Retribution vs. restoration

Full story: Chicago Tribune

I sat next to former Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens at a Washington dinner years ago and found him unpleasant in a raspy, cartoonish way, but I was happy to see his conviction thrown out.
Comments
21 - 39 of 39 Comments Last updated May 1, 2009
First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Jefferson

La Grange, IL

#22 Apr 30, 2009
So I guess Nuermberg should never have happended? Let's tell the Jewish community to stop hunting down Nazis. Let's tell them to just move on and let it go.

Yes, it is politically uncomfortable.
But something of substance needs to be done. Otherwise, we are setting a dangerous precident that says, "go ahead and do what you want, break the law. Nothing bad will happen to you"

But....Something bad happens to our country.
David

Show Low, AZ

#23 Apr 30, 2009
Jefferson wrote:
So I guess Nuermberg should never have happended? Let's tell the Jewish community to stop hunting down Nazis. Let's tell them to just move on and let it go.
Yes, it is politically uncomfortable.
But something of substance needs to be done. Otherwise, we are setting a dangerous precident that says, "go ahead and do what you want, break the law. Nothing bad will happen to you"
But....Something bad happens to our country.
So in your mind, making a few terrorists uncomfortable is the same as genocide? This is why the country needs to move on. People like you are way over the top and do not want justice, you want revenge.
Scott Free

Bensenville, IL

#24 Apr 30, 2009
If Mr. Keillor reads these comments (and I suspect he doesn't), maybe he'll learn the important lesson that there ain't nothing in the middle of the road but a yellow line and dead armadillos. He reminds me of Homer Simpson telling his kids, "You're both right!" when they're taking totally opposite positions. Sorry, but there isn't any "You're both right!" position possible here. Either the stuff the government did was legal and justified, in which case Cheney and Bush ought to be demanding criminal proceedings to vindicate their position, or what they did was illegal and unjustified, in which case the nation ought to be demanding that the criminals be brought to justice. There ain't no middle ground here--only one side (at most) can be right, and the other needs to be told in the most certain terms that it's wrong.
Jefferson

La Grange, IL

#25 Apr 30, 2009
David wrote:
<quoted text>
So in your mind, making a few terrorists uncomfortable is the same as genocide? This is why the country needs to move on. People like you are way over the top and do not want justice, you want revenge.
I really don't want revenge in this case, I realize how horrible it would be for our country to go all out on prosecuting this issue.

My initial feeling is to let it go, to move on, because it would be easier and we have a lot of issues now. But I just cannot have memory loss when it comes to the history of this country and what it stands for and how it relates to the future of our country. I know that I'm in the minority on this issue. I just love America so much and I think America is unique and I want it to continue to be a shining beacon.
Den C

Chicago, IL

#26 Apr 30, 2009
Alz wrote:
Keillor is of the group of liberals who complained after 9/11 that Bush "didn't connect the dots". Then, when he did things to make sure we do connect dots - including things well known by Democrats - they go after Bush.
Here is where Pelosi knew of water boarding in 2002:
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/repost-pel...
"In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk."
"Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said."
"'The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,' said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange…"
"[L]ong before 'waterboarding' entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge."
It's no wonder than many people have contempt for these types of liberals.
Spot on! Keilor is a talentless goof who wouldn't have a job except one subsidized by the G on the public dime. He's right about moving on but wrong on the interrogation tactics (Liberal translation - torture). As Maobama mistakenly said we should follow the Brits. I agree. We can hold and interrogate prisoners for a year with no lawyer. Ask the IRA how they liked their stint in interrogation.
dan

Carpentersville, IL

#27 Apr 30, 2009
I actually agree with Keiler. I think hell just froze over
David

Show Low, AZ

#28 Apr 30, 2009
Jefferson wrote:
<quoted text>
I really don't want revenge in this case, I realize how horrible it would be for our country to go all out on prosecuting this issue.
My initial feeling is to let it go, to move on, because it would be easier and we have a lot of issues now. But I just cannot have memory loss when it comes to the history of this country and what it stands for and how it relates to the future of our country. I know that I'm in the minority on this issue. I just love America so much and I think America is unique and I want it to continue to be a shining beacon.
People who love their country will let it go. It would become nothing but a witch hunt and drag on for years. If there were clear cut illegal things done, then it might be worthwhile persuing it. But it is nothing more than politics. Just because the President thinks all of these "enhanced interrogation" techniques are "torture" does not make them torture by the legal definition. I believe that the previous administration did what they did out of their desire to protect the country. I don't believe they are a bunch of sadists that enjoy mistreating people.

FDR locked up Americans of Asian descent during WWII becasue he questioned their loyalty to America. Talk about a clear cut violation of someone's constitutional rights. According to the standards of today, he should have been tried and put away. But taken in the context of the fear at the time, people gave him a pass.
Rocky

Chicago, IL

#29 Apr 30, 2009
Letting torture go without anyone being held responsible has nothing at all to do with loving ones country. Government officials are not synonymous with the United States of America. I love America because America is a nation of laws where everyone is equal under the law. But if no one is held accountable for blatantly illegal actions then this is no longer the case. Furthermore, I have no doubt that those who want to let Bush etc. get away with this would be among the first to want Obama locked up if he participated in similarly illegal activities. Loving your country means standing up for it's laws and for justice, not protecting the powerful from the consequences of their actions.
Jefferson

La Grange, IL

#31 Apr 30, 2009
David wrote:
<quoted text>
People who love their country will let it go. It would become nothing but a witch hunt and drag on for years. If there were clear cut illegal things done, then it might be worthwhile persuing it. But it is nothing more than politics. Just because the President thinks all of these "enhanced interrogation" techniques are "torture" does not make them torture by the legal definition. I believe that the previous administration did what they did out of their desire to protect the country. I don't believe they are a bunch of sadists that enjoy mistreating people.
FDR locked up Americans of Asian descent during WWII becasue he questioned their loyalty to America. Talk about a clear cut violation of someone's constitutional rights. According to the standards of today, he should have been tried and put away. But taken in the context of the fear at the time, people gave him a pass.
Torture is against the law, there is no question. It is illegal. The issue should not be political, but I realize that is a danger here.

I hope you are not assuming that I give FDR a break regarding the Japanese Internment. That was horrible and yes, there should have been something done about it before the recent acknowledgement and retribution.

You know, I'm not saying it's easy or nice and I don't think the previous administration were a bunch of sadists.

If it makes you feel secure to call me names and make assumptions, well then it's obvious that complex thought is not your forte.

P.S. I will never question one's love for America, I wish you wouldn't quesion mine.
David

Show Low, AZ

#32 Apr 30, 2009
Jefferson wrote:
<quoted text>
Torture is against the law, there is no question. It is illegal. The issue should not be political, but I realize that is a danger here.
I hope you are not assuming that I give FDR a break regarding the Japanese Internment. That was horrible and yes, there should have been something done about it before the recent acknowledgement and retribution.
You know, I'm not saying it's easy or nice and I don't think the previous administration were a bunch of sadists.
If it makes you feel secure to call me names and make assumptions, well then it's obvious that complex thought is not your forte.
P.S. I will never question one's love for America, I wish you wouldn't quesion mine.
You will not question my love for country but you will insult my intelligence and accuse me of namecalling?

This discussion is not worth continuing. Best wishes.
Jomama

Tacoma, WA

#33 Apr 30, 2009
"Everyone is equal under the law."

Riiight. So court cases involving a low income party against a large corporation are even right? Money = better attorneys, and more resources--there is no avoiding that. It is a fact that the law is not equal and does not view everyone the same. Stratification exists, and it is something that is accepted in our legal system.

Our legal system has positives and negatives. Don't be delusional by thinking it is equal.
Liberal and Proud

Rancho Palos Verdes, CA

#34 Apr 30, 2009
Chicago Tax Payer wrote:
<quoted text>
You also just made the case for going after Jack Murtha.
The Dems are very selective on which crimes they deem worthy of prosecution.
Murtha is the face of federal waste, and if we let him go, you're right, it'll propagate more of the same.
Justice would dictate that we carry on the torture investigations; however, those crying for the trials need to be wary that they'll get caught up in the mess, as well.
Dems may bark for "truth commissions" long enough to get the far-left support; but, they'll pull back as soon as the truth of their involvement starts to leak out.
There'd be no stronger rally cry to re-energize the GOP than to have the Dems hold hearings which exposes their complicity in this matter.
Pelosi's "most ethical Congress ever" can't take the sunshine.
The real question is how long will it take the far left to realize that they're being played by their supposed allies who are just as criminal as their enemies?
Probably just as long as it will take for the far right to realize that they're being played by their supposed allies whoare just as criminal as their enemies.
Liberal and Proud

Rancho Palos Verdes, CA

#35 Apr 30, 2009
I'm waiting for someone to have enough guts to open the files on the "secret" meetings Chaney had with Ken Lay. Now that would be something.
John Pearson

United States

#36 Apr 30, 2009
I've never understood why we can't uphold the rule of law and rebuild our schools and roads. Eric Holder isn't going to build schools; his job is to enforce the law. The Republicans as they stand now won't support Obama on anything whether or not their are investigations into torture.
And which of us will look into the eyes of family members of those innocents on whom we used harsh technichs and say, "Yes, the law was broken, but we want to move forward, so we're going to hold no one accountable. You're cool with that, right?"

“Death to humans!”

Since: Jul 08

A long way from here...

#37 Apr 30, 2009
dan wrote:
I actually agree with Keiler. I think hell just froze over
I thought the same thing when I read this.
Bonny

Glen Ellyn, IL

#38 Apr 30, 2009
clyde wrote:
Some years ago, William Manchester wrote a book on WW2 and the men that fought it. He noted what they did was often not thought of as "civilized" in the world, but it was war. One example: a squad of Germans was captured in North Africa and asked where particular high-velocity artillery was located, in order to prevent destruction of a soon-to-be-arriving division of American tanks. The first German refused to answer the question. The American lieutenant in charge took out his pistol and shot him in the head, killing him on the spot. The next German prisoner in line answered his question. Was that nice? No, the man said, but it had to be done to save thousands, and in that instance the German's life meant nothing to him. He said his wife would never believe he could do something like that, but it was war.
We are at war with Islamic fanatics too, and the sooner people realize it the better, unless we need ANOTHER 9/11 to place the message in stone. Being "nice" to captives has no place in the Islamic world (beheadings?), thus is has no place in ours.
YOU ARE SO RIGHT!
So sorry

Carpentersville, IL

#39 Apr 30, 2009
I wonder if any of our American soldiers that were captured in Iraq and later killed were tortured?

The terrorists are smarter than us. They just kill anyone they capture so they won't have to be accussed of torturing them.

And 3000 innocent victims on 9/11, lets just forget how they got treated by terrorists.

I agree with a writer who wrote, lets just treat them the same way they treated us. Don't torture them, kill them instead.
loug

Fort Wayne, IN

#40 Apr 30, 2009
I just heard Condi Rice echo the same opinion. You almost sound like a moderate Mr. Keilor.

“Death to humans!”

Since: Jul 08

A long way from here...

#43 May 1, 2009
loug wrote:
I just heard Condi Rice echo the same opinion. You almost sound like a moderate Mr. Keilor.
Don't hell him that - you'll give the poor man a complex!

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Ted Stevens Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Conspiracy Theory Target HAARP May Be Shut Down Aug 29 Believer 2
U.S. Postal Service losing tens of millions ann... Jul '14 Grow Conservatism 16
HAARP project winding down: Was it all a huge c... May '14 not Angels harps 1
Secret Weapon? Conspiracy Theories Abound as US... May '14 not Angels harps 1
Justice Dept. prosecutor commits suicide while ... (Sep '10) Apr '14 yes - Im HAPPY NO... 24
Toxic exposure in asbestos case (May '09) Apr '14 mike crill 32
How the Senate became the House, in 4 steps (Nov '13) Feb '14 Cat74 90
•••
Enter and win $5000
•••

Ted Stevens People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••