Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CNN

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#22671
Mar 24, 2013
 
2. Smith said he received D. & C. 45:62-71 on March 7, 1831. It says to “gather up your riches that ye may purchase an inheritance which shall hereafter be appointed unto you. And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God… and the wicked shall not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion…The righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion.” In D. & C. 57:1-5 Smith said the Lord consecrated Independence, Missouri as the place for the gathering and as an everlasting inheritance. And D. & C. 133:4-7 commands “Gather ye together, O ye people of my (LDS) church, upon the land of Zion… the time has come when the voice of the Lord is unto you…gather ye out from among the nations.”

Result: LDS in 1831 were told to buy land around Independence, MO, and gather there. But they were driven out, so it was not a place of peace, safety and refuge for them. LDS from all nations never occupied “Zion” nor is it an everlasting inheritance for LDS today.

3. Smith said he received D. & C. 84:1-5 on September 22-23, 1832 in which the Lord said that Zion or New Jerusalem “shall be built, beginning at the temple lot…in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri…by the gathering of the saints beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord.” D. & C. 97:19-20 also says “Zion (in Independence, MO) is the city of our God and surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place, for God is there, and the hand of the Lord is there and he hath sworn by the power of his might to be her salvation and her high tower.”

Result: The second LDS Prophet, Brigham Young said that a generation only lasts from 27 to 29 years (Journal of Discourses vol. 12, p.118). The generation alive in 1832 all died long ago, yet nothing in D. & C. 84:1-5 was fulfilled. Conflicts with the people in Independence, MO, led LDS leaders to enter a treaty to leave two weeks before D. & C. 97: 19-20 was given by Smith (History of the Church vol. I, p. 394). He didn’t know that because he was in Kirtland, OH when he gave that prophecy, but the Lord surely should have known it! Since these prophecies weren’t fulfilled like D. & C. 1:37 said they would be, they didn’t come from God and Smith was a false prophet.

http://www.utahchristianpub.org/articles/lds-...

The belief that the Saints would still be gathering at Missouri remind popular among the members. So popular the leaders had to refute it:

Myth #2: The entire Church will be gathered to Missouri. Here recent prophets have been quite specific. President Spencer W. Kimball said in October Conference, 1978:“We are building up the strength of Zion—her cords or stakes—throughout the world. Therefore, we counsel our people to remain in their native lands and gather out the elect of God and teach them the ways of the Lord. There temples are being built and the saints will be blessed wherever they live in all the world.”(Ensign, Nov. 1978, p. 76.)

More to come...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

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#22673
Mar 24, 2013
 
During the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, it was essential for members of the Church to “gather to Zion” for their own spiritual and physical safety. But now that temples, welfare proJects, educational facilities, genealogical research libraries, and the blessings of a full church organization in stakes are available, this gathering is no longer required or wise. And although the Church purchased some Clay County land last December, it was solely for investment purposes—not for other Church use. At a general conference, President Harold B. Lee stressed the point made by Elder Bruce R. McConkie at the Mexico City Area Conference:“‘The place of gathering for the Mexican Saints is in Mexico; … and so it goes throughout the length and breadth of the whole earth. Japan is for the Japanese; Korea is for the Koreans; Australia is for the Australians; every nation is the gathering place for its own people.’”(Ensign, July 1973, p. 5.)

But note, they go on to say:

Of course, there will be special functions of the temple in Jackson County, but worldwide gatherings of the Saints to Missouri may not be necessary, or desired—after all, the mission of members is to always share the gospel with the nonmembers who surround them throughout the world, and this activity will undoubtedly continue after the Second Coming. Elder Harold B. Lee further cautioned the Saints in all lands to be guided by the current prophet, not by rumor or supposition, and “look forward to the instruction that shall come to them from the First Presidency of this Church as to where they shall be gathered and not be disturbed in their feelings until such instruction is given to them as it is revealed by the Lord to the proper authority”(In Conference Report, Apr. 1948, p. 55).

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/04/missouri-m...

The church still thinks they will get to build a temple there someday. Also the last sentence is interesting:

"further cautioned the Saints in all lands to be guided by the current prophet, not by rumor or supposition, and “look forward to the instruction that shall come to them from the First Presidency of this Church as to where they shall be gathered and not be disturbed in their feelings until such instruction is given to them as it is revealed by the Lord to the proper authority”

They are giving themselves a back door out if they decide to change their minds. Joseph Smith wasn't a "proper authority?"

I know for a fact my parents believed they could have been called to gather and where prepared to do so. So Protestor was telling the truth about this LDS Urban Legend. I don't doubt many members still believe this.

How come are you ignorant about it, Not Surprise?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

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#22674
Mar 24, 2013
 
It's the myth that still isn't a myth to believing members.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#22675
Mar 24, 2013
 
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text> But when are you going to say something new?? Lol
She is like watching a bad rerun of the "Love Boat", tedious and boring. LOL!!!

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#22676
Mar 24, 2013
 
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
How are mormons earning their salvation? Where in the standard works does it say to earn your salvation? I'm a mormon and I believe there is nothing I can do on my own that will save me from death and my sins.
Time to take you back to Mormonism 101. Let's start with the Articles of Faith:

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind MAY be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Not by the grace of Jesus Christ, but by "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

Starting with:

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by eimmersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

But that is only the beginning, that alone will not get you to the greatest degree of glory, and everybody wants the best God has to offer, yes? But according to Mormonism, what else is required?:

"The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose...

"From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory.(See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next."

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp...

Baptism and repentance is only the first step, a step that isn't enough to get you there. Temple endowments, and temple marriages are also required, along with enduring to the end, of course.

One of your Prophets said that isn't enough, you needed perfection:

"Trying is not sufficient. Nor is repentance complete when one merely tries to abandon sin," Kimball writes.[2] The objective of repentance, he writes, is to obtain "perfection" as a prerequisite for achieving "immortality and eternal life.... This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us.... Being perfect means to triumph over sin." (Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 208-209.)

That is salvation based upon your works, not the grace of Jesus Christ. I notice that the grace of Jesus Christ is not mentioned even one time in the Articles of Faith, but works are.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#22677
Mar 24, 2013
 
I would like to point out that Mormonism salvation based on works system is so ingrained that even the grace of Jesus Christ isn't given to the dead. Members have to go to the temple to do their works before they have a hope of salvation. Where is the grace of Jesus in that?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#22678
Mar 24, 2013
 
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, the person who she is referring to is a guy. He posts under Google, or scripture verses sometimes. He and Dana have had it out... that is when Dana has said
He would, Crucify Jesus Christ himself
and
He would, kill Joseph Smith and other Prophets
and
He called God a pig, a retard, and he starts using foul language that isn't Christ like.
I'm under the impression that Google does this to bring out Dana's true colors. Idk for sure though.
Yet you repost her comments word for word. Nice try Carol.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#22679
Mar 24, 2013
 
Muslim finds comfort at BYU? Birds of a feather....

http://www.ksl.com/...

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

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#22680
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you repost her comments word for word. Nice try Carol.
The truth is the truth... if you change it then its LYING... and YOU are the LIAR not me.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

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#22681
Mar 24, 2013
 
I am not like you and change the posts of other posters and then respond to them... that's your venue, not mine.

I posted her quote just as she said them.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

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#22682
Mar 24, 2013
 
and I posted your words, your quotes just as you said them.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

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#22683
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you repost her comments word for word. Nice try Carol.
You are so stupid... why would I repost her comments anything other.

LAME.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#22684
Mar 24, 2013
 
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
You are so stupid... why would I repost her comments anything other.
LAME.
Which lie is the truth, Carol? "I posted her quote just as she said them." LOL!!!!!!!!!!

“Good day to you!”

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#22686
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I suspect you are playing the fool again. Being willfully ignorant to try and save Mormonism:
lol...and you're the fool for not reading our posts! He was speaking of people living today who claimed to have said that, that Mormons were to move to Utah. I said he was being gulible because he didn't ask questions for proof.
Next, I know what Smith said, it was their goal to be in Missouri and build a city. But I said and I'll enlarge the print so you might PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M SAYING, MODERN DAY LEADERS HAVE BEEN SAYING TO REMAIN WHERE ONE LIVES, NOT TO FLOCK TO UTAH UNLESS THEY'RE ACTUALLY MOVING FOR UN-CHURCH RELATED REASONS.
GET IT NOW?

“Good day to you!”

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#22687
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
It's the myth that still isn't a myth to believing members.
Speaking of what you deem myths, I thought you'd love to hate to read this link. Just some extra proof the eternal marriage belief has been around longer than you or I can even imagine. You're welcome :)

http://behindthewall.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/0...

"Ghost marriage between two dead people is stable and lasts forever," said Zhao Ming, one of Wei Guohua's grandsons. "There is no such thing as divorce."

“Good day to you!”

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#22688
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Time to take you back to Mormonism 101. Let's start with the Articles of Faith:
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind MAY be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Not by the grace of Jesus Christ, but by "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
Starting with:
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by eimmersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
But that is only the beginning, that alone will not get you to the greatest degree of glory, and everybody wants the best God has to offer, yes? But according to Mormonism, what else is required?:
"The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose...
"From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory.(See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next."

Baptism and repentance is only the first step, a step that isn't enough to get you there. Temple endowments, and temple marriages are also required, along with enduring to the end, of course.
One of your Prophets said that isn't enough, you needed perfection:
"Trying is not sufficient. Nor is repentance complete when one merely tries to abandon sin," Kimball writes.[2] The objective of repentance, he writes, is to obtain "perfection" as a prerequisite for achieving "immortality and eternal life.... This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us.... Being perfect means to triumph over sin." (Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 208-209.)
That is salvation based upon your works, not the grace of Jesus Christ. I notice that the grace of Jesus Christ is not mentioned even one time in the Articles of Faith, but works are.
I know you missed this but part of the laws and ordinances is faith. And as Kimball stressed which of course you obviously missed, to repent one needs faith. To have faith one needs to understand how faith works and that faith doesn't work by itself.
But of course you would obviously believe that Mormons don't believe in faith and they don't teach faith and in your ignorant estimation, they probably even teach against faith.
I'm sure as you grew up around your dad, him being an active member and bishop, as you decided to buck the system and fight not to be part of that church, I'm sure you'll claim your dad was a faithless, godless man and destined for hell even now because he preached against faith and taught faith wasn't needed for salvation. That is your opinion correct? You just got done trying to show Mormons like your dad a bishopo, teach nothing and speak nothing of faith. That your dad was actually anti-faith and probably taught you never ever to have faith in Jesus because you didn't need faith to have salvation. Those are the irrational points your trying to prove correct?

“Good day to you!”

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#22689
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
I would like to point out that Mormonism salvation based on works system is so ingrained that even the grace of Jesus Christ isn't given to the dead. Members have to go to the temple to do their works before they have a hope of salvation. Where is the grace of Jesus in that?
That is your opinion. That isn't actual fact. You don't have a clue what the grace of Christ is or what it is for and why we have it.
Next, missionaries prove your a liar once more.
If Mormon salvation is based on works, why don't Mormon missionaries have converts out doing good deeds every day? When they come to teach a convert young old or crippled, how come they aren't dragging the convert out the door to go do good deeds instead of teaching them the BOM and praying with them and reading the scriptures with them and asking them to strengthen their faith in Jesus to ask if Smith was a prophet and if the LDS church is God's church on earth again? Hmmm???
That is your claim..."Mormonism salvation based on works system.."
Please explain to us all why Mormon missionaries are doing faith related things for weeks to months by prayer and reading and discussions with a single convert instead of teaching them about works by dragging them out the door to do good deeds?
There's a contradiction happening here. Either you're a liar or your confused as usual or Mormons actually do teach faith and grace and works as a single thing to salvation.

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#22690
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
Muslim finds comfort at BYU? Birds of a feather....
http://www.ksl.com/...
lolol...you're discrimination and bigotry of religions knows no ends...please keep making such prejudiced bigoted remarks to prove just how deeply your discrimination runs through your soul. You prove again you have committed a murderous deed, when's the hanging?

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#22691
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
It's only insane if your morals are ambivalent, which you have shown that yours are.
Discrimination is as wrong as murder or rape, I don't care how you want to justify it.
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Than which do you want for a prison sentence? Death by lethal injection or a life sentence? You discriminate against Mormons and their right to freedom of religious belief EVERY SINGLE DAY YOUR IN HERE. So what now oh master of hypocrisy? You're one of the worst discriminators of discrimination happening as is nomo.
Since you have branded your and her's discrimination acts with murder, why don't you two subject yourselves to a Utah firing squad? Maybe you two should meet and hang yourselves by the neck from tree limbs somewhere since you brand your practice of discrimination as such heinous acts? Hmmm? And remember in your reply you did state..."Discrimination is as wrong as murder or rape, I don't care how you want to justify it." Since you won't be able to punish others, you should set the example and hang yourself first for your murderous offense.

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#22692
Mar 24, 2013
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
2. Smith said he received D. & C. 45:62-71 on March 7, 1831. It says to “gather up your riches that ye may purchase an inheritance which shall hereafter be appointed unto you. And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God… and the wicked shall not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion…The righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion.” In D. & C. 57:1-5 Smith said the Lord consecrated Independence, Missouri as the place for the gathering and as an everlasting inheritance. And D. & C. 133:4-7 commands “Gather ye together, O ye people of my (LDS) church, upon the land of Zion… the time has come when the voice of the Lord is unto you…gather ye out from among the nations.”
Result: LDS in 1831 were told to buy land around Independence, MO, and gather there. But they were driven out, so it was not a place of peace, safety and refuge for them. LDS from all nations never occupied “Zion” nor is it an everlasting inheritance for LDS today.
3. Smith said he received D. & C. 84:1-5 on September 22-23, 1832 in which the Lord said that Zion or New Jerusalem “shall be built, beginning at the temple lot…in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri…by the gathering of the saints beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord.” D. & C. 97:19-20 also says “Zion (in Independence, MO) is the city of our God and surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place, for God is there, and the hand of the Lord is there and he hath sworn by the power of his might to be her salvation and her high tower.”
Result: The second LDS Prophet, Brigham Young said that a generation only lasts from 27 to 29 years (Journal of Discourses vol. 12, p.118). The generation alive in 1832 all died long ago, yet nothing in D. & C. 84:1-5 was fulfilled. Conflicts with the people in Independence, MO, led LDS leaders to enter a treaty to leave two weeks before D. & C. 97: 19-20 was given by Smith (History of the Church vol. I, p. 394). He didn’t know that because he was in Kirtland, OH when he gave that prophecy, but the Lord surely should have known it! Since these prophecies weren’t fulfilled like D. & C. 1:37 said they would be, they didn’t come from God and Smith was a false prophet.
http://www.utahchristianpub.org/articles/lds-...
The belief that the Saints would still be gathering at Missouri remind popular among the members. So popular the leaders had to refute it:
Myth #2: The entire Church will be gathered to Missouri. Here recent prophets have been quite specific.(Ensign, Nov. 1978, p. 76.)
More to come...
1. The term Zion is dualistic in nature. It is both a place and status. In D&C 97:21 it is defined as "the pure in heart." The many moves the early church made acted as a cleansing process. Those who could not endure or follow stayed behind. In the sense that all the saints would be gathered in Zion, saints from various reaches of the earth did come to Missouri and later Salt Lake. The Salt Lake valley was in a sense, Zion, or where the pure in heart dwelled. Salt Lake was a refuge from religious persecution and the civil war that followed.

2. The growth of the church had different phases. Initially it was important for all the saints to group together. There is strength in numbers and members can help strengthen each other's faith. Christ said in Luke 22:32 that we should strengthen each other when we are converted. That is exactly what the early saints did by gathering together. Later, there were enough saints to start establishing congregations in different locations that were self sustaining.

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