Trayvon Martin case: use of Stand You...

Trayvon Martin case: use of Stand Your Ground law or pursuit of a black teen?

There are 129 comments on the www.csmonitor.com story from Mar 22, 2012, titled Trayvon Martin case: use of Stand Your Ground law or pursuit of a black teen?. In it, www.csmonitor.com reports that:

“He didn't stand his ground; he was hunting,” says Alan Lizotte, dean of the School of Criminal Justice at the University at Albany in New York

A grand jury in Florida and the US Justice Department will both probe the Feb. 26 shooting death of teenager Trayvon Martin.

It also turns out that Trayvon was on the phone with a 16-year-old girl just before the incident, according to the lawyer for Trayvon's family, Ben Crump. At a news conference Tuesday afternoon, Mr. Crump played a taped conversation with the girl, in which she recounted what her talk with Trayvon as he walked back to the house that day.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.csmonitor.com.

harvey

Columbus, OH

#42 Mar 22, 2012
Tired of Silly wrote:
<quoted text>
There is absolutely ZERO evidence that Zimmerman had his gun out. Even the girlfriend, who claims she could "hear" someone shoving someone else on a phone and even know who was shoving who didn't say that Martin said "OMG he has a gun" or anything of that nature. Again, you're just making up stuff to support crucifying this guy.
I'm a woman, so my reaction to being approached on the street at night by a stranger would likely be different than that of a 17 year old athlete. If I put myself in that athlete's place, when I first noticed someone apparently following me, and if I was afraid of that person, I would have hustled my tail to where I was staying, and safety. Surely a 17 year old athlete could out-run a 28 year old guy 100 lbs heavier than him? What I certainly would NOT have done is to try to hide, try to hide my face, and continue to meander along talking on the cell phone...at least not to a girlfriend. I MIGHT have called 911 if I was truly scared.
Oh, and please show me the law that says that it is illegal to approach someone on the street. I've apparently been breaking it all my life since I talk to people when they're walking in my neighborhood, or when I am. I guess we should all go to jail!
Idiotic. Because Martin didn't say "OMG he has a gun" doesn't mean he didn't have it out. He was walking, fast, AWAY from Zimmerman at the time, remember. Only at the last second did Zimmerman accost him. And he obviously had the gun out when he SHOT the kid.

The kid didn't run, ergo he's guilty? Is that your take? In fact he told his girlfriend he wasn't going to run, probably because a) he realized that'd makehim look more guilty, and b) because he was an athlete and had some pride - he didn't want to be seen as 'running away.'

Your defense of a murderer is outrageous, but I suppose expected if you're a white Floridian.
harvey

Columbus, OH

#43 Mar 22, 2012
Tired of Silly wrote:
<quoted text>
If they spent as much time on every black against white murder as they have on this, there would be nothing but news on any station. Whites are the victims of real crime by blacks every day. In the neighborhood where this happened they had a rash of break-ins and burglaries perpetrated by young black males. That's one of the reasons Martin was viewed as suspicious. An unknown young black male who didn't live there, wandering aimlessly in the rain and the dark, hiding his face when he realized he was being watched, and hiding completely for a period of time (according to the girlfriend's statements). Sounds suspicious as hell to me!
Sounds like even clearer evidence that you're a white Florida racist, to me. Repulsive.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#44 Mar 22, 2012
Tired of Silly wrote:
<quoted text>
There is absolutely ZERO evidence that Zimmerman had his gun out. Even the girlfriend, who claims she could "hear" someone shoving someone else on a phone and even know who was shoving who didn't say that Martin said "OMG he has a gun" or anything of that nature. Again, you're just making up stuff to support crucifying this guy.
I'm a woman, so my reaction to being approached on the street at night by a stranger would likely be different than that of a 17 year old athlete. If I put myself in that athlete's place, when I first noticed someone apparently following me, and if I was afraid of that person, I would have hustled my tail to where I was staying, and safety. Surely a 17 year old athlete could out-run a 28 year old guy 100 lbs heavier than him? What I certainly would NOT have done is to try to hide, try to hide my face, and continue to meander along talking on the cell phone...at least not to a girlfriend. I MIGHT have called 911 if I was truly scared.
Oh, and please show me the law that says that it is illegal to approach someone on the street. I've apparently been breaking it all my life since I talk to people when they're walking in my neighborhood, or when I am. I guess we should all go to jail!
==========

Now you are saying the black boy shot himself with Zimmerman's gun? One thing that seems certain is that the boy was going away from Zimmerman and not approaching him, this even after Zimmerman was told to not pursue or follow Trayvon. How do you get up to someone and touch them when they are fleeing or moving away from you unless you are pursuing them?

“Tea parties R 4 little girls.”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#45 Mar 22, 2012
Even the right-wing guys that sponsored this law agree that Zimmerman is in the wrong: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/21/tra...
Your Ex

United States

#46 Mar 22, 2012

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#47 Mar 22, 2012
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Just how stupid are you?
This young man was murdered under the aegis of the "Stand Your Ground" law; and the killer was let free by the investigating police.
HOW STUPID ARE YOU?
==========

Nope, it was not done according to the SYG law. It was done in violation of that law and upheld by the police who acted according to ingrained institutional police policy.

SYG law does not allow wronful shooting. What Zimmerman did was illegal. Whether there will be justice is another matter.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#48 Mar 22, 2012
Richard_ wrote:
<quoted text>You're confused, the addition of weapon doesn't grant an person authority to make lawful detentions or arrests unless a felony is committed in the presense of that person.
When a person lacks such authority, their action constitutes a crime, possibly several. Regardless, SYGL does not authorize any person to detain anybody at all.
Maybe you should actually read the text of the SYGL before you open your stupid yap?
Correcto!

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#49 Mar 22, 2012
The gun or any weapon is relevant only to the extent it is necessary to overcome the force and threat used in the attack.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#50 Mar 22, 2012
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Just how stupid are you?
This young man was murdered under the aegis of the "Stand Your Ground" law; and the killer was let free by the investigating police.
HOW STUPID ARE YOU?
==========

Furthermore, murder is a legal term and is only found upon the determination of a trier of fact such as a judge or jury. Otherwise it does not legally exist.
Tired of Silly

Tavares, FL

#51 Mar 22, 2012
WMCOL wrote:
<quoted text>
==========
Now you are saying the black boy shot himself with Zimmerman's gun? One thing that seems certain is that the boy was going away from Zimmerman and not approaching him, this even after Zimmerman was told to not pursue or follow Trayvon. How do you get up to someone and touch them when they are fleeing or moving away from you unless you are pursuing them?
Man, you have a great imagination. I said nothing of the kind and nothing that would indicate that. For cryin' out loud! But it is NOT apparent that Martin was going away from Zimmerman. I've seen no autopsy results that show the bullet point of entry and/or exit, have you? What Zimmerman was told, by a 911 operator who has no authority to give anyone orders, btw, was "we don't need you to do that" when he said he was following Martin. It is obvious that you have made your mind up. I'll wait for the Grand Jury's findings, and if necessary, the outcome of a trial. I don't believe they will arrest this man, however. I believe the evidence shows that he was attacked and fought back. I have my opinion, you have yours. Good day.
exit poll

Abingdon, VA

#52 Mar 22, 2012
Richard_ wrote:
<quoted text>nope, the means and method of killing is not defined under the SYGL, the reason is. Read the actual law and then apply it to your flawed scenario and see what you deduce.
Under the information you presented, you'd be charged with a homicide related crime.
So if somebody has punched me in the face 3 times and on their 4th swing I straighten them up with a straight left jab followed by a right to the temple and they fall dead that I will be charged with a crime.
fedupwiththemess

Ashburn, VA

#53 Mar 22, 2012
exit poll wrote:
<quoted text>So if somebody has punched me in the face 3 times and on their 4th swing I straighten them up with a straight left jab followed by a right to the temple and they fall dead that I will be charged with a crime.
If you are black yes...if you are anything other than black...no.
doozy

Maitland, FL

#54 Mar 22, 2012
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong.
The police did apply the "Stand Your Ground" law; and there is innocent blood on the ground. It is as simple as that.
I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying:**IF** Zimmerman had done as the police dispatcher said (which was to not pursue), and allowed SPD to handle it, Trayvon would be alive. SPD allowed the "stand your ground" law as a reason to not arrest Zimmerman AFTER the boy was killed, allowing his actions as "self defense". I think it's become clear that Zimmerman was, in fact, in the wrong - and the stand your ground law, which clearly states when you can and can't use deadly force, may end up being what puts Zimmerman behind bars. Unless those Skittles are considered a deadly weapon under Florida law (and even Florida isn't that ridiculous), Zimmerman isn't the hero he's claiming to be, and the evidence is piling up.
Tired of Silly

Tavares, FL

#55 Mar 22, 2012
harvey wrote:
<quoted text>
Idiotic. Because Martin didn't say "OMG he has a gun" doesn't mean he didn't have it out. He was walking, fast, AWAY from Zimmerman at the time, remember. Only at the last second did Zimmerman accost him. And he obviously had the gun out when he SHOT the kid.
The kid didn't run, ergo he's guilty? Is that your take? In fact he told his girlfriend he wasn't going to run, probably because a) he realized that'd makehim look more guilty, and b) because he was an athlete and had some pride - he didn't want to be seen as 'running away.'
Your defense of a murderer is outrageous, but I suppose expected if you're a white Floridian.
And there is NO indication that he DID have it out. We also do NOT know that he was walking away from Zimmerman. If he was truly frightened and didn't run out of pride, well sorry on him. Hiding and trying to cover his face made him look more guilty, and he did that, so I don't buy that he thought running would make him look more guilty. What bothers me the most about this case is that so many people are just making up stories in their heads about what happened. None of us know what happened. None of us likely will ever know every detail of what happened. I am basing my opinion on the hard evidence we have, which is minimal and which indicates, if you use ANY common sense, that Martin attacked Zimmerman first. I do not consider the word of the little girlfriend who claims to be able to hear shoves and even know who is shoving who to be hard evidence. I also think it is highly suspicious that she waited over 3 weeks to tell anyone her story. However, I am well aware by now that there are those reverse racists who think that any time a black kid gets killed (or arrested, or beaten up, or looked at funny) that it's a racial issue and want to make the white guy (or in this case, the hispanic guy) the villian of the piece. As I've said before, I will let the Grand Jury do their job. If it comes to that, I'll let the jury do their job and hope they do it better than the OJ jury did, since they let a murderer go free solely because he was black. If blacks want to end racism, it is long past time that they did their part in ending it. Stop playing the race card; fewer and fewer people are falling for it.

“Don't think, just dream.”

Since: Feb 12

The Alamo City

#56 Mar 22, 2012
Everyone should carry a gun.
aur56

Monett, MO

#57 Mar 22, 2012
CHECK SIX wrote:
Already LOONS are FROTHING at their LOONY TRAPS...They want to DISARM AMERICA....They HATE the 2nd AMENDMENT....LOONS like AH MODS here are having their righteous CONNIPTIONS!....This While NIT WITS like HOLDER,send GUNS across the World and does NOTHING with RECORD MURDER IN BLACK THUGSVILLE CHICAGO......
They will use this TRAGIC event now and Distort,and disseminate MIS INFORMATION.....WHAT IF THIS MORON RAN THE KID DOWN with a GOLF CART..????. It Still would be RACIST MURDER!...LETS GET RID OF GOLF CARTS!!......LOONS ARE ASS HOLES
Yea, golf cart murders are happening everyday. Guns, legal and illegal are happening everyday, shootings everyday somewhere, guns are the problem, Zimmerman had no business "patroling" with a loaded gun. A cell phone would have been the right thing to use, 911. I don't hate the 2nd ammendment, I hate gun collectors and gun sellers that don't have the brains to sell responsibly. Hunters= fine. collectors of war weapons=not fine.

“Uzi Does It”

Since: Nov 08

UZILAND

#58 Mar 22, 2012
exit poll wrote:
<quoted text>So if somebody has punched me in the face 3 times and on their 4th swing I straighten them up with a straight left jab followed by a right to the temple and they fall dead that I will be charged with a crime.
Yeah, because when you confronted the man in a manner constant to an assault after him accusing you of stealing his money off the bar, he was merely swinging in self defense as you continued your criminal attack on the man you stole from.

Since your details were incomplete, I merely filled them in so that we could continue the conversation correctly.

“Uzi Does It”

Since: Nov 08

UZILAND

#59 Mar 22, 2012
aur56 wrote:
I don't hate the 2nd ammendment, I hate gun collectors and gun sellers that don't have the brains to sell responsibly. Hunters= fine. collectors of war weapons=not fine.
You're a bald faced god damed idiot, Amendment II isn't about hunting firearms.
Jabber

Alhambra, CA

#60 Mar 22, 2012
Trippy_Roller wrote:
Everyone should carry a gun.
Good advice. The only defense against a savage hood thug is a gun. George Zimmetman might be dead now if he wasn't armed.
fedupwiththemess

Ashburn, VA

#61 Mar 22, 2012
Jabber wrote:
<quoted text>
Good advice. The only defense against a savage hood thug is a gun. George Zimmetman might be dead now if he wasn't armed.
And what defense is there against a hateful white cracka such as yourself...baztard!

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