'The War Is Not Over'

'The War Is Not Over'

There are 276656 comments on the Los Angeles Times story from Sep 12, 2006, titled 'The War Is Not Over'. In it, Los Angeles Times reports that:

WASHINGTON - President Bush led the nation on Monday in marking the fifth anniversary of the Sept.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Los Angeles Times.

“Never run from a fight.”

Since: Dec 06

Vista, Ca.

#281407 Jul 11, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
My Reply to your post is as follows:
A. On Iraq:
You post speak of Highhanded ness of USA. Clinton asked Saddam to Go, Bush “ordered” Saddam to go? What rights these US Presidents have to “order” some one to go?
Would US like if someone “asked or ordered” Obama to resign and go?
This is what I call interfering into the affairs of other nations? Every powerful nation “believes” that they have God Given Right to order and interfere into other nation’s affairs but no one should interfere into their own affairs.
Russia, China and so many nations also have WMD s, why can’t USA “advise and order” them to destroy it?
And USA itself as the biggest stockiest of these weapons, what moral right it has to order other nations to destroy it?
B. On Israel:
Either you are ignorant or playing naïve. It was US and British which allowed large scale Jews migration to Palestine when they got foothold there after end of WW-1.
If you are going thru history and agreeing that it is OK for any nation to dispossess another, then why should you find fault Muslims to take it back from jews?
You should leave them alone and settle the dispute between themselves, why should you be a party to one side only?
C. On UNO:
No one listens to UNO, because these so called Superpowers with their Veto powers have made it a laughing stock.
They veto any resolution whenever they please and then there is no appeal against that veto.
They enforce UN resolutions only against small nations and mostly Muslim nations and forget all others.
That is the main cause of UN ‘s lack of authority. After the fall of USSR, US and NATO have seen to it that it is no longer a functional body.
At best it is a rubber stamp of these countries. So US should blame itself and its partners for the plight of UNO.
A. On Iraq

You act as if the Bush ultimatum occurred in a vacuum. As if we just randomly picked Saddam. He invaded three countries, broke written peace agreements and don’t forget the biggest reason of all--
AMERICANS WERE BEING KILLED IN AMERICA BECAUSE WE WERE STILL STANDING GUARD IN SAUDI ARABIA!

Muslims certainly interfered in the internal affairs of the US on 9-11. And the Muslim response to 9-11 was to blame Americans for it, because nothing is ever YOUR FAULT you are just VICTIMS!

B. Israel

After WW1 the US went home, so don’t blame Jews in Palestine on us.
I’m not blaming Muslims for wanting Israel back. Go for it and see what happens. The Jews won and they will continue to win because they HAVE to. They saw what happens to Jews when there is no Jewish state and they will NEVER AGAIN let that happen. If you guys want to trade Mecca, Medina Tehran, Damascus, Cairo, Beirut, Amman, and Riyadh for a strip of land smaller than New Jersey—Go For IT!
Question—do you still want Spain back as well.
Why do Muslims have more right to Israel than do the Jews?

C. UN

The UN is fundamentally flawed. It is not a legislative organization designed to regulate and maintain peace. It has degenerated into a political organization ran by politicians seeking political gains and the expense of other members. Even when a consensus is reached in the General Assembly all members of the Security Council must agree (seldom happens). Then here is the Big Kicker—they have to enforce it! Never been done without the use of American troops.
Gosch Foundation

Ishpeming, MI

#281408 Jul 11, 2012
Capitalist wars:
4,415 US Iraq war deaths
1.3 million Iraqis murdered
4,236 killed in Afghanistan
15 million murdered in World War I
45 million murdered in World War II

“Never run from a fight.”

Since: Dec 06

Vista, Ca.

#281410 Jul 11, 2012
Gosch Foundation wrote:
Capitalist wars:
4,415 US Iraq war deaths
1.3 million Iraqis murdered
4,236 killed in Afghanistan
15 million murdered in World War I
45 million murdered in World War II
And yet communist (not capitalist) killed more people in the last century than any other group.

WHY?
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#281411 Jul 11, 2012
News you will not see or hear on CNN and FOX News

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...

For Israel, Punishing Palestinians is not Enough

An ongoing hunger strike by nearly 2,000 Palestinian inmates stands as a reminder of their humanity, but Israelis are more interested in revenge.

By Amira Hass

May 02, 2012 "Information Clearing House" -- In faraway, frozen Finland – otherwise known as the infirmary of Ramle Prison – the lives of four detainees who have been on a hunger strike for at least 60 days hang in the balance. Nearly 2,000 inmates in the Nafha, Ashkelon, Gilboa and other prisons around Israel have been on hunger strike for two weeks. The very fact of their decision to refuse food and their willingness to risk being punished by the authorities stands as a reminder of their humanity.

The Israel Prison Service does not have to make much of an effort to conceal this mass action from Israeli eyes. The great majority of Israelis label all incarcerated Palestinians as conscienceless murderers or common terrorists, at the least. They have little interest in acts of personal or collective courage on the part of Palestinian detainees that serve as reminders that they are human beings.

Administrative detainees have been held without trial for years under emergency regulations inspired by the British Mandate. It’s not important. Hundreds of prisoners from the Gaza Strip haven’t seen their families for six or more years. Why should anyone care?

When Gilad Shalit was in captivity in Gaza, the cancelation of visits for Gazan prisoners in Israel was presented as “proportionate pressure.” After his release, Israelis don’t care that this sort of proportionality goes on, and that family visits were not restored. So what? Why should we care that Palestinians are kept in isolation for years on end and barred from seeing their families for three, five or 10 years? Any normal prison administration would welcome prisoners’ demand to go back to studying through the Open University. Studies reduce stress and tension levels in prison. But the name of the game here is submission.

Palestinian prisoners are given names and faces in the Israeli news media only if they can demonstrate their “contemptibility.” Their names and faces are not mentioned in the context of their personal, family and national history for more than 60 years: expulsion, exile, destruction of their homes, the injury and killing of friends and family members by Israeli soldiers, or trifles such as beatings by soldiers or expropriation of their land by government officials.

Palestinian prisoners are mentioned in terms of the number of life sentences they are serving. But Israel’s revered army generals, retired and on active duty, are responsible for killing many more Palestinian (and Lebanese ) civilians than the number of Israeli civilians killed by the Palestinian prisoners.

History – praise be to Clio, the Greek muse of history – is no longer written only by the victors. But the conquerors still decide who is the hero, who is the soldier who acts as the judge and who is the defendant who is declared a terrorist even before he is convicted. The Palestinians are not recognized as prisoners of war whose weapons are less advanced, less sophisticated than those of their jailers.

MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#281412 Jul 11, 2012
Israelis are not satisfied with the various measures to worsen their prison conditions. When it comes to Palestinians, punishment is not enough. Prison must also be never-ending revenge that extends what Israel tries to do outside its walls as well: to break up the collective, to weaken the individual, to deter others from resistance to the foreign regime.

The hunger strike is, in effect, a protest against these goals. Not all of the Palestinian prisoners have joined it. In prison, as outside of it, Palestinian political and social cohesion has declined, and many of the inmates lack the cultural and social awareness of their predecessors. Nevertheless, the hunger strike underlines the fundamentally political nature of the collective of Palestinians incarcerated in Israel.

Amira Hass is the Haaretz correspondent for the Occupied Territories.
This article was first published at the Haaretz
Reinhard Gelhen

Ishpeming, MI

#281413 Jul 11, 2012
arbitrageur wrote:
Despite Bain Attacks, Obama Still Struggling
http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2012/07/de...
not for long! Video) LIBOR Banking Scandal: Crime of the Century - Mystic Politics
By Robert Scheer - Forget Bernie Madoff and Enron's Ken Lay—they were mere
... Caught as the proverbial deer in the headlights, Barclays Chairman Robert E.
Diamond Jr..... Xenu and Kolob – Where Mormonism meets Scientology ...
http://mysticpolitics.com/video-libor-banking ...- 53k -
Robert Diamond, who today stepped down as chief executive of Barclays Plc, will no longer co-host a London campaign fundraiser this month for presumptive U.S. Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul confirmed.
Diamond, 60, will step down as CEO immediately, the London-based bank said in a statement today, a day before he faces questions by British lawmakers. Diamond became CEO of Barclays on Jan. 1, 2011 after joining the bank in 1996.
Romney, who has had great success in fundraising among Wall Street bankers, plans a fundraiser during his trip to London for the Summer Olympics starting there on July 27. He also plans a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel.
Reinhard Gelhen

Ishpeming, MI

#281414 Jul 11, 2012
Mitt Romney's Neocon War Cabinet | The Nation
May 2, 2012 ... That included Mitt Romney, marginally more polished than his rivals but hardly
an expert.... Cohen was a tutor to Bush administration neocons.

http://www.thenation.com/article/167683/mitt-... - 81k -
Reinhard Gelhen

Ishpeming, MI

#281415 Jul 11, 2012
Like Most Neocons, Mitt Romney Avoided the Draft During Vietnam ...
Jun 8, 2012 ... Mitt Romney has built his international relations team out of many, if not most, of
the same neocons whose “bomb first, ask questions never”...

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2012/06/08/like-... - 42k -
courteous Europhobe

Bangor, ME

#281416 Jul 12, 2012
Reinhard Gelhen wrote:
Like Most Neocons, Mitt Romney Avoided the Draft During Vietnam ...
Jun 8, 2012 ... Mitt Romney has built his international relations team out of many, if not most, of
the same neocons whose “bomb first, ask questions never”...
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2012/06/08/like-... - 42k -
"ask questions never"/??//So what questions were asked about Libya , Maam?

Maybe ones like?

Is Ka Daffy trying to escape? well that is flight, right? And we were there,... after all>>> enforcing a no fly zone...
Henry

Chemnitz, Germany

#281417 Jul 12, 2012
Gosch Foundation wrote:
Capitalist wars:
4,415 US Iraq war deaths
1.3 million Iraqis murdered
4,236 killed in Afghanistan
15 million murdered in World War I
45 million murdered in World War II
Capitalism and wars are twins.

“Never run from a fight.”

Since: Dec 06

Vista, Ca.

#281418 Jul 12, 2012
MUQ wrote:
Israelis are not satisfied with the various measures to worsen their prison conditions. When it comes to Palestinians, punishment is not enough. Prison must also be never-ending revenge that extends what Israel tries to do outside its walls as well: to break up the collective, to weaken the individual, to deter others from resistance to the foreign regime.
The hunger strike is, in effect, a protest against these goals. Not all of the Palestinian prisoners have joined it. In prison, as outside of it, Palestinian political and social cohesion has declined, and many of the inmates lack the cultural and social awareness of their predecessors. Nevertheless, the hunger strike underlines the fundamentally political nature of the collective of Palestinians incarcerated in Israel.
Amira Hass is the Haaretz correspondent for the Occupied Territories.
This article was first published at the Haaretz
Are you meddling in Israel’s internal affairs?

“Never run from a fight.”

Since: Dec 06

Vista, Ca.

#281419 Jul 12, 2012
Henry wrote:
<quoted text>
Capitalism and wars are twins.
So if we ended capitalism there would be no more wars??????????
Why is it communist (not capitalist) killed more people in the last century than any other group.

WHY?
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#281420 Jul 12, 2012
Dave wrote:
A. On Iraq

You act as if the Bush ultimatum occurred in a vacuum. As if we just randomly picked Saddam. He invaded three countries, broke written peace agreements and don’t forget the biggest reason of all--
AMERICANS WERE BEING KILLED IN AMERICA BECAUSE WE WERE STILL STANDING GUARD IN SAUDI ARABIA!

Muslims certainly interfered in the internal affairs of the US on 9-11. And the Muslim response to 9-11 was to blame Americans for it, because nothing is ever YOUR FAULT you are just VICTIMS!

B. Israel

After WW1 the US went home, so don’t blame Jews in Palestine on us.
I’m not blaming Muslims for wanting Israel back. Go for it and see what happens. The Jews won and they will continue to win because they HAVE to. They saw what happens to Jews when there is no Jewish state and they will NEVER AGAIN let that happen. If you guys want to trade Mecca, Medina Tehran, Damascus, Cairo, Beirut, Amman, and Riyadh for a strip of land smaller than New Jersey—Go For IT!
Question—do you still want Spain back as well.
Why do Muslims have more right to Israel than do the Jews?

C. UN

The UN is fundamentally flawed. It is not a legislative organization designed to regulate and maintain peace. It has degenerated into a political organization ran by politicians seeking political gains and the expense of other members. Even when a consensus is reached in the General Assembly all members of the Security Council must agree (seldom happens). Then here is the Big Kicker—they have to enforce it! Never been done without the use of American troops.
Ans.

A. Iraq

What rights your Bush the Great have to issue ultimatums to other nations? What did he think he was and what do you think your nation is?

Are you the Policemen of the Earth? Does not your tone speak as if you own the whole world?

What else is arrogance? And would this attitude earn your friends or enemies?

You are no friends of Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Iraq or any Muslim nation in the world. Your interest in ME is only because of its oil, otherwise you will not look towards them even if they pay you.

B. Israel:

So you mean to say whatever happened in Palestine after WW-1 was not having the approval of USA? Why are you behaving like a little child?

And how come US became the FIRST country to recognize during the dead of night? They did not even wait for the day break.

And if you have nothing for Arabs and Muslims to win back the land of Palestine, how come you put all your support, all your energies and all your money for saving and safeguarding Israel?

US was NEVER an honest peace broker in this dispute, because they always speak with their fingers tied behind the back and those fingers show the “unbreakable vow” they have taken to save and safeguard that Zionist state.

How much it is costing USA in short term and long term will be known to the historians. What I see is that they are bleeding USA dry.

Yes we want to take back Spain and any land where we touched our feet.

C. UN

Un was created with high hopes that it would be an international body where disputes between nations shall be solved.

But it had a fatal flaw in it to allow those so called Superpowers to use their Veto powers.\When USA and USSR were holding that Status, in almost every issue they were at cross purpose. So they would veto each and every resolution where their interests were concerned.

That is how they made it a debating club.

ONLY issue on which US, USSR and other “minnow” Superpowers were Unanimous was safety and security of Israel. Can you believe it?

In one world that shows what UNO is!!

MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#281421 Jul 12, 2012
Dave C wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you meddling in Israel’s internal affairs?
Isreal has no "internal" affairs, it is an usurpation and has to be dissolved to bring matters to their right course.

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

May the Force be with You .

#281422 Jul 12, 2012
MUQ your words are pointed in the wrong direction the world is protecting Israel ,have you noticed ?

“Never run from a fight.”

Since: Dec 06

Vista, Ca.

#281423 Jul 12, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
A. Iraq
What rights your Bush the Great have to issue ultimatums to other nations? What did he think he was and what do you think your nation is?
Are you the Policemen of the Earth? Does not your tone speak as if you own the whole world?
What else is arrogance? And would this attitude earn your friends or enemies?
You are no friends of Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Iraq or any Muslim nation in the world. Your interest in ME is only because of its oil, otherwise you will not look towards them even if they pay you.
B. Israel:
So you mean to say whatever happened in Palestine after WW-1 was not having the approval of USA? Why are you behaving like a little child?
And how come US became the FIRST country to recognize during the dead of night? They did not even wait for the day break.
And if you have nothing for Arabs and Muslims to win back the land of Palestine, how come you put all your support, all your energies and all your money for saving and safeguarding Israel?
US was NEVER an honest peace broker in this dispute, because they always speak with their fingers tied behind the back and those fingers show the “unbreakable vow” they have taken to save and safeguard that Zionist state.
How much it is costing USA in short term and long term will be known to the historians. What I see is that they are bleeding USA dry.
Yes we want to take back Spain and any land where we touched our feet.
C. UN
Un was created with high hopes that it would be an international body where disputes between nations shall be solved.
But it had a fatal flaw in it to allow those so called Superpowers to use their Veto powers.\When USA and USSR were holding that Status, in almost every issue they were at cross purpose. So they would veto each and every resolution where their interests were concerned.
That is how they made it a debating club.
ONLY issue on which US, USSR and other “minnow” Superpowers were Unanimous was safety and security of Israel. Can you believe it?
In one world that shows what UNO is!!
A. Iraq

There is no world policeman.

There was no world policeman to stop Hitler from invading Poland. No world policeman to stop Saddam from invading Kuwait, Japan from invading China, etc. etc There is no one to enforce it and that is why there is NO INTERNATIONAL LAW AND ORDER. That is why there are wars and that is why we spend trillions on armies.

Every country acts in its own self-interest first, the self-interest of its allies second and the interest of the rest of the world last. Americans civilians were being attacked and killed in their homeland and that alone gave Bush the right to demand Saddam step down.

B. Israel

So you have chosen war with Israel and war with Spain. I’m not surprised. Your religion allows you to take from others and from then on it always belongs to you even if they take it back. This is why Islam has such bloody borders. Islam doesn’t mean peace it means war—constant and eternal.

We had lots of reasons for the recognition of Israel
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/israel/palestin....

C. UN

Yes I can believe it. There are a lots of Jews in the Super Power countries. You’re a Muslim and you have sympathy for Muslims in Palestine, so you understand very well Jewish sympathy for Israelis. The Jews in the Super Power countries would probably like to see the destruction of all Arab and Muslim countries before witnessing the destruction of Israel.

Just keep pushing, something is bound to happen sooner or later.

BTW-we also have lots of people of Spanish ancestry who would prefer the destruction of the Muslim world before it retook Spain.
frank

Oakland, CA

#281424 Jul 12, 2012
The IRS estimates that about $5 trillion in assets are held worldwide in tax havens by mega wealthy Americans like Romney, which costs Uncle Sam about $100 billion in revenue annually. It makes one wonder, why does he want to be your president, what exactly is his agenda – I bet it doesn’t include you or me! Romney and his fellow GOPers have repeatedly argued that raising taxes on "job creators" would harm the economy. The release of multiple years of Romney's tax records would clearly show that it is not true. What or who are this “job creators?” Some sort of magical being that can wave a wand whenever it please and puff – jobs everywhere? When in fact the only people that create jobs are we, the middle class going shopping, buying cars and groceries and all kinds of other shit that we don’t even need -- that is what creates the demand to manufacture goods and as a result – JOBS!!!! Jobs are a consequence of a circle-of-life like feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion this virtuous cycle of increasing demand and hiring. I you were to start dozens of companies, and hired lots of people because Romney loaned you a gazillion $, but if there was no one around who could afford to buy what you had to sell, all those companies, and all those jobs, would quickly evaporate.

“Never run from a fight.”

Since: Dec 06

Vista, Ca.

#281425 Jul 12, 2012
frank wrote:
The IRS estimates that about $5 trillion in assets are held worldwide in tax havens by mega wealthy Americans like Romney, which costs Uncle Sam about $100 billion in revenue annually. It makes one wonder, why does he want to be your president, what exactly is his agenda – I bet it doesn’t include you or me! Romney and his fellow GOPers have repeatedly argued that raising taxes on "job creators" would harm the economy. The release of multiple years of Romney's tax records would clearly show that it is not true. What or who are this “job creators?” Some sort of magical being that can wave a wand whenever it please and puff – jobs everywhere? When in fact the only people that create jobs are we, the middle class going shopping, buying cars and groceries and all kinds of other shit that we don’t even need -- that is what creates the demand to manufacture goods and as a result – JOBS!!!! Jobs are a consequence of a circle-of-life like feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion this virtuous cycle of increasing demand and hiring. I you were to start dozens of companies, and hired lots of people because Romney loaned you a gazillion $, but if there was no one around who could afford to buy what you had to sell, all those companies, and all those jobs, would quickly evaporate.
So it is the Middle Class’s fault there are no jobs???
Sandy

Ishpeming, MI

#281426 Jul 12, 2012
frank

Oakland, CA

#281427 Jul 12, 2012
Dave C wrote:
<quoted text>
So it is the Middle Class’s fault there are no jobs???
Huh? That is your take-away – aren’t you some sort of engineer? No wait, you must be a rightwing-economist-hack ;-/
Think of the American economy as a large apartment block. A century ago – or even 30 years ago – it was the object of envy. But in the last generation its character has started to change. The penthouses at the top keep getting larger and more luxurious. The apartments in the middle are feeling more and more squeezed and a bit shabby, the basement has flooded altogether. To round it off, the only working elevator goes straight to the top. It is otherwise known as the great “Middle Class Squeeze’! The middle class’s wealth has fallen by close to 40 percent as a result of the financial crisis, and is now at the same level as it was 20 years ago. The middle class, that great engine of the ever-expanding American economy is out of cash – it’s all gone to the top.

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