Obama takes on power plant emissions ...

Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

There are 1518 comments on the Reuters story from Jun 25, 2013, titled Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan. In it, Reuters reports that:

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#566 Jul 27, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the only thing that keeps the deer out of my garden.
Unless that fence is six feet tall or more, they'll just jump over it. My dogs do a wonderful job at keeping deer away.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#567 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Nope, renewables would be cost competitive if mass produced and if the TRUE cost of fossil fuels are taken into account.
Read massive new taxes for "TRUE cost". This is why I support fossil fuel energy and oppose government incentives, subsidies and loan guarantees for Solyndra and other crony capitalist boondoggles.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Fossil fuels get trillions in tax breaks, subsidies, waiver of EPA regulations, etc, etc, from their crony politicians.
WTS thinks our Navy is a subsidy for fossil fuel, not peaceful trade. This is where we differ.

Would you like to specify and of these "trillions in tax breaks"? We all know, fossil fuel production and use pays heavy taxes and we depend on it to run our civilization.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
The true cost of fossil fuels are the trillions of dollars in damages to the environment and the health of every American, which they get away with not paying for because of those same crony corrupt politicians who don't hold them accountable.
You don't pay for your neighbors allergy medicine, the true cost is what you pay at the pump. WTS just wants to make gasoline cost more, so he advocates higher taxes.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
If all the stores in town sell the same product for the same price, that's not competition- it's collusion & price fixing.
Prices aren't the same, from station to station. They are close because the market is efficient, but there are still savings if you shop. There are very large price differences from state to state; taxes cost far more than the profit taken by producers, shippers and marketers.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
All transportation can be done by electric motors with the electricity generated from wind & solar.
If you go to your local store, back by the loading dock, no long distance shipping vehicles run on electricity. Batteries aren't as efficient at storing energy, as gas, diesel and natural gas.

.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Hope you enjoy paying $20/gal for gas, if you can find any!
^^^WTS wants $20/gal for gas, I want gas prices to fall; this is where we differ.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#569 Jul 28, 2013
There is NO shortage of gas or oil and there never will be.

What there is is crime, greed and corruption within our government. Remember government is run by lobbyists, unions and big business, not our elected officials. And everything they do revolves around the all mighty dollar, NOT what's best for me and you, or the environment.

Tell me........ why does someone with cash pay less for gas than someone using a credit or debit card?

Here's why: Because people do not want to go into a gas station, wait in line to pay the cashier, go back to the pump to fill up, then go back in the gas station again to get whatever change they might get back.

People don't like that inconvenience, so they pay with a card at the pump....at a higher price. Who makes out? The gas company AND the government!

Why can't we all just get the same lower price?

Since: Oct 08

Avondale Estates, GA

#570 Jul 28, 2013
libs think railroad lines go right to the loading docks of whole foods, they don't realize diesel trucks get it to their store. After that, they can thenload it into their electric car, not before.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#571 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
....The true cost of fossil fuels are the trillions of dollars in damages to the environment and the health of every American,...
Okay, let's discuss the "health of every American."

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty healthy.

Granted, some people aren't, but much of that stems from what they put into their bodies and how they treat their bodies. That's their choice. If they choose to smoke and drink alcohol or soda and watch TV all day, that's called freedom of choice. A wonderful thing in a free society.

There's been talk in Washington for some time now about raising the age that people can collect social security. They say people are living longer now than ever. Must be all those emissions and CO causing this.

Gee, I guess the general health of the American population isn't all that bad, huh?

Now let's discuss damages to the environment.

Have you ever driven by a wind farm? I have..... In my travels through Texas, Wyoming, Kansas and some other places. They stretch for miles and miles and miles. Some of the turbines are so large they can be seen an hour before approaching them! Talk about ruining the view of the horizon!!(If ruining the view was ALL they did, I could live with it.)

The first thing you notice is the destruction to what was once pristine undisturbed ecosystems full of native flora and fauna....prairie, grassland, desert scrub, and forest and marshlands in some places. Large cement slabs are placed in these areas for the turbines to sit on. Roads go to each turbine. Electric lines (a huge hazard in itself) carry the electricity to far away places. Huge monstrosities stick up into the sky with the tips of the blades spinning at up to 200 miles per hour.(Not a chance for a slow soaring hawk or crane, or even a fast flock of ducks or geese to get out of the way in time.)

Even some of the ground birds that once nested in these open areas will not nest there anymore because they need large continuous open spaces with nothing but low brush/grass clumps in the area.
http://dailyreporter.com/2009/08/05/prairie-c...

Once healthy ecosystems in ruins forever. You may not know this, but what might seem like a barren wasteland to most people is actually a bird haven! There is more wildlife in the desert than there is in an old growth forest! I've done lots of desert and grassland/prairie birding and the birdlife is so diverse and unique in these places, it's amazing!! Just a sample:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
And if you like hummingbirds, the desert is the place to be!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

You really want to ruin these places because of a HOAX? Or simply to spite big oil?

I didn't even get into discussing how turbines are built and how they are transported into the places they will be erected. We can't stick a drill into the ground for oil, but THIS is okay?
http://grist.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/aes-...
http://wvhighlands.org/wv_voice/wp-content/up...

Nor did I mention here the deadly turbines themselves to nocturnal migrant songbirds. I have already discussed that in previous posts.

OMG, How could I forget the hazards to human health?
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2013/07/26/wi...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

I only have a few characters left, so I'll skip the property value depreciation near wind farms.

Instead, I'll leave you with this:(video may be disturbing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

In summary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#572 Jul 28, 2013
From the people who know:

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#573 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
There is NO shortage of gas or oil and there never will be.
What there is is crime, greed and corruption within our government. Remember government is run by lobbyists, unions and big business, not our elected officials. And everything they do revolves around the all mighty dollar, NOT what's best for me and you, or the environment.
Tell me........ why does someone with cash pay less for gas than someone using a credit or debit card?
Here's why: Because people do not want to go into a gas station, wait in line to pay the cashier, go back to the pump to fill up, then go back in the gas station again to get whatever change they might get back.
People don't like that inconvenience, so they pay with a card at the pump....at a higher price. Who makes out? The gas company AND the government!
Why can't we all just get the same lower price?
Because if you use your card, that financial service company gets its cut too. It costs the vendor more to use cards, than cash.

You get what you pay for.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#574 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless that fence is six feet tall or more, they'll just jump over it. My dogs do a wonderful job at keeping deer away.
Well I guess no one told the deer, because they haven't been in my garden since I put it up years ago.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#575 Jul 28, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Read massive new taxes for "TRUE cost". This is why I support fossil fuel energy and oppose government incentives, subsidies and loan guarantees for Solyndra and other crony capitalist boondoggles.
.
<quoted text>WTS thinks our Navy is a subsidy for fossil fuel, not peaceful trade. This is where we differ.
Would you like to specify and of these "trillions in tax breaks"? We all know, fossil fuel production and use pays heavy taxes and we depend on it to run our civilization.
.
<quoted text>You don't pay for your neighbors allergy medicine, the true cost is what you pay at the pump. WTS just wants to make gasoline cost more, so he advocates higher taxes.
.
<quoted text>Prices aren't the same, from station to station. They are close because the market is efficient, but there are still savings if you shop. There are very large price differences from state to state; taxes cost far more than the profit taken by producers, shippers and marketers.
.
<quoted text>If you go to your local store, back by the loading dock, no long distance shipping vehicles run on electricity. Batteries aren't as efficient at storing energy, as gas, diesel and natural gas.
.
.
<quoted text>^^^WTS wants $20/gal for gas, I want gas prices to fall; this is where we differ.
No, the true cost of fossil fuels means the oil/gas/coal companies have to pay for the damage they cause to the environment and people's health and the cost of all the wars to keep oil coming from the middle east. Since those costs would be passed on to the consumer, it would then be reflected at the gas pump and in your utility bills.

No taxes are necessary; we just need to stop letting them get away with TRILLIONS in damage without paying for it. The cost to restore one open pit coal mine or mountaintop removal would be hundreds of billions alone. The Iraq war cost a TRILLION just to keep the cheap oil flowing, and that doesn't count the thousands of lives lost.

Trains can run on electricity; local delivery trucks from the train depot can as well.

It doesn't matter what you or I want,$5 then $10 then $20/gal gas is coming one way or another. Though you likely won't be able to find any gas by that time, so it doesn't really matter what they charge at that point.

The military & government will need whatever oil/gas we have to just to keep the Chinese & Indians from taking over completely.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#576 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
There is NO shortage of gas or oil and there never will be.
What there is is crime, greed and corruption within our government. Remember government is run by lobbyists, unions and big business, not our elected officials. And everything they do revolves around the all mighty dollar, NOT what's best for me and you, or the environment.
Tell me........ why does someone with cash pay less for gas than someone using a credit or debit card?
Here's why: Because people do not want to go into a gas station, wait in line to pay the cashier, go back to the pump to fill up, then go back in the gas station again to get whatever change they might get back.
People don't like that inconvenience, so they pay with a card at the pump....at a higher price. Who makes out? The gas company AND the government!
Why can't we all just get the same lower price?
Actually it's because credit cards charge the business for each transaction, so cash transactions are cheaper than credit card transactions. Any business could charge less for cash transactions, but it would make pricing all their products a nightmare. That's why many businesses don't accept credit/debit transactions under a certain dollar amount- it eats into their profit margin.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#577 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
There is NO shortage of gas or oil and there never will be.
Keep telling yourself that; especially when you're pumping 2 gallons of $10/gal gas off your ration card.....

True, there's plenty of oil in the ground, but getting it out in a cost effective manner in sufficient volume to meet the needs of billions of Chinese & Indians is going to be the problem.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#578 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I guess no one told the deer, because they haven't been in my garden since I put it up years ago.
My yard is fenced all the way around. Some years the deer jump over and eat my Arborvitaes. Some years they don't. Depends on the severity of the winter and what other food sources are available. I certainly wouldn't risk birds' lives to keep the deer out. I would shoot and eat the deer first, but then, I don't care if the deer eat some stuff in my yard.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#579 Jul 28, 2013
inbred Genius wrote:
libs think railroad lines go right to the loading docks of whole foods, they don't realize diesel trucks get it to their store. After that, they can thenload it into their electric car, not before.
Rail lines once delivered all goods. There is no reason they can't do so again. There is absolutely no need for semis trucking goods across country.

Our Walmart is a perfect example of the stupidity of the sheeple. They actually had the move the railroad tracks to go around the new Walmart site, and every semi has to cross the tracks twice just to deliver goods from across the country.

Now why couldn't they have put a spur off the railroad track right into the Walmart loading dock?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#580 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, let's discuss the "health of every American."
I don't know about you, but I'm pretty healthy.
Granted, some people aren't, but much of that stems from what they .(deleted for space....)
Try shorter more concise posts and I might bother to read them.

2/3rd of Americans are overweight.
1/2 of Americans are obese.
People may be living longer, but they aren't healthier- we've just gotten better at prolonging death.

I'd rather look at a wind farm than an oil refinery or coal fired electric plant any day.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#581 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
My yard is fenced all the way around. Some years the deer jump over and eat my Arborvitaes. Some years they don't. Depends on the severity of the winter and what other food sources are available. I certainly wouldn't risk birds' lives to keep the deer out. I would shoot and eat the deer first, but then, I don't care if the deer eat some stuff in my yard.
If you don't care then why bother with fencing at all? Wouldn't it be more environmentally friendly to leave it all open?

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#582 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the true cost of fossil fuels means the oil/gas/coal companies have to pay for the damage they cause to the environment and people's health....
You left out 'wind/solar.' Or does the damage they cause to the environment and people's health get a pass? Environmental laws only apply to those "other" companies?
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
and the cost of all the wars to keep oil coming from the middle east.
If we wanted their oil, why didn't we just nuke 'em and take it?
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Since those costs would be passed on to the consumer, it would then be reflected at the gas pump and in your utility bills.
No taxes are necessary; we just need to stop letting them get away with TRILLIONS in damage without paying for it. The cost to restore one open pit coal mine or mountaintop removal would be hundreds of billions alone.
Why not leave the open coal pit mine for the bats when we're done with it? Other than a safety gate to keep people, pets and livestock out, it would be relatively cheap. Why do we need to "restore" the mountain top? Wildflowers, shrubs and trees will grow all by themselves once the birds and squirrels plant the seeds? That's a fairly cheap fix too.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
The Iraq war cost a TRILLION just to keep the cheap oil flowing, and that doesn't count the thousands of lives lost.
Trains can run on electricity; local delivery trucks from the train depot can as well.
How far can a vehicle run on electricity?
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't matter what you or I want,$5 then $10 then $20/gal gas is coming one way or another. Though you likely won't be able to find any gas by that time, so it doesn't really matter what they charge at that point.
The military & government will need whatever oil/gas we have to just to keep the Chinese & Indians from taking over completely.
The people could bring down the price of gas Bigtime if American's stuck together and refused to pay it.(Like the truckers did when I was kid) But everyone is too chicken to quit going to work, quit driving and quit buying gas for a week.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#583 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep telling yourself that; especially when you're pumping 2 gallons of $10/gal gas off your ration card.....
True, there's plenty of oil in the ground, but getting it out in a cost effective manner in sufficient volume to meet the needs of billions of Chinese & Indians is going to be the problem.
I don't care about what other countries do. We have oil here and we should drill for it and keep it here. Charity begins at home and we have a lot of poor and middle class people suffering because of the high gas prices, which raises the prices of all the other necessities.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#584 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Rail lines once delivered all goods. There is no reason they can't do so again. There is absolutely no need for semis trucking goods across country.
Our Walmart is a perfect example of the stupidity of the sheeple. They actually had the move the railroad tracks to go around the new Walmart site, and every semi has to cross the tracks twice just to deliver goods from across the country.
Now why couldn't they have put a spur off the railroad track right into the Walmart loading dock?
They are removing railroad tracks all over the place. This I disagree with. We should be using trains more to transport goods. And there are too many semis tearing up the roads.
litesong

Everett, WA

#585 Jul 28, 2013
raptor in michigan wrote:
If we wanted their oil, why didn't we just nuke 'em and take it?
Such an idea coming from a transplanted euro....... yeah, that's about right.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#586 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Try shorter more concise posts and I might bother to read them.
2/3rd of Americans are overweight.
1/2 of Americans are obese.
People may be living longer, but they aren't healthier- we've just gotten better at prolonging death.
I'd rather look at a wind farm than an oil refinery or coal fired electric plant any day.
You don't bother to read it because you know it is full of facts you don't want to hear. You're afraid of hearing a different point of view because it just might make you think.

This post tells me that you're speaking from emotion rather than fact.

I have a gas well on my property in Lewiston. It has never hurt a thing. You almost can't even see it. It is surrounded by beautiful meadow flowers and grasses and full of butterflies and dragonflies. The birds love the mixed hedgerow that surrounds it.

It's true... oil refineries aren't a pretty sight. I've seen plenty of them while down in Texas bird watching. Funny thing is, Texas has some of the best bird watching/hunting/wildlife viewing of any state. Even with all that oil, wildlife thrives! And it takes a whole lot less land to extract and refine gas and oil, compared to the amount of land needed for wind farms to power the same number of homes. I'll vote to save more habitat any day. After all, it is habitat destruction that is the greatest threat to this planet....That effects wildlife AND humans.

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