Putting property over people

Putting property over people

There are 36 comments on the Evening Sun story from Oct 25, 2009, titled Putting property over people. In it, Evening Sun reports that:

What's more important, property or people? I'd say people. However, some in Congress believe property is more important.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Evening Sun.

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sarcasm man

Newville, PA

#21 Oct 28, 2009
1. Medicare is not that great. Not sure why you feel it is. First its bankrupt, second according to your own president it's filled with fraud and double payments. And lastly when it was enacted in 1968 it was going to cost 10 billion 25 years later, however it cost 107 billion.

2. those plans are private insurance plans that are low because of competition. You know that pesky thing America's economy was founded on that you bash!

3. If you have proof that they are lying please contact the IRS/their shareholders.

What poll are you looking at? I have not seen one poll that a majority supports a public option. The highest is 47%, hardly a majority. I belive your citing the same poll other libs use that has something like 70% saying healthcare needs to be changed. That doesn't mean they want a gov't run healthcare system.

Finally I want to say I always think its cute when women think they know something other than baking. You know honey, if you put on some make-up and a nice dress and stop trying to think about stuff above you...you might be able to find a man!

Since: Aug 08

Hanover, Pa

#22 Oct 28, 2009
Sarah P wrote:
So, none of you morons here have yet to address:
(1) Why, if Medicare (a public option government run program) is good enough for 151 current Members of Congress, why is it not good enough to pass down to other citizens?
(2) Why, if Members of Congress can have a health plan that has a $157 monthly premium for a single person and a $300 deductible, why is it not good enough to pass down to other citizens, such as Laila.
(3) If you wackos here believe that members of AHIP are truly making only 2% or 3% in profits -- is that before CEO pays and bonuses --, then I really do wish you would buy the rental properties I own and I'll give you a fantastic price on them.
Have you noticed that you seem to have a very small mutual admiration society here. You used to have several people commenting here on these comment pages, but you idiots are so enamored in your pea brained egos and the nonsense you believe that people have just said, there is absolutely no use attempting to discuss things with them -- they are idiots with their heads in the sand.
Finally, have you notice that you are, as usual, in the minority and out of touch with mainstream normal Americans. Polls show that a majority of people support a public option.
Oops, but you guys here are all white middle class guys who have what you need and the heck with anyone else. What you are truly afraid of is that while white middle class men used to be a majority, you will in a few short years, be a minority. HA, HA
Classy as usual Laila oh I mean Sarah P.
R U Kyddingme

Dahlonega, GA

#23 Oct 28, 2009
Tippy wrote:
<quoted text>
There are NO states allowed to have free market(interstate competition to market health insurance across state lines) That is a Federal mandate and what keeps the free market for operating as it should to keep premiums lower. Hershey's Candy Co. makes more profit than health insurance companies. Now, vendors for Medicare and Medicaid (motorized chairs, lifts, special bathtubs ... that is another story.
wanna bet? Someone at an insurer I was receiving benefits from--I was to get these for a set number of years as my injury/illness was permanent. I paid very well for this coverage as part of my job and after a number of years they started sending me around to THEIR doctors (read pr*stitutes) without so much as my records and these paragons of medical virtue, one of whom did serious time for a violent crime--beating a woman about the head with a claw hammer, then got his license back--did not even pretend to do exams. The one who was not an insurance Dr but hired by my former employer, a state gov't, did find for me in great detail but then the insurer got him to change his mind and he will not explain to this day. Finally I was sent to someone--aPhD, not a MD--for testing. He is a well-known insurance hoor. WITHIN MINUTES--AND THIS GUY WAS PAID 4 FIGURES JUST TO READ MY RECORDS (THE INSURER WAS NOW TRYING TO COVER THEIR BEHINDS) I was injured. This guy knew if he read the records, I had serious cervical and thoracic spine surgeries and ongoing problems. I have the best neuros in the state in question and the country,but this non-MD knew better than a world-reknowned doc the BBC did a documentary about with a celebrity clientle who came thousands of miles to see him. I'd also had a MRI done a few weeks earlier. I was forced to stay there for hours. This is legally non-aggravated assault and some sort of illegal detention. I had to have extensive and complicated cervical spin surgery--including the removal and patching of the top layer of my spinal cord--and 5 days in the hospital. I continue to leak spinal fluid and just had to have my second neck surgey in two years because of what thi sob did to me. I may never walk normally again and I assure you this has been very painful and unpleasant. Under the law of the state in question, I have no civil or criminal recourse as all the parties have immunity. The state, their insurer, and their drs. I am maimed for life and someone at the insurer got a big bonus and I know this is true because I have the records. There are legislators working to change this but you are wrong and I am living proof of that. I have an attorney on another issue related somewhat to this and he is very clear on what happined.
R U Kyddingme

Dahlonega, GA

#24 Oct 28, 2009
Tippy wrote:
<quoted text>
There are NO states allowed to have free market(interstate competition to market health insurance across state lines) That is a Federal mandate and what keeps the free market for operating as it should to keep premiums lower. Hershey's Candy Co. makes more profit than health insurance companies. Now, vendors for Medicare and Medicaid (motorized chairs, lifts, special bathtubs ... that is another story.
I implied that there are 4 states where insurance companies get away with plenty and did not imply this was an across state line thing although I am still covered by the blue cross of my previous state. I have been seriously abused by another insurer and I have become VERY familiar with ther rights and what they are allowed to get away with and the obscene profits they make.
sarcasm man

Newville, PA

#25 Oct 28, 2009
So who exactly are you upset with? Insurance companies or Doctors? You seem to be all over the place. And how is 2% profit obscene?

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#26 Oct 28, 2009
Sarah P wrote:
Finally, have you notice that you are, as usual, in the minority and out of touch with mainstream normal Americans. Polls show that a majority of people support a public option.
Wow, you're going to be in for a real surprise, sweetie.

Since: Aug 08

Hanover, Pa

#27 Oct 28, 2009
sarcasm man wrote:
So who exactly are you upset with? Insurance companies or Doctors? You seem to be all over the place. And how is 2% profit obscene?
They are lying as an industry to the SEC of course. Plus they are driving down margins by paying bonuses. Take United Health Care. They are one of the big players in health insurance. In 2008, they had $81 billion in revenue. Their net profit was 3.6%. Their executive compensation (which includes salaries, bonuses and cash value of non-cash compensation, ie stock options) was $25 million. This compensation equates to .003% of total revenue. In other words you could not pay your executive team anything and your net profit would still be 3.6%. But again, the lefties don't like to let the facts get in the way of their government takeovers.
just a thought

Plymouth, MN

#28 Oct 28, 2009
who cares what the businesses profit was....... next we'll be saying to grocery stores and restaurants your profit is too much and there are hungry people, or to exxon your profit is too much and people are cold.... people need to be self sufficient and deal with their own issues not expect government to take care of and personally I don't want to be taken care of, I've been doing fine on my own
R U Kyddingme

Dahlonega, GA

#29 Oct 28, 2009
just a thought wrote:
who cares what the businesses profit was....... next we'll be saying to grocery stores and restaurants your profit is too much and there are hungry people, or to exxon your profit is too much and people are cold.... people need to be self sufficient and deal with their own issues not expect government to take care of and personally I don't want to be taken care of, I've been doing fine on my own
When profits are obscene, several hundred or even thousand percent, at the cost of denying needed services/treatment to sick and injured, including children, then you should care. Those people pay into those plans and when some paper pusher with a high school diploma and no soul says no because she wants a $500 bonus or a cruise to Cabo, then it's not just immoral, it should be criminal. If any other business did this the SEC would be all over them, among others. You get upset when the bad banks paid their CEO's millions, this is the same thing and it is wrong and UNAMERICAN. This is a chapter out of how Nazi Germany decided who was fit to live and what irks me is the Bee-otches who screwed me over waltzed into the front of their respective churches with their overdressed kids in tow paid for with blood money and held themselves up as fine Christians. Jesus wept.
mjh233

United States

#30 Oct 29, 2009
National Flood Insurance IS AN OPTION, Automobile Insurance IS AN OPTION, NO ONE IS PUTTING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD TO BUY IT.

The so-called "government option" for health care will cause citizens to be forced to pay money or be a criminal. No exception. IRS-enforced. Put in-jail. At the point of a gun. DO YOU GET IT NOW?

This war is between those who want free healthcare, like "becky" here, and the rest of us who will have to pay for it.
just a thought

Philadelphia, PA

#31 Oct 29, 2009
mjh233 wrote:
National Flood Insurance IS AN OPTION, Automobile Insurance IS AN OPTION, NO ONE IS PUTTING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD TO BUY IT.
The so-called "government option" for health care will cause citizens to be forced to pay money or be a criminal. No exception. IRS-enforced. Put in-jail. At the point of a gun. DO YOU GET IT NOW?
This war is between those who want free healthcare, like "becky" here, and the rest of us who will have to pay for it.
exactly, we live in an entitled society, people feel they are entitled but don't want to work for anything. No one is putting up attorneys profits why is that?WOuld their profit margin way exceed that of the healthcare industry? Healthcare needs reform just not a complete government intervention. I'm tired of working my tail off week after to week to support other people who choose not to take care of themselves. For those that are unable there's already systems to help them, we DOn't need more entitlement programs and until I can see a price tag on this public option "affordable" is subjective. Affordable to who's income mine?

Since: Aug 08

Hanover, Pa

#32 Oct 29, 2009
R U Kyddingme wrote:
<quoted text>When profits are obscene, several hundred or even thousand percent, at the cost of denying needed services/treatment to sick and injured, including children, then you should care. Those people pay into those plans and when some paper pusher with a high school diploma and no soul says no because she wants a $500 bonus or a cruise to Cabo, then it's not just immoral, it should be criminal. If any other business did this the SEC would be all over them, among others. You get upset when the bad banks paid their CEO's millions, this is the same thing and it is wrong and UNAMERICAN. This is a chapter out of how Nazi Germany decided who was fit to live and what irks me is the Bee-otches who screwed me over waltzed into the front of their respective churches with their overdressed kids in tow paid for with blood money and held themselves up as fine Christians. Jesus wept.
Wow. 1000% profit. Somehow these companies are earning 10 times their revenues. Now they are Nazis too.. Yikes.
Laila

Minneapolis, MN

#33 Oct 30, 2009
mjh233 wrote:
National Flood Insurance IS AN OPTION, Automobile Insurance IS AN OPTION, NO ONE IS PUTTING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD TO BUY IT.
The so-called "government option" for health care will cause citizens to be forced to pay money or be a criminal. No exception. IRS-enforced. Put in-jail. At the point of a gun. DO YOU GET IT NOW?
This war is between those who want free healthcare, like "becky" here, and the rest of us who will have to pay for it.
No, you're wrong. Auto insurance is NOT an option. To register your car in Pennsylvania and most other states you must have car insurance. If you are caught driving without car insurance, you will be ticketed at a minimum. If you have a mortgage, you must have homeowners insurance and in most cases the payment is escrowed. In some states, if you choose to ride a motorcycle without a helmut, you have to have proof of a certain amount of health insurance so all insurance is not optional.
I personally want everyone to have health insurance just for the reasons you state here, so I am not blindly paying for other's health care. Doctors can and do turn away patients that don't have health insurance. Hospitals are not allowed to do the same. So, many people without health insurance use the hospital emergency rooms as a doctor's visit, even for minor things such as colds. Just who do you think pays for that? You and I do. Here is a sample of what happens to hospitals because of the number of patients that they must treat, that don't have insurance and can't pay -- they close. http://cbs2chicago.com/local/st.francis.hospi... . Also they pass the costs onto you. Additionally, if people are not clogging up emergency rooms with minor things, real emergencies will be attended to in a more timely manner.
As to the letter writer expecting free health care, I believe her statement about "people will still pay premiums" indicates that she is not expecting "free health care." The same as I don't. However, tell me, why if the Federal Employees Blue Cross plan premium of $157 for a single person is a sufficient premium for the insurance company, then why is my premium $381 for a worse package. YOU are paying for the difference on the government employees' health. The insurance companies keep raising premium on individuals and decreasing coverage. In the 6 years I've been back in PA, my Blue Cross premium has increased from $244 to $381, an increase of 56%, an average of 9.1% a year. Oops, nasty me, being disgusted that my premium increased 3 times their supposed 3% yearly profit. Additionally, I've never met my deductible of $1,500. So, for 6 years I've paid Blue Cross anywhere from $2928 to $4572 per year, somewhere around $22,000 to $23,000 and they have not paid out one single penny toward my health care -- not even for a darn flu shot. Plus, they decrease the benefits every year. This year, they decreased the number of days for certain therapies from 30 days to 20 days. Plus they discontinued coverage for 12 items. Additionally, with my $1,500 deductible, I have never met my deductible. They have paid nothing. Now tell me again how great my Blue Cross plan is. Unlike the federal plan, I don't have preventative care or immunizations -- something I find stupid. Why not catch something while it is easier, and probably cheaper, to treat. No, if you get something, they just cancel you.
My above case is for a single person. What do you think the costs are for a family. I feel sorry for you on here that are so darn selfish. I hope you and your family never have to go through the horrors that people without insurance face. Also there are plenty of families who thought they had good insurance until they had to use it and the insurance companies dropped them or cut coverage.

Since: Aug 08

Hanover, Pa

#34 Oct 30, 2009
Laila,

We agree with you that there needs to be reform. We just don't believe that a complete government overhaul is the answer. I know that flies in the face of your "you are selfish and don't care" tactic but it is the truth. Once enacted this bill will be permanent (or at least will last until the Chinese decides to stop financing it). Like every other program (including Medicare) it will result in payments exceeding income and we will be having discussions about how to save it.
Sharon Sheppard

United States

#35 Oct 30, 2009
Sarah P wrote:
So, none of you morons here have yet to address:
(1) Why, if Medicare (a public option government run program) is good enough for 151 current Members of Congress, why is it not good enough to pass down to other citizens?
(2) Why, if Members of Congress can have a health plan that has a $157 monthly premium for a single person and a $300 deductible, why is it not good enough to pass down to other citizens, such as Laila.
(3) If you wackos here believe that members of AHIP are truly making only 2% or 3% in profits -- is that before CEO pays and bonuses --, then I really do wish you would buy the rental properties I own and I'll give you a fantastic price on them.
Have you noticed that you seem to have a very small mutual admiration society here. You used to have several people commenting here on these comment pages, but you idiots are so enamored in your pea brained egos and the nonsense you believe that people have just said, there is absolutely no use attempting to discuss things with them -- they are idiots with their heads in the sand.
Finally, have you notice that you are, as usual, in the minority and out of touch with mainstream normal Americans. Polls show that a majority of people support a public option.
Oops, but you guys here are all white middle class guys who have what you need and the heck with anyone else. What you are truly afraid of is that while white middle class men used to be a majority, you will in a few short years, be a minority. HA, HA
The real concern here is this - tax dollars are generated by taxing working America. The jobs that used to sustain our standard of living expectations are no longer here. Our consumer power has been diminished by both increased taxes & reduced earning capability based on reduced productivity due to lack of demand. The world can buy the same quality for far less in places other than America. We have done this to ourselves. The policies created YEARS ago that delivered our consumer market to China jump-started their economy.(They have a middle class now larger than our entire population) We were glad to expect high wages, insurance, and pension benefits while buying cheap products elsewhere. How did anyone think this could work long-term? Yes health care should be a priority but those in Washington must look at how they intend to fund this and all expectations. Either cut government programs that are not truly needed or start supporting American labor by buying only what they make. You cannot kill the Golden Goose then be shocked that you are hungry later.

As for your comment about white middle class males- how sad that you have succumbed to boiling this down to something racially motivated. I hope that the majority of AMERICANS no matter what their race, gender, or religious affiliation get a clue. A responsible parent does not always provide a child with what they demand. Neither should a responsible Government.
sarcasm man

Newville, PA

#36 Oct 30, 2009
Laila,
So you agree with Republicans. Federal employees get a better rate because, 1. they get a group rate and 2. they can choose from hundreds of providers all trying to get their business. That is what is called "competition". Not putting a gov't non-profit option that has the deck stacked in their favor.
Now to correct you on a few things. Auto Insurance, mortgage, motorcycle insurance's are all options. If you don't buy the product, you don't need to buy insurance. The current HC bills actually fine you if you decide not to buy health insurance. No one fines you for auto insurance if you don't have a car!
If you really wanted to make insurance affordable first off only have insurance for catastrophic issues(not every doctor's visit) Second drop the federal law that mandates insurance companies can't go across state lines. Third tort reform. These 3 thing will drop the price of insurance, while not costing the taxpayer one cent. If it doesn't work, then try public options. However if public option doesn't work, we're stuck with it. They'll do what they always do throw more money at it, instead of overhauling/eliminating it.

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