The MPG Myth

As gas and oil prices skyrocket, despite the fact that I see very little change in the San Francisco Bay Area in terms of the types of cars driven or the way people drive - more on that later - people are moving away from gas-guzzlers to more fuel efficient cars, out of necessity.

Still, the math ... or rather the myth ... of MPG may be making them making incorrect choices in terms of cars.

[RayOne]

Congress is still working on the Valerie story, c-span is becoming Larry King Live.

[Pittsburgh Steve]

And you have to factor in the difference in prices between the various models, depreciation, etc to get the true break even point. But in the end the Economics of higher fuel prices will force us to change.

[Lance Winslow]

Pittsburgh Steve wrote:

And you have to factor in the difference in prices between the various models, depreciation, etc to get the true break even point. But in the end the Economics of higher fuel prices will force us to change.

The biggest changes ahead are for technologies which increase the efficiency of deriving useable energy from fuel. The potential is huge. Unfortunately, advancing these technologies got off on the wrong foot by emphasizing that increasing efficiency concommitantly reduces CO2 emission.

[RayOne]

How about Congress is holding the public for ransom until they get their way.
Maybe they want better food in the cafeteria?

[bryts]

This shows how bad "science" has gotten these days.

They compare 38-28 and say it's not as good as 20-15.

That's ONLY when calculating "differences". And it's all about percentages. You could say 65-50 is even worse. But if they were to use actual scientific method (which uses controls), they would compare 38-15 as well as 20-15.

The article "implies" that the 20 mpg is better than the 38 mpg.

This is how people are pushing their stupid political agendas these days, by claiming that "science" proves something that it really doesn't.

[hetrevillion]

bryts wrote:

This shows how bad "science" has gotten these days.
They compare 38-28 and say it's not as good as 20-15.
That's ONLY when calculating "differences". And it's all about percentages. You could say 65-50 is even worse. But if they were to use actual scientific method (which uses controls), they would compare 38-15 as well as 20-15.
The article "implies" that the 20 mpg is better than the 38 mpg.
This is how people are pushing their stupid political agendas these days, by claiming that "science" proves something that it really doesn't.

The science in this case is simple math, and it does prove that the more money and fuel are saved by trading the one vehicle over the other. It's all about percentage and difference, as you say. Maybe you should re-read the article.

[bryts]

hetrevillion wrote:

<quoted text>
The science in this case is simple math, and it does prove that the more money and fuel are saved by trading the one vehicle over the other. It's all about percentage and difference, as you say. Maybe you should re-read the article.

Maybe you should re-read the article. You are correct in that trading a vehicle with better mpg saves fuel, but that is NOT the point of the article.

The article (as I stated) implies that it's better to have a 20 mpg car than a 38 mpg car. This is simply false.(as I'm sure you know).

[Jones]

Oil prices rebounded today because of the Israeli aircraft rehearsal of possible attack on Iranian nukes facilities. Evidently, The new York Times is celebrating the increase of oil prices through the roof as it serves the socialists in their push of increased dependence of the American ‘poor’ on the federal government.
In fact, the Middle East tension is escalating especially between the Iranian regime and the Jewish state Israel. While Ahmadinajad is calling day in and day out for the destruction of the Jews and converting the Jewish state to Islamic Shariya state by Hamas and Hezbollah Islamic terrorists attacks, Israel was rehearsing attack on Iranian nuke and dirty bomb plants that are enriching uranium and will be ready to use in nuclear warheads soon.
The direct result is that oil fields in the Middle East will be set on fire and the Strait of Hormuz will be closed to passage of ships carrying oil to US and the EU.
Nevertheless, the un-American liberal socialist Dems that rule the US Congress are adamant to prevent any US effort to use its own oil abundant resources that will be needed very soon to prevent the shutdown of US transportation and industry when the tension in the Middle East will escalate and destabilizing the entire Middle East.
In addition according to the anti-American New York Times, the left wing liberal socialist Dems in Congress are satisfied from the new burden on each American family of $500-$1200 a month or $6,000 to $14,400 annually due to the gasoline, food, and services cost increase that was driven from gasoline price increase of 100% during the liberals control of US Congress since 2006. According to the New York Times the socialist Marxist congressmen want the American people to be poor and use bicycle and busses while deserting their cars that may ruin planet earth within the next 100 years.
With the New York Times and the America hating socialist that hold the grip on the American people and prevent any oil drilling only to drive the American economy and the American people welfare off the cliff, who needs enemies…$

[Wake Up El Paso]

I saw a story on the news yesterday that showed a privately owned Hummer window deep in flood water in Iowa being driven around helping to distribute sandbags. Please try that in your Prius.

[Jones]

Wake Up El Paso wrote:

I saw a story on the news yesterday that showed a privately owned Hummer window deep in flood water in Iowa being driven around helping to distribute sandbags. Please try that in your Prius.

Well said. Oil prices rebounded today because of the Israeli aircraft rehearsal of possible attack on Iranian nukes facilities. Evidently, The new York Times is celebrating the increase of oil prices through the roof as it serves the socialists in their push of increased dependence of the American ‘poor’ on the federal government.
In fact, the Middle East tension is escalating especially between the Iranian regime and the Jewish state Israel. While Ahmadinajad is calling day in and day out for the destruction of the Jews and converting the Jewish state to Islamic Shariya state by Hamas and Hezbollah Islamic terrorists attacks, Israel was rehearsing attack on Iranian nuke and dirty bomb plants that are enriching uranium and will be ready to use in nuclear warheads soon.
The direct result is that oil fields in the Middle East will be set on fire and the Strait of Hormuz will be closed to passage of ships carrying oil to US and the EU.
Nevertheless, the un-American liberal socialist Dems that rule the US Congress are adamant to prevent any US effort to use its own oil abundant resources that will be needed very soon to prevent the shutdown of US transportation and industry when the tension in the Middle East will escalate and destabilizing the entire Middle East.
In addition according to the anti-American New York Times, the left wing liberal socialist Dems in Congress are satisfied from the new burden on each American family of $500-$1200 a month or $6,000 to $14,400 annually due to the gasoline, food, and services cost increase that was driven from gasoline price increase of 100% during the liberals control of US Congress since 2006. According to the New York Times the socialist Marxist congressmen want the American people to be poor and use bicycle and busses while deserting their cars that may ruin planet earth within the next 100 years.
With the New York Times and the America hating socialist that hold the grip on the American people and prevent any oil drilling only to drive the American economy and the American people welfare off the cliff, who needs enemies…$

[SIR LANCELOT]

Big Ford F250 for me with a triton v-10,did i ever tell you how many particulates this 5 mpg Peterbilt throws into the air everyday?

[SIR LANCELOT]

Wake Up El Paso wrote:

I saw a story on the news yesterday that showed a privately owned Hummer window deep in flood water in Iowa being driven around helping to distribute sandbags. Please try that in your Prius.

Have you ever tried scraping a Prius out from under a Peterbilts fenders? It's a bitch!

[brejamin]

"You know what this liberal is all about. This liberal is all aobut socializin......... err I mean......... The uhh government.......... uhhhh taking over your company."
Maxine Waters
Let the truth RING BABY LET IT RING!!!!!!!!!!

[Mercaptan Detector]

bryts wrote:

This shows how bad "science" has gotten these days.
They compare 38-28 and say it's not as good as 20-15.
That's ONLY when calculating "differences". And it's all about percentages. You could say 65-50 is even worse. But if they were to use actual scientific method (which uses controls), they would compare 38-15 as well as 20-15.
The article "implies" that the 20 mpg is better than the 38 mpg.
This is how people are pushing their stupid political agendas these days, by claiming that "science" proves something that it really doesn't.

I read the story before I saw bryts post. I came to the same conclusion as bryts did.

Does anyone remember the Toronado from the 60s? It got 6mpg, the worst of any US car. If you had one of those and upgraded to a 10mpg car this story claims it would be better that squeezing more efficiency out of a 30mpg car.

So, I'm going to have Al Gore back me for a Nobel Prize. It shouldn't be too difficult to build a car that gets 1mpg. All I have to do is upgrade to 3mpg and I will be the energy saviour of the world. Who says you have to be educated to be brilliant?

[reality bites]

Jones wrote:

<quoted text>Well said. Oil prices rebounded today because of the Israeli aircraft rehearsal of possible attack on Iranian nukes facilities. Evidently, The new York Times is celebrating the increase of oil prices through the roof as it serves the socialists in their push of increased dependence of the American ‘poor’ on the federal government.
In fact, the Middle East tension is escalating especially between the Iranian regime and the Jewish state Israel. While Ahmadinajad is calling day in and day out for the destruction of the Jews and converting the Jewish state to Islamic Shariya state by Hamas and Hezbollah Islamic terrorists attacks, Israel was rehearsing attack on Iranian nuke and dirty bomb plants that are enriching uranium and will be ready to use in nuclear warheads soon.
The direct result is that oil fields in the Middle East will be set on fire and the Strait of Hormuz will be closed to passage of ships carrying oil to US and the EU.
Nevertheless, the un-American liberal socialist Dems that rule the US Congress are adamant to prevent any US effort to use its own oil abundant resources that will be needed very soon to prevent the shutdown of US transportation and industry when the tension in the Middle East will escalate and destabilizing the entire Middle East.
In addition according to the anti-American New York Times, the left wing liberal socialist Dems in Congress are satisfied from the new burden on each American family of $500-$1200 a month or $6,000 to $14,400 annually due to the gasoline, food, and services cost increase that was driven from gasoline price increase of 100% during the liberals control of US Congress since 2006. According to the New York Times the socialist Marxist congressmen want the American people to be poor and use bicycle and busses while deserting their cars that may ruin planet earth within the next 100 years.
With the New York Times and the America hating socialist that hold the grip on the American people and prevent any oil drilling only to drive the American economy and the American people welfare off the cliff, who needs enemies…$

Wow; again!! Here we go with the celebration of the extreme POWER of the Democratic Party who can add just a few members of Congress and in less than 2 years cause the total disruption of what was a booming economy under the Bush Administration. All of our ills today; from a crashed housing market, to soaring energy prices, to lost jobs, to a horrendous national debt are because of these SUPER DEMOCRATS.

Oh, and drilling for more oil here - where we might get a small addition to the supply in 8-10 years if we start now. Provided, of course, the increased frequency and strength of hurricanes in the Gulf don't slow things down or the deposits in Bakken prove to be even harder and more expensive to extract than already predicted.

So, drill and get rid of Democrats and all of our problems are solved and we won't have to even discuss another poorly thought-out article.

[workerbeedrone]

Wake Up El Paso wrote:

I saw a story on the news yesterday that showed a privately owned Hummer window deep in flood water in Iowa being driven around helping to distribute sandbags. Please try that in your Prius.

So we should all drive Hummers in case of 100 year floods? I think it would be more cost effective to build a big ark in our backyards, and wait around for a flood.

[goon]

wtf is this article talking about?

[Lance Winslow]

Mercaptan Detector wrote:

<quoted text>
I read the story before I saw bryts post. I came to the same conclusion as bryts did.
Does anyone remember the Toronado from the 60s? It got 6mpg, the worst of any US car. If you had one of those and upgraded to a 10mpg car this story claims it would be better that squeezing more efficiency out of a 30mpg car.
So, I'm going to have Al Gore back me for a Nobel Prize. It shouldn't be too difficult to build a car that gets 1mpg. All I have to do is upgrade to 3mpg and I will be the energy saviour of the world. Who says you have to be educated to be brilliant?

Being able to do elementry school level math might be your first step in the journey to be brilliant.

[Mercaptan Detector]

Lance Winslow wrote:

<quoted text>Being able to do elementry school level math might be your first step in the journey to be brilliant.

How right you are, Lance. However, it's not the math that was the problem with the article but the logical conclusions. That's the second step in the journey to brilliance.

[Money does not buy GOD]

and that is why I wonder about those who continue to financially rape the rest of the world. Food stamp and public assistance is up to record levels, unemployment record levels, air travel cuts jobs and slows air speed and cuts services, gas theft [my Jeep has been vandalized three times with people trying to steal gas].
Why can't people live in a modest home instead of a manson with 4 summer homes plus 25 cars in the garage?
Take all the mexicans off USA highways, illegals, and we'd have less consumption.
The bough, will one day break. I'm about ready to move onto my 130 acres of woodland, build a small one room cabin, and live off the land. F**K it!