Retribution vs. restoration

Retribution vs. restoration

There are 39 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Apr 29, 2009, titled Retribution vs. restoration. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

I sat next to former Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens at a Washington dinner years ago and found him unpleasant in a raspy, cartoonish way, but I was happy to see his conviction thrown out.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

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Greenhornet

Logansport, IN

#1 Apr 29, 2009
Amen to what is stated here. We do need to move on.

Alz

Since: Oct 08

Chicago

#2 Apr 29, 2009
Keillor is of the group of liberals who complained after 9/11 that Bush "didn't connect the dots". Then, when he did things to make sure we do connect dots - including things well known by Democrats - they go after Bush.

Here is where Pelosi knew of water boarding in 2002:
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/repost-pel...

"In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk."

"Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said."

"'The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,' said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange…"

"[L]ong before 'waterboarding' entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge."

It's no wonder than many people have contempt for these types of liberals.
Hopkins in Macomb

Macomb, IL

#3 Apr 29, 2009
Move on? Those acts were against the law. Ignoring lawbreaking will embolden the next gang in power to do worse, knowing that their pals will howl for them to be pardoned. No. Prosecute fully.
Proud W Supporter

Clinton, IA

#4 Apr 29, 2009
Interesting way to start of a story off with a piece of total BS. Stevens lost his election because of an over zealous prosecutor possibly committed crimes while trying to convict him of crimes he wasn't guilty of. How big of Garrison to 'allow' him to go back to fishing.
Secondly, are democrats dumb or are they lying? I know, I know, it could be both. W fully briefed ranking members of congress on interrogation tactics. If democrats want to run and say they didn’t know that these tactics that were described to them would be used against a few (what 3 or 4 people) terrorists, fine, then they are dumb. Or maybe, just maybe they are lying. No, no IMPOSSIBLE, a democrat that lies. I swear on Bill Clinton/Joe (the Plagiarizer) Biden's integrity that this is just not possible.
Finally, I am sorry to all the conservatives that I took the time go comment on this column, because it gives the impression that he is more important than he is. But as stated brilliantly by Andrew Brietbart, Liberal Lies must be confronted where ever they exist. I know, I know, Liberal Lies, why not just say something like ‘aqua blue’ or ‘red red’.
Hey Garrison, did Bill Clinton ever do anything ‘mean’ to terrorists? Oh that’s right he signed the executive order allowing ‘Rendition’. Let me know when the big O has apologized to enough countries and bowed before enough kings that I can again be proud of my country again. FYI, the big O in the previous sentence is Obama not Oprah.
God bless George W. Bush!
Yankee Boy

United States

#5 Apr 29, 2009
Alz wrote:
Keillor is of the group of liberals who complained after 9/11 that Bush "didn't connect the dots". Then, when he did things to make sure we do connect dots - including things well known by Democrats - they go after Bush.
Here is where Pelosi knew of water boarding in 2002:
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/repost-pel...
"In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk."
"Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said."
"'The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,' said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange…"
"[L]ong before 'waterboarding' entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge."
It's no wonder than many people have contempt for these types of liberals.
Why must we continue on with this endless, pseudo-intellectual prattle about our leader's use of waterboarding? It's long been called torture, including by ourselves back to WW II. We did it. It was wrong by OUR OWN measure. We can not undo what we have done. Why can't we just admit it and move on?

(Frankly, if you have to waterboard some goof nearly 200 times to get anything out of him, it can't be considered very effective on it's face.)

Anyway, they did it, let it go and move on, IMHO. We can forgive (for lack of a better phrase) without forgetting.
crobb

Delray Beach, FL

#6 Apr 30, 2009
The liberals talk of bringing all this into the light when their real interest is vengeance. They want to "get" an administration they despised. So they release only information that suits their purpose. Let's not muddy the waters by releasing any details that prove that waterboarding got results and saved lives. The hypocrisy is as astounding as the memory lapses by dems who were briefed on these tactics.
thingy

Terre Haute, IN

#7 Apr 30, 2009
Although I agree, we need to move on. I still feel disappointed that the evil one and his puppet walk away.
Karma.
DAG

Naperville, IL

#8 Apr 30, 2009
"The free play of sadism on the helpless in the name of national service is not to be ignored."
Helpless souls? I think not.
You are right to point out the atmosphere of the time. Liberals, even old museum-quality northern ones, have short memories when it comes to protecting their security. Further, every other flavor of liberal was heartily on the Bush bandwagon back in 2001-2003 when the resolutions were passed through Congress. Sadly, too many Dems were paper tigers, wanting the US to take the most drastic measures against the terrorists, provided we do nothing. They sought "plausible" deniability should the wars go badly (which they tried with all their might to make happen) while having their signatures affixed to the resolutions should the wars go swimmingly -- which they did in spite of the Left.
Now that the political winds have shifted to unreality of the Eutopian Left, terrorists who are no less dangerous today than they were six years ago, are coddled as "helpless souls". We can now chortle with Chavez, engage Ahmadinajad, embrace Castro, and enable North Korea while insulting Great Britain, bow to Saudi Arabia, and leave eastern Europe exposed and unprotected to Russian hegemony.
And that's just what's happened beyond our borders...
Let us celebrate the first 100 days of the Obama Presidency and the waning of free world the cost the US so much in blood and treasure.
Chicago Tax Payer

Mishawaka, IN

#10 Apr 30, 2009
Hopkins in Macomb wrote:
Move on? Those acts were against the law. Ignoring lawbreaking will embolden the next gang in power to do worse, knowing that their pals will howl for them to be pardoned. No. Prosecute fully.
You also just made the case for going after Jack Murtha.

The Dems are very selective on which crimes they deem worthy of prosecution.

Murtha is the face of federal waste, and if we let him go, you're right, it'll propagate more of the same.

Justice would dictate that we carry on the torture investigations; however, those crying for the trials need to be wary that they'll get caught up in the mess, as well.

Dems may bark for "truth commissions" long enough to get the far-left support; but, they'll pull back as soon as the truth of their involvement starts to leak out.

There'd be no stronger rally cry to re-energize the GOP than to have the Dems hold hearings which exposes their complicity in this matter.

Pelosi's "most ethical Congress ever" can't take the sunshine.

The real question is how long will it take the far left to realize that they're being played by their supposed allies who are just as criminal as their enemies?
irresponsible

United States

#11 Apr 30, 2009
Hell hath no fury than a liberal Democrat scorned.

PMB

Paso Robles, CA

#12 Apr 30, 2009
Yes, lets not enforce the laws of the land when our elites break them. Jails are only for the little people.
WWIIbaby

Tyrone, PA

#13 Apr 30, 2009
Well...interesting that some of the above midwesterners cannot recognize the sound, practical advice of Prairie Home Companion's Keillor. I think he hit the mark with this editorial.

I am as angry and disappointed as any citizen by the flagrant disregard for human rights exhibited by those who took liberties with the "danger" excuse. Even so, I think the folks who DID the torture WERE operating under orders and had no say in what those in power sent down the pike.

Bush lied; Cheney lied. We all know it and it is time to MOVE ON to get the business of the people done.

We won't forget; we won't forgive; we WILL live our lives and try not to repeat the same mistakes, while trying our best to remain human.

MOVE ON!!
Allan

Oak Brook, IL

#14 Apr 30, 2009
By that logic, why punish anyone for a criminal act? After all, it's only retribution.
suzyq

Benton Harbor, MI

#15 Apr 30, 2009
I'd like to interject another opinion of these political maneuverings, one that I find expressed more and more by voters I talk to. I'm sick to death of all the political fighting and back stabbing that begins the minute the presidential election is won and continues for the entire administration. I don't see where the liberals or conservatives are any more or less guilty of this. Instead of trying to govern the country and figure out how to best serve the people, they spend the entire time in making accusations, wanting special investigators and hearings. STOP. The country is going to h*** in a handbag and arguing about whose fault it is (when it is everyone's fault) isn't going to bring about any solutions. The mind set that we are going to make the vanquished party pay is juvenile and suited for a playground, not for the men and women who are entrusted with running the government.
Rocky

Chicago, IL

#16 Apr 30, 2009
So does Mr. Keillor support forgiveness of crimes committed by all people, or only for the rich and well connected? Why should people who commit war crimes be allowed to "move on" while millions who committed non-violent and victimless crimes rot away in prison? Doesn't make any sense in any context other than one in which there is a two-tiered legal system, one for the well connected and one for everyone else. I thought that this was a nation of laws, but apparently that's only true if you're not in government.
Jeff

Miami, FL

#17 Apr 30, 2009
I'd be willing to move on, but why not have an investigational committee set up in Congress much like the one in South Africa in which apartheid injustices were revealed? Then, even if no one is penalized for committing such atrocities as waterboarding, we would all get an education in interrogatory tactics to be avoided at all costs in the future.

“Death to humans!”

Since: Jul 08

A long way from here...

#18 Apr 30, 2009
Wow - a Keillor column I actually enjoyed.

But when you get to addressing the issues in the last couple of paragraphs, please don't use Federal authority or dollars to do so - keep it Constitutional.
diane

Osceola, MO

#19 Apr 30, 2009
Let's face it...like Dr. House always remarks on "House"..."Ever yone lies!"

I just don't believe anyone in the news, the govt. the press...

Sad, isn't it...guilty until proven innocent. I'm glad my kids are grown...what a messed up world.
clyde

Muskegon, MI

#20 Apr 30, 2009
Some years ago, William Manchester wrote a book on WW2 and the men that fought it. He noted what they did was often not thought of as "civilized" in the world, but it was war. One example: a squad of Germans was captured in North Africa and asked where particular high-velocity artillery was located, in order to prevent destruction of a soon-to-be-arriving division of American tanks. The first German refused to answer the question. The American lieutenant in charge took out his pistol and shot him in the head, killing him on the spot. The next German prisoner in line answered his question. Was that nice? No, the man said, but it had to be done to save thousands, and in that instance the German's life meant nothing to him. He said his wife would never believe he could do something like that, but it was war.
We are at war with Islamic fanatics too, and the sooner people realize it the better, unless we need ANOTHER 9/11 to place the message in stone. Being "nice" to captives has no place in the Islamic world (beheadings?), thus is has no place in ours.
David

Safford, AZ

#21 Apr 30, 2009
"What's needed is a fair and thorough congressional investigation". The congress is a political animal. Doesn't matter which party is the majority, you are not going to get such a thing.

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