Unopposed Dem Kaine has Cash Edge Over GOP's Allen - NBC29 WVIR Charlottesville, VA News, Sports ...

Full story: NBC29 Charlottesville

Without a Democratic rival for the Senate nomination, former Gov. Tim Kaine has expanded his fundraising advantage over Republican George Allen, the frontrunner in the four-way June 12 GOP Senate primary.
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voteearlyvoteoft en

Virginia Beach, VA

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#22
Jun 1, 2012
 
heh wrote:
from same article:
the plunging number of gun deaths in other post-industrial nations with reasonable gun-control laws is strong evidence in support of a national policy."
Reasonable in this instance meaning bans........

That is indeed the "aim" is it not?
heh

Charlottesville, VA

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#23
Jun 1, 2012
 
voteearlyvoteoften wrote:
<quoted text>
Reasonable in this instance meaning bans........
That is indeed the "aim" is it not?
I'd like to see no guns in this world, but it ain't gunna happen. I'm in favor of stricter gun control than we have now in this country.

On a side note, Zimmerman's bond has been revoked.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Since: Feb 08

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#24
Jun 1, 2012
 

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Gru wrote:
Figures a crook would have all the cash.
Has Romney confessed?
voteearlyvoteoft en

Lexington Park, MD

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#25
Jun 1, 2012
 
heh wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd like to see no guns in this world, but it ain't gunna happen. I'm in favor of stricter gun control than we have now in this country.
So the NRA isn't being paranoid, the goal IS to eliminate all (legal) guns??

“Happiness comes through giving”

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#26
Jun 1, 2012
 

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County Resident wrote:
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OK, I hate Conservatives. Now we're even. Let's look at the dictionary definition of liberal and conservative:
Liberal:
1. relating to or having social and political views that favour progress and reform
2. relating to or having policies or views advocating individual freedom
3. giving and generous in temperament or behaviour
4. tolerant of other people
5. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
6. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression
Conservative:
1. favouring the preservation of established customs, values, etc, and opposing innovation
2. a person who is reluctant to change or consider new ideas; conformist
I'm a conservative liberal. I favor reform but I like Benny Goodman.

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#27
Jun 1, 2012
 

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voteearlyvoteoften wrote:
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Based on the definitions, I can see why leftists increasingly call themselves Progressives,'cause they sure aren't tolerant of other's who dare have opposing views!
If the opposing views are reactionary views, they should not be tolerated.

“Happiness comes through giving”

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#28
Jun 1, 2012
 
Dems suck wrote:
Why are all these liberals here? Go to your little site and talk your BS there
Nah, we prefer crossing swords with you bigots.
heh

Charlottesville, VA

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#29
Jun 1, 2012
 

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voteearlyvoteoften wrote:
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So the NRA isn't being paranoid, the goal IS to eliminate all (legal) guns??
I guess you could call it a slippery slope if you want to be paranoid about it, but there is data to indicate a correlation between modest gun control laws as passed in other countries (even w/o bans) and lower rates of gun violence.

The NRA's position is sort of like the no tax pledge.
Extreme.
voteearlyvoteoft en

United States

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#30
Jun 1, 2012
 
heh wrote:
<quoted text>
modest gun control laws as passed in other countries
Examples, please!
heh

Charlottesville, VA

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#31
Jun 1, 2012
 

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"Martin Killias, in a 1993 study covering 21 countries, found that there were substantial correlations between gun ownership and gun-related suicide and homicide rates. There was also a substantial though lesser correlation between gun ownership and total homicide rates.[90] "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics
Dude

Bumpass, VA

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#32
Jun 1, 2012
 
heh wrote:
"Martin Killias, in a 1993 study covering 21 countries, found that there were substantial correlations between gun ownership and gun-related suicide and homicide rates. There was also a substantial though lesser correlation between gun ownership and total homicide rates.[90] "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics
Meanwhile, a study released by the Justice Department suggesting background checks at gun shows would do little to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals.

The study noted the number of criminals who obtained guns from retail outlets was dwarfed by the number of those who picked up their arms through means other than legal purchases. The report was the result of interviews with more than 18,000 state and federal inmates conducted nationwide. It found that nearly 80 percent of those interviewed got their guns from friends or family members, or on the street through illegal purchases.

Less than 9 percent were bought at retail outlets and only seven-tenths of 1 percent came from gun shows.

http://www.wnd.com/2004/12/28253/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_...

Police statistics for the year 2006[14] records 34 killings or attempted killings involving firearms, compared to 69 cases involving bladed weapons and 16 cases of unarmed assault. Cases of assault resulting in bodily harm numbered 89 (firearms) and 526 (bladed weapons). As of 2007, Switzerland had a population of about 7,600,000. This would put the rate of killings or attempted killings with firearms at about one for every quarter million residents yearly. This represents a decline of aggravated assaults involving firearms since the early 1990s. The majority of gun crimes involving domestic violence are perpetrated with army ordnance weapons, while the majority of gun crime outside the domestic sphere involves illegally held firearms.[15]
heh

Charlottesville, VA

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#33
Jun 2, 2012
 

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From the same conservative news site 2004 article:
http://www.wnd.com/2004/12/28253/

"“Policy questions related to gun ownership and proposals for gun control touch on some of the most contentious issues in American politics: Should regulations restrict who may possess firearms? Should there be restrictions on the number or types of guns that can be purchased? Should safety locks be required? These and many related policy questions cannot be answered definitively because of large gaps in the existing science base,” said Charles F. Wellford, professor in the department of criminology and criminal justice at the University of Maryland and chairman of the committee that wrote the report.

However, the National Research Council decided even more thorough research on the topic is needed."

http://www.skinnymoose.com/wanderings/2012/01...

"The most recent example of the NRA ‘fighting the good fight’ is manifested in H.R. 2055, the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2012.

The Act was signed into law by President Obama back on Dec 23 and it contains several provisions that strengthen the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding gun owners and prevents the federal government from spending tax dollars on initiatives that would promote an anti-Second Amendment agenda.

To be precise there are three NRA-backed provisions in the 2012 Appropriations Act, they are found in Sec. 218, of the Labor, Health and Human Services, Education (Labor-H) division of the bill, Sec. 503 of the Labor-H division, and Sec. 8017 of the Department of Defense (DOD) division.

SECTION 218

Sec. 218 simply reads,“None of the funds made available in this title may be used, in whole or in part, to advocate or promote gun control.”

The NRA, in a press release, stated that Sec. 218 “prevents the National Institutes of Health (NIH) from using taxpayer dollars to promulgate junk science designed to paint legal gun ownership as a public health hazard.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_...
"To carry firearms in public or outdoors ...a person must have a Waffentragschein (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security."

"Guns may be transported in public as long as an appropriate justification is present. This means to transport a gun in public, the following requirements apply:
The ammunition must be separated from the gun, no ammunition in a magazine.
The transport has to be direct, i.e.:
For courses or exercises hosted by marksmanship, hunting or military organisations,
To an army warehouse and back,
To and from a holder of a valid arms trade permit,
To and from a specific event, i.e. gun shows.[10]"

"As of 2007, Switzerland had a population of about 7,600,000. "
2001 "The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million."

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

" As of 2009, the United States has a population of 307 million people.[5]

* Based on production data from firearm manufacturers,[6] there are roughly 300 million firearms owned by civilians in the United States as of 2010. "
Dude

Bumpass, VA

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#34
Jun 2, 2012
 

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Outside the fact that I will never agree with you on this, I was just pointing out that non-domestic gun crime is by a large margine committed by guns that are obtained illegally.
heh

Charlottesville, VA

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#35
Jun 2, 2012
 

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Dude wrote:
Outside the fact that I will never agree with you on this, I was just pointing out that non-domestic gun crime is by a large margine committed by guns that are obtained illegally.
No doubt, but the more around, the more around are left to obtain illegally.
Dude

New York, NY

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#36
Jun 2, 2012
 
heh wrote:
<quoted text>
No doubt, but the more around, the more around are left to obtain illegally.
Seriously? You're going to let me get away with that?

*margin

Anyhow I hate posting from the tablet... So I'll get to this later
heh

Charlottesville, VA

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#37
Jun 2, 2012
 

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Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Seriously? You're going to let me get away with that?
*margin
Anyhow I hate posting from the tablet... So I'll get to this later
It's statistics.
If in one neighborhood all residents own guns, there is a better chance of one getting stolen than in a neighborhood where there are none to be taken.
Dude

Bumpass, VA

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#38
Jun 2, 2012
 
heh wrote:
<quoted text>
It's statistics.
If in one neighborhood all residents own guns, there is a better chance of one getting stolen than in a neighborhood where there are none to be taken.
If I were an anarcho-pacifist; I'd agree with you, but since I can't follow such naive logic, I won't. By following that logic, if you got rid of cars there would be no more deaths by cars. If you got rid of planes there would be no more terrorist attacks committed with planes. If you got rid of knives, there would be no more stabbings. Is that exaggerated? Sure, but so is your example.

I have three problems with just "getting rid of guns."

The first one is sustenance hunting. I'm not against sustenance hunting, and think that people should have the right to do it. I'm not much on sport hunting, but since you can do both; I think that's fine if you practice what I would call ethical hunting practices. Eventually, because of the lack of hunters, insurance rates will continue to rise of vehicles. Due to the lack of hunters, it won't be long until we're "culling herds" like they do in Wyoming and Montana.
The second one is protection; I put this one in second because of the Amendment. This is actually in two parts, one personal protection, and two in the spirit of the second Amendment. I would agree with you if you said that the spirit of the second doesn't guarantee the right to bear arms for personal protection from others, and that is the duty of the government. I do believe, though; that it is our right to protect our personal property from others in lieu of the government, as it is not the police's job to protect us as individuals, but to protect society at large. We then, must fall back on ourselves for protection. The other part would be protection in the spirit of the second Amendment, and hopefully it will never come to that. History is full of nations whose laws have outlawed guns for civilians, like Libya. It is Thomas Jefferson who said, "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

The third is also in two parts, one is that acts of violence will not cease to exist because you get rid of guns, and while it's true that the leading weapon used in homicide is guns; that does not mean that those that would use guns wouldn't use alternative methods. The second part is connected to the second reason, if you take guns away from law abiding citizens, then the only people that would have guns are criminals and police.
heh

Charlottesville, VA

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#39
Jun 3, 2012
 
If you got rid of disease there would be no more sickness.

I understand the hunting and protection thing and I don't have a solution. Hey, I know it's pie in the sky, but the fact remains less availability means less of them 'out there' for criminal use. My naive trust in our gv't makes the tyranny, 2nd amendment issues in 2012, not so relevant arguments for prevalence.

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