Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 197471 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#53271 Oct 17, 2012
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>Using your definition of science, observations and experiments, tell me whether abiogenesis is based on evidence or faith that it occurred.
Based upon the definition of ABIOGENISIS: "Life from non-life (God-inspired or otherwise)", there is AMPLE proof for abiogenisis.

You twit.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#53272 Oct 17, 2012
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Using your definition of science, observations and experiments, tell me whether abiogenesis is based on evidence or faith that it occurred.

Abiogenesis is based on basic logic.

Premise 1: There was once no life on earth (agreed to by all)
Premise 2: There is now life on earth.(agreed to by all).
Premise 3: Life did not come to earth from outside (agreed to by most).
Conclusion: Life must have originated on earth (abiogenesis).

As is true with any logical conclusion the conclusion is only as good as the premises.

So, we know abiogenesis occurred. The question then becomes HOW it occurred. The leading candidates are natural origin or divine origin. As science has not yet discovered anything that cannot be attributed to natural causes the natural origin is the leading candidate for science.

So, in conclusion abiogenesis is known to have occurred and the remaining question is how it occurred.

My personal belief is that god created a universe that is capable of "life-ing" (to use Alan Watt's term) and of evolution. I see no reason to interpose an activist god that pulls all the strings at every moment. The universe itself has the capacities to do all things we see in the natural world. The laws of nature are established and were established at the beginning.

But that is just my personal belief.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#53273 Oct 17, 2012
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>That random scatter of commas doesn't help.

Nope, not at all.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#53275 Oct 17, 2012
Doctor Who Two wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting.
I do believe God created an adult male and female human.
What do you make of these?
http://xfacts.com/xnews/index.html
"The Sumerian culture, the first civilization to invent writing as a complete written language, recorded stories that have been preserved through the modern day biblical passages found in the Old and New testament. All of which speak of a time when man lived among their living gods here on earth. The Sumerians had 7 sacred tablets that explained our creation. These stories preserved in stone, are now told to us in the form of the english version, "7 days of creation".
They also had a story of a great flood, and how one of the Gods choose to give a certain Sumerian man knowledge on how to build a boat that could withstand the great flood. All the stories in the bible are just translated versions of the original Sumerian Texts that we still have today preserved in stone, unchanged.
The Sumerians tell us that their Gods, taught them all the amazing knowledge that the Sumerian Culture possessed, 6,000 years ago. They called their Gods, "anunnaki" which is translated to mean "those who from heaven to earth came".."
Means to most people that most people regard Genesis as having its origins in Sumerian myths.

Is that it?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#53276 Oct 17, 2012
...er...delete the first "to most people".

<damn>

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#53278 Oct 17, 2012
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Means to most people that most people regard Genesis as having its origins in Sumerian myths.
Is that it?
Sorry, I have to do this:

Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World

DECEMBER 15, 2009 | ISSUE 45•51 | MORE NEWS

Lord God, Creator of All, caught thousands of Sumerian farmers and mathematicians somewhat off guard.

Members of the earth's earliest known civilization, the Sumerians, looked on in shock and confusion some 6,000 years ago as God, the Lord Almighty, created Heaven and Earth.

According to recently excavated clay tablets inscribed with cuneiform script, thousands of Sumerians—the first humans to establish systems of writing, agriculture, and government—were working on their sophisticated irrigation systems when the Father of All Creation reached down from the ether and blew the divine spirit of life into their thriving civilization.

"I do not understand," reads an ancient line of pictographs depicting the sun, the moon, water, and a Sumerian who appears to be scratching his head. "A booming voice is saying,'Let there be light,' but there is already light. It is saying,'Let the earth bring forth grass,' but I am already standing on grass."

"Everything is here already," the pictograph continues. "We do not need more stars."

Historians believe that, immediately following the biblical event, Sumerian witnesses returned to the city of Eridu, a bustling metropolis built 1,500 years before God called for the appearance of dry land, to discuss the new development. According to records, Sumerian farmers, priests, and civic administrators were not only befuddled, but also took issue with the face of God moving across the water, saying that He scared away those who were traveling to Mesopotamia to participate in their vast and intricate trade system.

Moreover, the Sumerians were taken aback by the creation of the same animals and herb-yielding seeds that they had been domesticating and cultivating for hundreds of generations.

"The Sumerian people must have found God's making of heaven and earth in the middle of their well-established society to be more of an annoyance than anything else," said Paul Helund, ancient history professor at Cornell University. "If what the pictographs indicate are true, His loud voice interrupted their ancient prayer rituals for an entire week."

According to the cuneiform tablets, Sumerians found God's most puzzling act to be the creation from dust of the first two human beings.

"These two people made in his image do not know how to communicate, lack skills in both mathematics and farming, and have the intellectual capacity of an infant," one Sumerian philosopher wrote. "They must be the creation of a complete idiot." - The Onion

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#53280 Oct 17, 2012
Doctor Who Two wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting.
I do believe God created an adult male and female human.
What do you make of these?
http://xfacts.com/xnews/index.html
"The Sumerian culture, the first civilization to invent writing as a complete written language, recorded stories that have been preserved through the modern day biblical passages found in the Old and New testament. All of which speak of a time when man lived among their living gods here on earth. The Sumerians had 7 sacred tablets that explained our creation. These stories preserved in stone, are now told to us in the form of the english version, "7 days of creation".
They also had a story of a great flood, and how one of the Gods choose to give a certain Sumerian man knowledge on how to build a boat that could withstand the great flood. All the stories in the bible are just translated versions of the original Sumerian Texts that we still have today preserved in stone, unchanged.
The Sumerians tell us that their Gods, taught them all the amazing knowledge that the Sumerian Culture possessed, 6,000 years ago. They called their Gods, "anunnaki" which is translated to mean "those who from heaven to earth came".."
Berosus wrote the stories that were lost , that explains the mystery of our beliefs. It's a shame they were burned in Alexandria.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#53281 Oct 17, 2012
Doctor Who Two wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it interesting that the people who invented the first written language finds it important enough to write in stone these biblical books.
They were not writing a bed time story book. Big stone tablets don't work well for story time. These were important books to these people.
Those "Big stone tablets" may have been (and are) impressive to produce, and look at (especially in modern days), but they are NOT science, nor history, nor fact. Nor are they nearly as impressive as the culmination of the body of science as we know it today versus superstition.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53283 Oct 17, 2012
No. Chemistry and physics discover new information about the real world, because they use the scientific method.
Mathematics does not, because it doesn't.
Charles Idemi wrote:
That is how far your knowledge can take you to.
To the accurate categorization of science vs. mathematics.
Charles Idemi wrote:
Before one could be a medical professional or an engineer, he or she must have an "O" level requirement of Maths and English, why?
Because most professions *use* mathematics and English. That *still* doesn't make mathematics a science.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53284 Oct 17, 2012
No. With physics and chemistry, you are learning facts and theories about the real world. You may be learning some terminology, but that terminology is in an existing language (such as English or French or German).
With mathematics, you are not learning facts and theories about the real world. You are learning symbols and the grammar rules to manipulate them. Just as with learning any other language.
Charles Idemi wrote:
You are not getting the fact. All courses are man made.
Nobody here said otherwise, so what's your point?
Charles Idemi wrote:
Though all the things we are studying are already there, whether visible or invisible. Physics and Chemistry needs Mathematics to carry out its physical scientific operations effectively, like chemistry. Maths is important to majority of the world languages.
Which *still* doesn't make mathematics a science. Mathematics is a type of language. It has symbols and a set of rules to manipulate the symbols in a meaningful way.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53285 Oct 17, 2012
No. Chemistry and physics discover new information about the real world, because they use the scientific method.
Mathematics does not, because it doesn't.
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> No!
If there is no single Mathematics in Chemistry and in Physics. They are like a "storm in the tea cup".
If there is no differentiation, calculus, integration, permutation, combinations and many Mathematical science in physics. Physics, would have been a semi science.
Which *still* doesn't make mathematics a science.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53286 Oct 17, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> No.
Mathematics, just like every other subjects, except the languages( English, German, French etc), are taught world wide. The languages are only taught in the universities and some special schools.
Which schools teach which things does not change the fact that (1) mathematics is a type of language and (2) mathematics is not a type of science.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53287 Oct 17, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
This is also applicable to physics, chemistry. You must learn it, before you can become perfect in it. So, it is a type of language.
Physics and chemistry are not types of languages. They are types of science.

Languages are not the only things that people learn. They also learn things that are not languages.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53288 Oct 17, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
My country and some other countries, see Maths as science
What is "your country"? Does it have a name?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53289 Oct 17, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
But you never said that philosophy is taken as a "core" subject in other countries.
Why would I need to say whether or not philosophy was a core subject in some countries? I was responding to *your* claim that philosophy was required in all degrees, and in your claim, you did not limit yourself to any particular country.(So because you did not limit your claim in any way, I responded correctly that you were wrong.)

Admit your error.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53290 Oct 17, 2012
Where in what I wrote above did I say that "Mathematics and English are not important"? Please point to that in my words.
Charles Idemi wrote:
Your comments is pointing to that direction. You are insulting Mathematics and other languages, in favour of Physics and Chemistry
How does it insult mathematics to point out that mathematics is not a type of science?

Do you think that science is the only thing worth knowing?

It seems like *you* are the one engaging in insults toward non-science. Why are you doing that?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53291 Oct 17, 2012
No, those are not forms of mathematics. If I give you some wheat and in exchange you give me some fish, we didn't use mathematics to accomplish that.
Charles Idemi wrote:
Not in this generation any more. All nations are now using currencies or coins, whether local or international.
Apparently you need to learn about those parts of the world where there are people who don't have number words. Perhaps you can explain how a culture that doesn't have number words would use currencies or coins?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#53292 Oct 17, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Our hero finds himself exhausted on the floor of the temple. Suddenly, yet another tomb bat, the dreaded scholastic quote bat, is coming at him to punish him with arcane words of old English.
He thinks to himself, "I think I AM!" Sadly, the bat is Italian and cannot conjugate without clear masculine and feminine verb action. He switched over to American and gives the bat a fatal concussion with his pistol butt, never realizing the poor choreography!
He left the tomb and began his journey back to civilization.
Quite entertaining?
A word to all, truth is bitter.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53294 Oct 17, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
Math is a science and a language.
Mathematics is a language, but it is not a science. It does not use the scientific method.

If mathematics were a science, we would not have universities or colleges with academic units known as "science and mathematics". They would just be "science".

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#53295 Oct 17, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
But your pals never agreed that, Mathematics is a science.
Because it isn't.

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