People do not need assault weapons: d...

People do not need assault weapons: defense secretary

There are 4995 comments on the Reuters story from Jan 17, 2013, titled People do not need assault weapons: defense secretary. In it, Reuters reports that:

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta joined the gun control debate on Thursday when he told troops at a military base in Italy that only soldiers needed armor-piercing bullets or assault weapons.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

“Constitutionalis t”

Since: Dec 10

Spring, TX

#2718 Feb 14, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
You are advancing on the concept that there is supposition of a crime when data is collected.
I think that is a shaky premise.
A robust system of roadblocks are in place to mitigate the danger you perceive. The first item is that in politics no parties advantage is eternal.
Second the will of the people is clear gun ownership is viewed as an asset and a right.. As long as the Gov't is being constantly questioned and looked at skeptically, I think we shall be able to respect the constitution and collect data for legitimate purpose.
Will the data ever be abused, probably, however the guardians os the second amendment are sure to alert us .
And if we deserve the freedom we enjoy, we will act, though never to everyones expectation
Which has the authority in our system of government: The (current) will of the people, or the Constitution?

We have stumbled on the actual issue.
Of what purpose is the Constitution?
And, are we a constitutional republic?

We now have to answer these two questions to continue this discussion.

“Stop the Brain Rot”

Since: Jan 12

Take a Looonng Vacation

#2719 Feb 14, 2013
DBWriter wrote:
<quoted text>
Which has the authority in our system of government: The (current) will of the people, or the Constitution?
We have stumbled on the actual issue.
Of what purpose is the Constitution?
And, are we a constitutional republic?
We now have to answer these two questions to continue this discussion.
Obviously BOTH the will of the people AND the Constitution are important in self-governance. Not an either-or question, sorry.

Of course we're a Constitutional republic, and the Constitution forms a framework for governance and guarantee of peoples' rights.

Now what?:)
Say the Truth

Ann Arbor, MI

#2720 Feb 14, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
You are advancing on the concept that there is supposition of a crime when data is collected.
I think that is a shaky premise.
A robust system of roadblocks are in place to mitigate the danger you perceive. The first item is that in politics no parties advantage is eternal.
Second the will of the people is clear gun ownership is viewed as an asset and a right.. As long as the Gov't is being constantly questioned and looked at skeptically, I think we shall be able to respect the constitution and collect data for legitimate purpose.
Will the data ever be abused, probably, however the guardians os the second amendment are sure to alert us .
And if we deserve the freedom we enjoy, we will act, though never to everyones expectation
Here's an idea. Let's let the government force registration of all computers and smart phones, and also require that all communications and social network postings (like this one) be subject to a background check and all postings are recorded by the government. You must also register if you want to attend a church or political rally.

As long as the Gov't is being constantly questioned and looked at skeptically, I think we shall be able to respect the constitution and collect data for legitimate purpose.
Will the data ever be abused, probably, however the guardians os the first amendment are sure to alert us .

“Stop the Brain Rot”

Since: Jan 12

Take a Looonng Vacation

#2721 Feb 14, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's an idea. Let's let the government force registration of all computers and smart phones, and also require that all communications and social network postings (like this one) be subject to a background check and all postings are recorded by the government. You must also register if you want to attend a church or political rally.
As long as the Gov't is being constantly questioned and looked at skeptically, I think we shall be able to respect the constitution and collect data for legitimate purpose.
Will the data ever be abused, probably, however the guardians os the first amendment are sure to alert us .
The government already monitors a lot of your communications, genius.

The First Amendment would make it unConstitution to "register" people for Church.

Many political rallies do vet those in attendance, particularly when held by one party or the other. Critics or protesters are often kicked out.

Here's an idea...make intelligent arguments instead of firing off your blunderbuss filled with strawmen.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#2722 Feb 14, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's an idea. Let's let the government force registration of all computers and smart phones, and also require that all communications and social network postings (like this one) be subject to a background check and all postings are recorded by the government. You must also register if you want to attend a church or political rally.
As long as the Gov't is being constantly questioned and looked at skeptically, I think we shall be able to respect the constitution and collect data for legitimate purpose.
Will the data ever be abused, probably, however the guardians os the first amendment are sure to alert us .
Ain't that the truth!

People are so freewheeling with other peoples rights but god forbid you touch theirs.

“Constitutionalis t”

Since: Dec 10

Spring, TX

#2723 Feb 14, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously BOTH the will of the people AND the Constitution are important in self-governance. Not an either-or question, sorry.
Of course we're a Constitutional republic, and the Constitution forms a framework for governance and guarantee of peoples' rights.
Now what?:)
What happens when the current whim of the people are contradictory to the Constitution?
Do we cease to be a constitutional republic to satisfy that current whim of the people?

Of what role is the Constitution in our government?
If the whim of the people has more authority than the Constitution, are we a constitutional republic?

You can't have it both ways.

au contraire

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#2724 Feb 14, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Homicide WITH A GUN, idiot. One wouldn't have thought they'd have to explain that, but you're not too smart.
Yes, last year there were 8375 deaths attributed to gun violence. There were an estimated 1,231,342 million abortions. Who is the real killers.....liberals, abortionist and people that promote it like Obama.

au contraire

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#2725 Feb 14, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously BOTH the will of the people AND the Constitution are important in self-governance. Not an either-or question, sorry.
Of course we're a Constitutional republic, and the Constitution forms a framework for governance and guarantee of peoples' rights.
Now what?:)
If it were only true in liberal land.

By Andrew Johnson
February 13, 2013 4:04 P.M. Comments

Four California high-school students were reportedly suspended for chanting “U.S.A! U.S.A!” and wearing American flag bandanas during a basketball game. While their punishment has since been rescinded, school administrators said “the incident is far from over.”

If it's pro communist..........it's liberalism at its finest.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#2726 Feb 14, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
The First Amendment would make it unConstitution to "register" people for Church.
Correct! Just like the 2nd Amendment makes it unconstitutional to require the registration of firearms. You know....that whole "shall not be infringed" thing. And any hurdle or roadblock that must be overcome to exercise a right IS an infringement.

au contraire

“Forever Is Promised To No One”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#2727 Feb 14, 2013
Call guillotine.com . They will cut through the red tape Obama couldn't.

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#2728 Feb 14, 2013
Besara wrote:
<quoted text>The database and the laws have little to do with each other. It's the penalties that are given when the laws are broken that need to be made stiffer.
How do you fairly enforce existing aw if the data base is incomplete. If my data is in the base and yours is not. if your guns are stolen the gov't will not be able to check a gun a perp is found with and have an on the spot legit reason to haul him in. the divorce between data and law enforcement is salient.
There is no point in changing sentence lengths if you can not arrest due to a lack of probable cause
Say the Truth

Ann Arbor, MI

#2729 Feb 14, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
The government already monitors a lot of your communications, genius.
The First Amendment would make it unConstitution to "register" people for Church.
Many political rallies do vet those in attendance, particularly when held by one party or the other. Critics or protesters are often kicked out.
Here's an idea...make intelligent arguments instead of firing off your blunderbuss filled with strawmen.
As usual, you are too freaking DUMB to understand the parallel, you despicable cur.

They don't monitor it specifically to YOU as a person, nitwit, after first registering your device.

If the 2nd amendment is open to registration in order to "allow" you to exercise your RIGHT, then so should the 1st. What's the difference?

Signed-
"Potential murderer"
Say the Truth

Ann Arbor, MI

#2730 Feb 14, 2013
Nah, they aren't coming for your weapons:

'Missouri Democrats Introduce Legislation to Confiscate Firearms – Gives Gun Owners 90 Days to Turn in Weapons'

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02/misso...
Say the Truth

Ann Arbor, MI

#2731 Feb 14, 2013
au contraire wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, last year there were 8375 deaths attributed to gun violence. There were an estimated 1,231,342 million abortions. Who is the real killers.....liberals, abortionist and people that promote it like Obama.
BINGO
Say the Truth

Ann Arbor, MI

#2732 Feb 14, 2013
au contraire wrote:
<quoted text>If it were only true in liberal land.
By Andrew Johnson
February 13, 2013 4:04 P.M. Comments
Four California high-school students were reportedly suspended for chanting “U.S.A! U.S.A!” and wearing American flag bandanas during a basketball game. While their punishment has since been rescinded, school administrators said “the incident is far from over.”
If it's pro communist..........it's liberalism at its finest.
I wonder what the "Wise Latina" will vote if this gets to the SCOTUS?
Say the Truth

Ann Arbor, MI

#2733 Feb 14, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct! Just like the 2nd Amendment makes it unconstitutional to require the registration of firearms. You know....that whole "shall not be infringed" thing. And any hurdle or roadblock that must be overcome to exercise a right IS an infringement.
The 2nd is already seriously infringed at the state and local levels.

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#2734 Feb 14, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's an idea. Let's let the government force registration of all computers and smart phones, and also require that all communications and social network postings (like this one) be subject to a background check and all postings are recorded by the government. You must also register if you want to attend a church or political rally.
As long as the Gov't is being constantly questioned and looked at skeptically, I think we shall be able to respect the constitution and collect data for legitimate purpose.
Will the data ever be abused, probably, however the guardians os the first amendment are sure to alert us .
all of your data computer data is collected and usable by law enforcement.
If you thought else wise, think again.
When tey catch a perv for sending and obtaining child porn, how do they know who is downloading what....clearly they have access to that information...this page keep a rolling log of content.
The Gov't collecting data on who attend what church.... I can't see why ...however I might be available with a search warrant....Also with the way faith is viewed by a majority of the population,....i don't fear that.
You and I are the guardians of our liberties . When ever we feel our rights infringed upon we protest the infringement . when we hear such protests fair minded citizens weigh those protests and if valid to any degree we join the opposition all part of democracy.
Thus the serious, contributors who I disagree with, I respect. and then I can learn to respect an outcome that i disagree with , and strive to change it.. As long as we , folks like us, who have a serious interest, remain interested i feel optimistic.

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#2735 Feb 14, 2013
DBWriter wrote:
<quoted text>
What happens when the current whim of the people are contradictory to the Constitution?
Do we cease to be a constitutional republic to satisfy that current whim of the people?
Of what role is the Constitution in our government?
If the whim of the people has more authority than the Constitution, are we a constitutional republic?
You can't have it both ways.
See prohibition
In a functioning Republic a mistake can be corrected.

“Constitutionalis t”

Since: Dec 10

Spring, TX

#2736 Feb 14, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
You are advancing on the concept that there is supposition of a crime when data is collected.
I think that is a shaky premise.
A robust system of roadblocks are in place to mitigate the danger you perceive. The first item is that in politics no parties advantage is eternal.
Second the will of the people is clear gun ownership is viewed as an asset and a right.. As long as the Gov't is being constantly questioned and looked at skeptically, I think we shall be able to respect the constitution and collect data for legitimate purpose.
Will the data ever be abused, probably, however the guardians os the second amendment are sure to alert us .
And if we deserve the freedom we enjoy, we will act, though never to everyones expectation
Absolutely not.
There has to be a crime first. If there is no crime detected, then the government cannot invade anyone's privacy.
Additionally, after the crime has been detected, an officer of the court must authorize the government to invade any individual's privacy.
If no crime is detected, the government is not allowed to collect data on that individual, effectively separating that individual from "the people".
If no officer of the court signs a warrant to invade an individuals privacy and collect data on that individual, then the government cannot separate that individual from "the people".

The government must remember that there must first be a crime before there can be an investigation that warrants collecting private data on an individual.
Purchasing a firearm is not a crime.

“Constitutionalis t”

Since: Dec 10

Spring, TX

#2737 Feb 14, 2013
tha Professor wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously BOTH the will of the people AND the Constitution are important in self-governance. Not an either-or question, sorry.
Of course we're a Constitutional republic, and the Constitution forms a framework for governance and guarantee of peoples' rights.
Now what?:)
It is only the Constitution that allows the will of the people to be put into effect.

Get rid of the Constitution and you can get rid of the will of the people being an effective control on government.

You can't have it both ways.
We are, or we are not a constitutional republic.

But, back to the question:

What do you do when the (perhaps induced) whim of the people are in contradiction with the Constitution?
Do you eliminate the Constitution?
If you allow the political whim to govern, are we a constitutional republic?

What is the role of the Constitution?

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