Pay attention to the process

Pay attention to the process

There are 26 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Feb 22, 2011, titled Pay attention to the process. In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

Some people are berating Democrats for blocking passage of the Wisconsin governor's plan to end collective bargaining for some public employees.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TwinCities.com.

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Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#1 Feb 23, 2011
Jerome, you're wrong. The cry is not "don't tax the high-income people". The cry is don't tax the high-income people excessively high. When you tax businesses, they just raise the price on their products and services, which affects everybody, even those who can least afford it. So not taxing businesses, on the other hand, is a good idea.

Getting back to the high income earners -- yes, they will move out of state. State taxes have to remain competitive with other states. Why do you think states like Florida, Texas, South Dakota, are growing in population while Minnesota is losing its population? Those are no-income tax states. Do you recall a few months ago, there was a certain amount of hand-wringing going on because the political machines were worried that Minnesota might loose a congressional seat? All because population is shifting away from Minnesota.
Really

Minneapolis, MN

#2 Feb 23, 2011
Betty DeBace = FREELOADER.
Really

Minneapolis, MN

#3 Feb 23, 2011
LaVonne McCombie - you're ignorant. Our forefathers did not fight and die for selfish collective bargaining rights. Clearly you were educated by a union member.
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#4 Feb 23, 2011
The purpose of public worker unions is to raise your taxes and give them to Democrats who will do exactly that.
gzaiger

Minneapolis, MN

#5 Feb 23, 2011
And the purpose of Republicans is to keep the wealthy fat and happy while the regular folks can't make a decent wage.

It makes no sense to me how republicans can say they hate Big Government, and yet somehow support the huge power grab going on in Wisconsin. Yup, suddenly the average worker is the bad guy, and big government rocks.

And don't say this is about the budget. The Unions agreed to ALL pay and benefit cuts requested. And only those unions that didn't support the governor are at risk. ALL the Unions that supported Walker are exepmt!!!!! This is corruption at its worst, and a diminishment of freedom for the people. Once its gone, we'll have to fight like our great grandfathers did to get rights back.
gzaiger

Minneapolis, MN

#6 Feb 23, 2011
Really wrote:
LaVonne McCombie - you're ignorant. Our forefathers did not fight and die for selfish collective bargaining rights. Clearly you were educated by a union member.
Yes, they did. I am not a Union member, never have been. But I know my history. In the early 1900's in the steel mills of Pennsylvania, men were working 7 days a week, under dangerous and horrible conditions, and yet could not earn enough to feed their children. When they went on strike against the owner, Andrew Carnegie, he brought in the Pinkerton Security forces to actually force the workers out of the mill. 9 men died. The union was busted, and it would be decades before the mills got unions, and thus, got decent wages and decent working conditions. And this is just ONE story of hundreds.

Every single worker in the US owes their clean, safe workplace and fair wage to the unions. Yes, much of this is now codified in law. But as Wisconsin demonstrates, the idea that workers have rights is tenuous. The laws can be scaled back at any time, and seems likely given the current thoughts that gaining massive wealth on the backs of the people is the only thing that matters.

The Second Amendment was written so that an armed citizenry could defend themselves in the event of a corrpupt government. And Unions are needed in the event of greed and the re-introduction of virtual slavery. Unions fight for fair wages, thus ensuring ALL OF US a good wage, as companies have to compete. Corporations left to themselves demostrated 100 years ago that they will starve people, leave the homeless and whatever else they can get away with. No way. I hope the unions fight, and fight, and fight. They are all that keeps the Middle Class alive.
Really

Minneapolis, MN

#7 Feb 23, 2011
There is a huge difference between tough steelworkers working seven days a week and feminized teachers who work 9-10 months a year and make REALLY GOOD MONEY who are whining and complaining that they have to put a few more % points into their health insurance. Those of us in the private sector (not sure if you are or aren't) need to actually produce a product or service in order to make ourselves worth something, thus getting paid for what we do. The sense of entitlement in these public workers is the sick reason we're dealing with much of our budget issues today.
America is adrift

Fargo, ND

#8 Feb 23, 2011
Really wrote:
There is a huge difference between tough steelworkers working seven days a week and feminized teachers who work 9-10 months a year and make REALLY GOOD MONEY who are whining and complaining that they have to put a few more % points into their health insurance. Those of us in the private sector (not sure if you are or aren't) need to actually produce a product or service in order to make ourselves worth something, thus getting paid for what we do. The sense of entitlement in these public workers is the sick reason we're dealing with much of our budget issues today.
Actually, there isn't a big difference. Just like the steelworkers had to strike to improve their wages and working conditions, if you actually researched the history of teacher's unions, you would know that they had to do that too. In fact, teachers today make good money because they had to strike several times in the 70s and 80s to get that good money. Let's also keep in mind that THEY DON'T GET PAID DURING THE SUMMER TIME unless they teach summer school or (as many teachers often do) work a seasonal job.

Now, just because you CHOSE to work in the public sector doesn't mean the rest of the working world has to work under the same situations you do. Nobody forced you to take a private sector job. You made that decision. At any time in your miserable, pathetic, wimpy life you could have gone to school to become a teacher (Como High School), a nurse at the County Hospital(HCMC), a snowplow driver (13 inches Sunday), a prison guard (Stillwater, Sandstone), a police man (St Paul PD), an economist (MN Department of Economic Development), a zookeeper (Como or Minnesota Zoo), or any of a 100 jobs that are government jobs. YOU MADE THE CHOICE.

If you're that upset about it, CHANGE CAREERS.
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#9 Feb 23, 2011
gzaiger wrote:
And the purpose of Republicans is to keep the wealthy fat and happy while the regular folks can't make a decent wage.
It makes no sense to me how republicans can say they hate Big Government, and yet somehow support the huge power grab going on in Wisconsin. Yup, suddenly the average worker is the bad guy, and big government rocks.
And don't say this is about the budget. The Unions agreed to ALL pay and benefit cuts requested. And only those unions that didn't support the governor are at risk. ALL the Unions that supported Walker are exepmt!!!!! This is corruption at its worst, and a diminishment of freedom for the people. Once its gone, we'll have to fight like our great grandfathers did to get rights back.
You're absolutely right, gzaiger, Wisconsin is rolling in wealth, just like Andrew Carnegie, and this stand-off has nothing to do with money. It's all about busting the union. Give me a break.
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#10 Feb 23, 2011
gzaiger wrote:
ALL the Unions that supported Walker are exepmt!!!!! This is corruption at its worst, and a diminishment of freedom for the people.
Kind of reminds you of all the exemptions to Obamacare that Barry gave out to all his favorite donors, doesn't it?
gzaiger

Minneapolis, MN

#11 Feb 23, 2011
Gndydncr wrote:
<quoted text>You're absolutely right, gzaiger, Wisconsin is rolling in wealth, just like Andrew Carnegie, and this stand-off has nothing to do with money. It's all about busting the union. Give me a break.
It IS about busting the Unions! They already agreed to ALLLLLLL the pay cuts and benefits changes. Hello? What else is there? The very life blood of the Union. Oh, and not all unions. Nope. Just he ones that didn't support him. It is not, in any way, about the budget.
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#12 Feb 23, 2011
gzaiger wrote:
Once its gone, we'll have to fight like our great grandfathers did to get rights back.
Either that or buy another election or two and once all the Democrats back in office again, they can accomplish it with the stroke of a pen and then the bleeding can start all over again.
Really

Minneapolis, MN

#13 Feb 23, 2011
I can't even argue against the entitlement mentality. It's so backwards that that logic just doesn't compute.
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#14 Feb 23, 2011
gzaiger wrote:
<quoted text>
It IS about busting the Unions! They already agreed to ALLLLLLL the pay cuts and benefits changes. Hello? What else is there? The very life blood of the Union. Oh, and not all unions. Nope. Just he ones that didn't support him. It is not, in any way, about the budget.
From what I understand, that is what Governor Walker campaigned on and that is what the people elected him for. Let it happen. You lost. Get over it.
Gndydncr

Rochester, MN

#15 Feb 23, 2011
gzaiger wrote:
<quoted text>
It IS about busting the Unions! They already agreed to ALLLLLLL the pay cuts and benefits changes. Hello? What else is there? The very life blood of the Union. Oh, and not all unions. Nope. Just he ones that didn't support him. It is not, in any way, about the budget.
You do understand don't you, that where public unions are concerned, YOU (the taxpayer) are the big bad filthy rich greedy money grubbing opponent in union negotiations. YOU are wearing the union target. YOU are who they are striking against. YOU are the loser when the union is the winner. YOU are the one who is paying for their golden parachute health and pension plans.
Tired of it all

AOL

#16 Feb 23, 2011
Let's also keep in mind that THEY DON'T GET PAID DURING THE SUMMER TIME unless they teach summer school or (as many teachers often do) work a seasonal job

Then, obviously, they are getting paid too much for the 9 months of work!!!
wjh

Saint Paul, MN

#17 Feb 23, 2011
gzaiger wrote:
And the purpose of Republicans is to keep the wealthy fat and happy while the regular folks can't make a decent wage.
It makes no sense to me how republicans can say they hate Big Government, and yet somehow support the huge power grab going on in Wisconsin. Yup, suddenly the average worker is the bad guy, and big government rocks.
And don't say this is about the budget. The Unions agreed to ALL pay and benefit cuts requested. And only those unions that didn't support the governor are at risk. ALL the Unions that supported Walker are exepmt!!!!! This is corruption at its worst, and a diminishment of freedom for the people. Once its gone, we'll have to fight like our great grandfathers did to get rights back.
Oh please, you're free to open any business you like and make a million dollars. Easy to say, a lot harder to do.

The Unions DO NOT speak for me!

Who speaks for the tax payer? That affects my bottom line.

And all the Teachers unions that supported Obama get a waiver from the very health care bill they forced on everyone else! Talk about corruption!

Hypocrites!
wjh

Saint Paul, MN

#18 Feb 23, 2011
Gndydncr wrote:
Jerome, you're wrong. The cry is not "don't tax the high-income people". The cry is don't tax the high-income people excessively high. When you tax businesses, they just raise the price on their products and services, which affects everybody, even those who can least afford it. So not taxing businesses, on the other hand, is a good idea.
Getting back to the high income earners -- yes, they will move out of state. State taxes have to remain competitive with other states. Why do you think states like Florida, Texas, South Dakota, are growing in population while Minnesota is losing its population? Those are no-income tax states. Do you recall a few months ago, there was a certain amount of hand-wringing going on because the political machines were worried that Minnesota might loose a congressional seat? All because population is shifting away from Minnesota.
Of course when you tax business, we just add that to the cost of doing business and raise our prices. We work on margins to stay profitable.

The far left thinks that if you just raise taxes, the owners of these companies will open their wallet and pay. Wrong! It's the consumer who ultimately pay the increased taxes.
wjh

Saint Paul, MN

#19 Feb 23, 2011
What really amazes me about all the protest is how many people's jobs don't seem that busy.

If I miss a single day at work, it takes me days to catch back up.
wjh

Saint Paul, MN

#20 Feb 23, 2011
I got a better idea Jerome Richgels, why don't we tax the people who make over $100,000 the same as people who make less then $100,000.

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