House passes 20-week abortion ban

House passes 20-week abortion ban

There are 426 comments on the Feministing story from Jun 19, 2013, titled House passes 20-week abortion ban. In it, Feministing reports that:

Yesterday evening the House of Representatives passed the "Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act," a ban on legal abortions 20 weeks or more after fertilization based on dubious evidence that fetuses can feel pain during the second trimester.

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Dan

Omaha, NE

#43 Jul 3, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, pretty big operation just like the RCC. Yet I do not know nor have ever known one single person to benefit from catholic charities.
I do know I have been asked to donate my labor through one workplace for a day at catholic charities and the answer was one BIG "NO".
Good for you.

That means you and people you know aren't in need.

Congrats also on not working to help others in need.
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#45 Jul 7, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Your use of a non-sequitur is your decision to make. It's not in service to your premise (that being that pro-life groups don't care about born persons), but if you want to simply say "I don't have an argument here", just say that. It's neater and doesn't entail you invoking the "Godwin's Law" of discussions of Catholic matters.
The Catholic Church has indeed protected pedophiles, as well as had its hand in other awful things. I wouldn't trust anyone to its care, though I don't judge people who do. People are just that desperate.
Dan

Atlanta, GA

#46 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
The Catholic Church has indeed protected pedophiles, as well as had its hand in other awful things. I wouldn't trust anyone to its care, though I don't judge people who do. People are just that desperate.
Good for you.

Speaking of "desperate", how again did we get to a point where you telling us your opinion of the Church was "on topic"?
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#47 Jul 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Good for you.
Speaking of "desperate", how again did we get to a point where you telling us your opinion of the Church was "on topic"?
Okay. When is abortion unethical to you and why should your ethics play a role in whether or not a woman has an abortion?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#48 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay. When is abortion unethical to you and why should your ethics play a role in whether or not a woman has an abortion?
When it's used as emergency contraception, which is the great majority of occurrences.

Other people's ethics govern me all the time. They control if and where I can gamble, smoke, drink, own a slave-all kinds of things.
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#49 Jul 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
When it's used as emergency contraception, which is the great majority of occurrences.
Other people's ethics govern me all the time. They control if and where I can gamble, smoke, drink, own a slave-all kinds of things.
That's not true. The vast majority of women have abortions because they don't feel they have the money to take care of child, which is a totally valid and ethical reason.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#50 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not true. The vast majority of women have abortions because they don't feel they have the money to take care of child, which is a totally valid and ethical reason.
.......which are rationales for contraception.
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#51 Jul 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
.......which are rationales for contraception.
No contraception is 100% effective.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#52 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
No contraception is 100% effective.
So, you're agreeing with me that it's most often used as contraception?
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#53 Jul 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
.......which are rationales for contraception.
Why shouldn't abortion be used as a last resort, when everything else fails?
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#54 Jul 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you're agreeing with me that it's most often used as contraception?
Abortion and contraception are not the same thing. One deals with when the egg is on the uteral wall, and the other prevents it.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#55 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
Why shouldn't abortion be used as a last resort, when everything else fails?
IMO, it shouldn't be used as the situation now extends to others outside of you. Another human life is now involved.

Contraception is ubiquitous, and the financial issues of having and raising children don't suddenly materialize AFTER you're pregnant.
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#56 Jul 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
IMO, it shouldn't be used as the situation now extends to others outside of you. Another human life is now involved.
Contraception is ubiquitous, and the financial issues of having and raising children don't suddenly materialize AFTER you're pregnant.
So you're saying that a human is formed from the moment of conception? If so, why does its existence automatically rob the mother of even being considered, when it will be her that ends up paying the highest price emotionally, physically, and financially? Also, they don't materialize immediately, but pregnant women are among the most discriminated groups when it comes to employment. That's just the beginning of the financial troubles.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#57 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're saying that a human is formed from the moment of conception? If so, why does its existence automatically rob the mother of even being considered, when it will be her that ends up paying the highest price emotionally, physically, and financially? Also, they don't materialize immediately, but pregnant women are among the most discriminated groups when it comes to employment. That's just the beginning of the financial troubles.
I believe that human life begins at conception. They are "formed" throughout gestation and later after they are born.

"If so, why does its existence automatically rob the mother of even being considered, when it will be her that ends up paying the highest price emotionally, physically, and financially?"

You phrased this question oddly, as if we were discussing consequences borne of a random event such as a lightning strike.

It's existence is attributable to the mother. Thus, the consideration of whether the "price to pay" is too high is entirely within the control of the mother here. She has all the agency upfront.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#58 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
Abortion and contraception are not the same thing. One deals with when the egg is on the uteral wall, and the other prevents it.
.....then it can't be a "last resort" when contraception fails, can it?

If they're different (and they are), then pushing it as a failover for contraception isn't really an argument.
Billy Ringo

United States

#59 Jul 8, 2013
This may come as a shock to the 20-week loons, but just because the House passes a bill does NOT mean it becomes law.

No wonder they have a 14% approval rating.
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#60 Jul 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that human life begins at conception. They are "formed" throughout gestation and later after they are born.
"If so, why does its existence automatically rob the mother of even being considered, when it will be her that ends up paying the highest price emotionally, physically, and financially?"
You phrased this question oddly, as if we were discussing consequences borne of a random event such as a lightning strike.
It's existence is attributable to the mother. Thus, the consideration of whether the "price to pay" is too high is entirely within the control of the mother here. She has all the agency upfront.
Why does it become classified as human, when it doesn't think, perceive, feel, or even hold more cells that the tip of my index finger? It doesn't even have connections, or a past. Also, you agree with me? Women should be allowed to have abortions?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#61 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does it become classified as human, when it doesn't think, perceive, feel, or even hold more cells that the tip of my index finger? It doesn't even have connections, or a past. Also, you agree with me? Women should be allowed to have abortions?
Because it IS human. Human cells, human DNA, etc. It's a developing human. I think you meant to say "person". Maybe not.

If the pregnant mother's life is in imminent peril, yeah. Not her livelihood, her life.

I disagree with it being allowed as a fail-safe for contraception.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#62 Jul 8, 2013
Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does it become classified as human, when it doesn't think, perceive, feel, or even hold more cells that the tip of my index finger? It doesn't even have connections, or a past. Also, you agree with me? Women should be allowed to have abortions?
I mean, even you would concede that abortion kills something, right?

People gestate humans, thus my rationale.
Broseph

New Castle, DE

#63 Jul 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it IS human. Human cells, human DNA, etc. It's a developing human. I think you meant to say "person". Maybe not.
If the pregnant mother's life is in imminent peril, yeah. Not her livelihood, her life.
I disagree with it being allowed as a fail-safe for contraception.
My finger tip packs far more human cells than a zygote. More DNA. Does my fingertip hold more value then that zygote? Also, why shouldn't her livelihood be considered as an option when her livelihood is connected to her life, her well being, and the well being of her loved ones?

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