Hobby Lobby: Go Ahead and Fine Us, We Won't Comply With 'Morning-After' Mandate

An attorney for Hobby Lobby Stores said Thursday that the arts and crafts chain plans to defy a federal mandate requiring it to offer employees health coverage that includes access to the morning-after pill, despite risking potential fines of up to $1.3 million per day. Full Story

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#509 Jan 8, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>There is a lot here so piece by piece.

First, if you are going to quote scripture, quote the whole thing.
My bible says resists not rebel.
Second, It says in Romans 13 render to all men what is their due, tribute to whom tribute is due, taxes to whom taxes are due, fear to whom fear is due honor to whom honor is due.

Basically living as Jews in a pagan country means following their rules without resistance or you are going to find yourself at the end of the sword.

In Daniel chapter 3, Daniel’s three friends were commanded to bow down before an image of gold. They refused, and rightly so, for they could not serve God and bow down to an idol. But the way in which they declined to do so demonstrated a submissive spirit. They did not refuse to obey all of the king’s commands, only this one. They knew that disobedience might cost them their lives, and they were willing to pay this price. They did not advocate the overthrow of this government, and they were willing to submit to the death penalty if necessary. The same is seen in Daniel chapter 6, where Daniel will not cease praying to his God. Daniel refuses to comply with a specific law, and even the king agrees with him and hopes for his rescue.

God also says not to follow rules that are knowing wrong even at the risk of your life.
You must be reading from a different version.

Here is the link: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

“ABORTION KILLS A HUMAN BEING”

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#510 Jan 8, 2013
Good for Hobby Lobby! Stand strong for what you believe in. Never waiver!

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#511 Jan 8, 2013
Didn't realize the link didn't copy completely Inkstain.

Try this one: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
finnerty

Newark, OH

#512 Jan 8, 2013
the rest of us wrote:
<quoted text>
No arrogant Professor Fartsack, we want YOU to STFU! What a worthless gasbag you are, unbelievable. Go look at your own sh*t for once you hypocrite.
you and yer homo boyfriend want me, no thanks, not queer lik you

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#513 Jan 8, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like a perfect solution. Make BC OTC.
I knew you'd like that one. Trust you to be all for twelve year olds waltzing into drug stores and waltzing out with bc injections and one-size-fits-all diaphragms...

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#514 Jan 8, 2013
HuskerDu wrote:
<quoted text>This Country was founded on certain rights, one was religious freedom and to worship without being harassed, deal with it.
"Religious freedom" does not include the freedom to impose one's religion on others. You have the freedom to reject abortion. You have the freedom to reject 'artificial' or any other method of birth control. You DO NOT have the freedom to restrict others from access to either, simply as a function of your 'religious beliefs'.

Losing the legal ability to persecute and harass others, does not constitute harassment of YOU.

Sorry about your luck,
but not very.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#515 Jan 9, 2013
HuskerDu wrote:
<quoted text>We will not pay for something we consider evil, got it? Its not discrimination or anything like that, we are standing up for what we believe, deal with it, its our constitutional right, its called freedom of religion ,we have the right to practice our faith. This isn't China, yet.
Discriminate all you like (and you do) within the confines of your own church. When you wander out from there and into the world of commerce you follow the fricking laws......got it??/

Keep your theocracy out of our democracy.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#516 Jan 9, 2013
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Medically required or socially required?
Wow you are amazingly stupid on this subject!!

An exam is REQUIRED to receive a prescription for BC, just as with all other prescription meds!

This includes to renew the prescription.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#517 Jan 9, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow you are amazingly stupid on this subject!!
An exam is REQUIRED to receive a prescription for BC, just as with all other prescription meds!
This includes to renew the prescription.
She stupidly thought you were saying the PRESCRIPTION is "required". Though, when I pointed out, twice, that it is a treatment for a valid medical condition, menorrhagia, she ignored that entirely.
ontg

Carol Stream, IL

#518 Jan 9, 2013
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course; let's go from sexual and religious discrimination to racial, ethnic and affluence profiling!
You do realize that birth control IS legal in this country; right?
Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479 (1965). Here, go educate yourself:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/histori...
Yes I do but does Griswold say I have to pay for yours?

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#519 Jan 9, 2013
ontg wrote:
<quoted text>Yes I do but does Griswold say I have to pay for yours?
No, and neither does the ACA. It says you have to OFFER ACCESS to insurance which covers it. WE PAY OUR OWN PREMIUMS on our insurance. Employers don't.

No one is asking you to pay for anyone's birth control but your own.
No one is even saying you have to USE birth control, much less pay for it.

What kind of stupid ARE you people??

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#520 Jan 9, 2013
ontg wrote:
<quoted text>Yes I do but does Griswold say I have to pay for yours?
Employees pay their premiums.

Perhaps YOU would like to comment on why a company that buys items from China to sell in their stores, which supports that country, a country that FORCES abortions on women, is whining about allowing coverage for a medication that does not even cause abortions?
DrKilljoy

Russellville, KY

#521 Jan 9, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Employees pay their premiums.
Perhaps YOU would like to comment on why a company that buys items from China to sell in their stores, which supports that country, a country that FORCES abortions on women, is whining about allowing coverage for a medication that does not even cause abortions?
WOW!!!!! Excellent point I never thought of. What about employer's that are in a religion that does not believe in blood transfusions. What about the ones that do not believe in transplants. How about the ones that do not believe in ANY medical treatment. Are they going to set the rules for insurance companies?

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#522 Jan 9, 2013
ontg wrote:
<quoted text>Yes I do but does Griswold say I have to pay for yours?
No. Then again, no one is asking you to pay for mine. I had a vasectomy 9 years ago and my medical insurance covered it 100%.
HuskerDu

Muscotah, KS

#523 Jan 9, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Discriminate all you like (and you do) within the confines of your own church. When you wander out from there and into the world of commerce you follow the fricking laws......got it??/
Keep your theocracy out of our democracy.
Ahhh, you should have it the other way . Funny how you are for seperation of church and state wheen the govt is sticking its nose and persecuting Christians for what we believe.

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#524 Jan 9, 2013
Hobby Lobby is failing to realize two very important things:

1- No constitutional right is absolute; and

2- Civil disobedience is punishable by either fines, prison, or both.

Of course, I'm not going to mention that Hobby Lobby's lawyers are milking this issue for $$ and to make a name for themselves.. Oh shit; I did say it!! LMAO!!

With regard to 1; no constitutional right is absolute.

Everyone knows, or should know that just because you have a right to free speech, you can't go into a movie theatre and yell "FIRE" just to f*ck around; if you work for a private employer, you don't have a right to free speech, or to privacy while at work. We all have a constitutional right to bear arms, but I'm not going to keep a fully loaded F16 in my back yard, just because I flew one in Desert Storm and know its flight and weapons systems like the back of my hand, nor am I going to walk around with an M-16 on my shoulder, because I was weapons qualified when I served in the USAF.

The free expression of religion is protected insofar as the beliefs of the individual, or in this case the corporation. However, it also does not apply everywhere you are. Muslims can't expect to, on a daily basis and at a given time, stop what they're doing, lay out a mat on the floor of their office and face east to pray (especially if they work for a Jew); Catholics can't expect to have a statue of the virgin mary on their desks, or a figure of jesus on the cross on their wall, especially if they work for a protestant, or an agnostic, or for anyone else who isn't catholic.

That door also swings the other direction. If I was an orthodox Jew, I could not demand of my firm to have more than one refrigerator on each of the three kitchens of my office, because meat and dairy cannot be in the same fridge, given Jewish laws and doing so would be against my beliefs as an orthodox Jew. By the same token, Hobby Lobby can't argue freedom of religion, when all they're trying to do is not comply with something in which they don't believe, or believe it's a sin. HL cannot use free practice of religion as both a sword and a shield, just because the free practice of religion also applies to the practice of no religion. Further, you don't practice religion at work, or on a street corner, or on a public park, especially without a permit, to name a few; that's why there are places of worship, and your home.

With regard to 2, it's not pleasant for everyone to hear this, and not everyone can understand it. But, it is what it is. This is a legal issue and until the court rules on it in Hobby Lobby's favor, the likes of which are exponentially low, Hobby Lobby is under mandate to comply with Obamacare, as upheld by SCOTUS. Not doing so will result in fines that can very easily cripple the company. Further, intentional civil disobedience, can, and may very well, result in incarceration, or forceful closing of the business. You just don't defy the law, knowingly, and get away with it.

Disagreement with a court order is not an excuse to violate that order. That's the very reason why something called contempt, civil or criminal, exists. A convicted sex offender cannot arbitrarily fail to disclose his address, just because he thinks he's entitled to privacy.

Bottom line, the overall greater good of society trumps any and all individual rights anyone thinks they have.

Of course, for the sake of brevity, I'm stating this in layman's terms. If writing a brief for the Supreme Court, it would be way more exhaustive, albeit the very core of the argument would be what I stated above.

Cheers.
Canon

Texarkana, TX

#525 Jan 9, 2013
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that garbage somehow supposed to make me change my mind, or incite me to feel empathy?
In my religion, Judaism, if an abortion is required, by Talmudic mandate, it is specified that the fetus is to be removed "limb by limb" if necessary.
I've seen enough death in my lifetime. I stared death in the eye in a combat sortie in Desert Storm when I almost for shot down my a SAM. Your little kid's "horror story" will not incite an emotional reaction from me. I was more hurt by the shooting at Sandy Hook elementary, than by your bullshit story.
Call me callous, or whatever else. It's of no meaning to me.
I'm not sure if I am more saddened for you or sickend by you.
Canon

Texarkana, TX

#526 Jan 9, 2013
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
I was more hurt by the shooting at Sandy Hook elementary, than by your bullshit story.
Call me callous, or whatever else. It's of no meaning to me.
Well then, I suppose it's too bad they weren't aborted in their mothers womb FIRST.

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#527 Jan 9, 2013
DrKilljoy wrote:
<quoted text>WOW!!!!! Excellent point I never thought of. What about employer's that are in a religion that does not believe in blood transfusions. What about the ones that do not believe in transplants. How about the ones that do not believe in ANY medical treatment. Are they going to set the rules for insurance companies?
Talk about lame!

Employers are not charged with regulating insurance companies. Insurance companies engage in interstate trade and the Federal Government, especially the U.S. Congress, is charged with regulating such companies. See Article I of the United States Constitution.

And the government, in its exercise of its scope of authority, backed by the holding of SCOTUS, has set a law that if disobeyed, penalties will attach.

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#528 Jan 9, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>No, and neither does the ACA. It says you have to OFFER ACCESS to insurance which covers it. WE PAY OUR OWN PREMIUMS on our insurance. Employers don't.
No one is asking you to pay for anyone's birth control but your own.
No one is even saying you have to USE birth control, much less pay for it.
What kind of stupid ARE you people??
Well said SH.

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