with sick patients and their insurance carriers. Let me set the record straight with some facts.
Doctors are not paid millions like everyone thinks. The physician in my office makes no more than an average college professor. Let's talk about lawyers, sports players, movie stars, television talking heads, etc. Television shows like Doctor 90210 has skewed the facts and gives people an unreasonable view of what "real" medicine involves.
Second, commercial carrier insurance like BCBS, UnitedHealthcare, Cigna, Aetna has learned a valuable lesson from the government. They can charge high monthly premiums but at the same time lower reimbursements to doctors and hospitals. Where I live, these carriers have pretty much lowered their pay to doctors to just above what our state Medicaid program pays physicians.
Third, healthcare is so advanced in the US that people live much longer compliments of better medicine and better medical surgical/pharmacological techniques. Yes, they live longer but they live with costly problems that healthcare must pay for. Years ago, these sickly patients died and stopped the "money flow" to medical practioners from insurance.
Fourth, no matter what anyone says including the so-called legal experts, medical malpractic lawsuits are a huge problem. We pay thousands a year for "protection" with our malpractice insurance. But it goes further than suing doctors and hospitals. A current lawsuit being litagated involves a Class Action against many state's BCBS programs. According to the suit, BCBS unfairly paid claims since 2003. But here's the rub, the legal fees, if successful, have been set at $50,000,000 to the lawyers alone. Yes millions!! Do you think BCBS will absorb that or pass it to the general public with BCBS insurance?
I could go on for 10 more paragraphs and will if posters want to hear and understand more on this subject. Just ask me......

Ask any newly graduated MD how much debt he has. Medical School and the undergraduate school before can easily give the MD a debt load in excess of 300,000. Interns and residents make little for long hours. Most Doctors, or dentists don't start to be able to have a life until their late thirties, or forties.

[El Gato]

Tove wrote:

<quoted text>
What about the children?

Quoted for lol.

[Crystal]

Hey, if you want your doctor visit to be like going to the DMV, sure! What the heck! Personally I believe any SOCIALIZED program damages our economy by taking the market to away from being SERVICE oriented. Look at what's happening to most public schools. Do we really want that for our healthcare too? Oh, by the way, the reason the rest of the world has decent medicine is because the US foots the bill for Drug research and developement. Take that away and they will stop producing new technologies and medicines. Ya, that sounds like a great option!

[Turd Blossom]

wukong wrote:

no....OBVIOUSLY some people are more important than OTHERS. you see...if we start caring for ALL of our people, eventually someone will point out that EVERYONE in this world are REAL people....then we'll have to make sure EVERYONE is treated with the same care, kindness, and respect.
...THEN what kind of world would we live in?!?!?!?
...that's sarcasm, kiddies.

'

everyone is subject to ones own opinion and i aint against folks.. it just aint practical... why should all folks pay such a high price.. we do in taxes already..when most folks.. only the degenerates that aint got healtcare already will use it...its not practical.. we defeated communism and socialism long ago.. no reason to move backwards

[Crystal]

And I'll add... With both a father and a grandfather who are doctors, the real problem with our healthcare system is insurance companies and lawsuite happy patients. They rob the common doctor of wages he should earn. Back in the day when grandpa made house visits and insurance didn't exist people did actually get the care they needed--for a reasonable price. Insurance cariers take the excess doctors should receive for their long hours and dedicated service and line their own pockets--or the pockets of their CEOs. And who suffers? Us. Oh, and anyone working in the medical field.

[Okie]

The private sector does nearly everything better than Government. Has to do with competition. Government monopoly takes away incentives and adds inefficiencies through beaurocracy.

[Turd Blossom]

Okie wrote:

The private sector does nearly everything better than Government. Has to do with competition. Government monopoly takes away incentives and adds inefficiencies through beaurocracy.

well said bubba.. i 100% agree hence i said completely privatize healthcare

[Turd Blossom]

Crystal wrote:

And I'll add... With both a father and a grandfather who are doctors, the real problem with our healthcare system is insurance companies and lawsuite happy patients. They rob the common doctor of wages he should earn. Back in the day when grandpa made house visits and insurance didn't exist people did actually get the care they needed--for a reasonable price. Insurance cariers take the excess doctors should receive for their long hours and dedicated service and line their own pockets--or the pockets of their CEOs. And who suffers? Us. Oh, and anyone working in the medical field.

well said

[running bare]

Tove wrote:

<quoted text>
You wouldn't need to pay 50% of your income in order to have universal health care.
Also it seems like you spend an awful lot of money on admin. Doesn't that bother you?

every other country with universal (read as socialist) health care pays 50% or more.
might wanna do some checking...it could stop making you look stupid.

[Turd Blossom]

Tove wrote:

<quoted text>
why?

bc its socialism borderlinning communism which we defeated decades ago.. you live in sweden where socialistic ideals are rampant... we like our freedoms.. government is a waste.. power to the folks.. we aint need handouts... socialism is bad.. communism is bad..worse