Black Republican: Don't Equate Black ...

Black Republican: Don't Equate Black Rights And Gay Rights

There are 273 comments on the WTLC-AM Indianapolis story from Feb 8, 2012, titled Black Republican: Don't Equate Black Rights And Gay Rights. In it, WTLC-AM Indianapolis reports that:

Former GOP chairman Michael Steele said that gay rights should not be equated with black rights in an exchange with LGBT activist and former Lt.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WTLC-AM Indianapolis.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#21 Feb 9, 2012
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> I'm saying that many, including myself, don't consider same sex marriage on a par with civil rights or the struggle that blacks endure. As you may or may not know, I don't support same sex marriage myself (preferring domestic partnership or civil unions) and don't equate it with civil rights. My guess is that you'll disagree and I'm fine with a healthy disagreement, especially from you since I hope you know the respect I have for you. I don't ask anybody to agree with me, nor will there be any great gnashing of teeth from me if, or more likely when as George Clooney said, it will inevitably pass. When and if it passes, I still won't agree with it, and it will be the law of the land and so be it. I reserve the right to disagree with some laws even while living with them.
Did that clarify or confuse the issue?
It might be helpful if you understand that marriage equality is only one of the remaining civil rights in the struggle for equal rights for gay people that started over a hundred years ago, and emerged in the US in 1924, only to be shut down by the police.

In the recent past, it was illegal simply to be gay, and being found out could result in anything from fines and public exposure leading to being fired, kicked out of your home, or imprisonment for life, and torture with emetics, electric shock, castration, and lobotomies. So part of the gay rights struggle has included the legal right to simply exist. The last laws outlawing simply being gay were not removed until 2003, and had to be removed by the Supreme Court, in Lawrence. Some of those unconstitutional laws remain on the books, and while unenforceable in any court, they are still used to detain and harass gay people.

DADT, which required punishment simply for being authentically gay, was only removed last year, and Santorum and others want to bring it back. Adoption continues to be legally denied in some places, as do protections in employment, housing, and public accommodations guaranteed to others based on choice of religious beliefs.

Hopefully this helps you understand the struggle for marriage equality is just one of the remaining legal hurdles gay people have been fighting to overcome our entire lives. No gay American has yet lived in full legal equality in the land that promises liberty and justice for ALL.

“Love thy neighbor!”

Since: Dec 06

Westland , MI

#22 Feb 9, 2012
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> I'm saying that many, including myself, don't consider same sex marriage on a par with civil rights or the struggle that blacks endure. As you may or may not know, I don't support same sex marriage myself (preferring domestic partnership or civil unions) and don't equate it with civil rights. My guess is that you'll disagree and I'm fine with a healthy disagreement, especially from you since I hope you know the respect I have for you. I don't ask anybody to agree with me, nor will there be any great gnashing of teeth from me if, or more likely when as George Clooney said, it will inevitably pass. When and if it passes, I still won't agree with it, and it will be the law of the land and so be it. I reserve the right to disagree with some laws even while living with them.
Did that clarify or confuse the issue?
Clarified. Thank you. I knew you weren't for gay marriage, what I didn't know is that you didn't believe that we have been denied civil rights in many areas. As well informes as you are, I find this hard to believe. I would like to discuss this with you, but not on these %^&$# boards. I'll try to catch you later...vacation tomorrow!!!!
Santorum On Dawg Sax

Philadelphia, PA

#23 Feb 9, 2012
Gay Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you explain this??? Are you saying some people deserve civil rights and others don't, so don't compare??? I'm confused. I usually agree with you, so I want to make sure I'm not jumping to conclusions.
He is not only a bigot, but a moron who is incapable of seeing how things can be similar and different at the same time.

Of course there's a great deal of overlap between the civil rights struggle and the struggle for glbt rights. That doesn't mean congruent.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#24 Feb 10, 2012
equalityboy81 wrote:
So blacks are the only ones entitled to civil rights or have had civil rights denied them? What about Jews, women, Mexicans, Christians, and gays? They've never had any civil rights struggles? What's up with that man?!
Who said blacks are the only ones to have equal rights?

Blacks marched, were hosed, lynched, jailed and killed fighting for their equal rights. Their struggle was aided by Jews and decent whites. The civil rights they fought for were the right to vote, access to public education and facilities, jobs and housing. These are the things blacks fought for and every race you mentioned benefitted from those struggles and earned the same rights because of the struggle. Let's be clear about what the black civil rights struggle was for. So don't go there.

It is a big mistake to attack blacks with the issue of civil rights vs gay rights. Whites who just happened to be gay enjoyed always enjoyed civil rights by default. They were only discriminated against if they made known what their "sexual" preferences were. Blacks have no problem standing up for gays if they're denied the right to seek employement, housing or education because these are the rights we fought for also, but do not try to put blacks on the line about other aspects of the gay rights movement. Furthermore, where were the gays when blacks were fighting for their civil rights? Not out front and center, that's for sure. Black emphathize, but don't make blacks the scapgoat for your issues nor try to hijack the civil rights movement.
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#25 Feb 10, 2012
realist wrote:
<quoted text>Human rights are for humans so why are you against rights for gays?
If you really want an honest dialogue, knock off the bullsh!t word games. If, however, you insist on the word games, that indicates to me that you have no real interest in real dialogue.

Your choice.
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#26 Feb 10, 2012
Gay Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
Clarified. Thank you. I knew you weren't for gay marriage, what I didn't know is that you didn't believe that we have been denied civil rights in many areas. As well informes as you are, I find this hard to believe. I would like to discuss this with you, but not on these %^&$# boards. I'll try to catch you later...vacation tomorrow!!!!
Re: vacation, I'm jealous. More envious, actually. Re everything else, the ONLY thing I oppose is same sex relationps being called marriage. I'm not sure you've seen me condone denial of what we may agree to be "civil rights." I suppose we have to define what is or is not a civil right. Some people claims all sorts of nonsense as some imaginary right. For instance, I'm not sure (as in I'm really not sure) abortion is a "right" even though I support it being an option, and even support public funding for them under certain circumstances.

Certainly I'm open to dialogue, especially with you, but AFTER you've come back from your vacation.(Did I mention the envious factor?)

And of course, poor dumb Oxy is now, always has been and likely always will be an embarrassment to the gay community but would, I believe, be a fitting poster child for Planned Parenthood and post partum abortion.(Sorry, but it's fun and certainly cheap entertainment making fun of that worthless little sh!t.)
Tucksun Jack

Tucson, AZ

#27 Feb 10, 2012
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> Re: vacation, I'm jealous. More envious, actually. Re everything else, the ONLY thing I oppose is same sex relationps being called marriage. I'm not sure you've seen me condone denial of what we may agree to be "civil rights." I suppose we have to define what is or is not a civil right. Some people claims all sorts of nonsense as some imaginary right. For instance, I'm not sure (as in I'm really not sure) abortion is a "right" even though I support it being an option, and even support public funding for them under certain circumstances.
Certainly I'm open to dialogue, especially with you, but AFTER you've come back from your vacation.(Did I mention the envious factor?)
And of course, poor dumb Oxy is now, always has been and likely always will be an embarrassment to the gay community but would, I believe, be a fitting poster child for Planned Parenthood and post partum abortion.(Sorry, but it's fun and certainly cheap entertainment making fun of that worthless little sh!t.)
Why do you oppose same sex relationships being called marriages if the couple is in fact married by a religious leader entitle dto perform the ceremony, or is legally wed in a civil ceremony ? What possible reason would you have to oppose such a thing ?
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#28 Feb 10, 2012
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael Steele was born in 1958; so he was too young to remember the civil rights brouhaha what was swirling around him during his childhood in the 1960s
.
To him; it is just a bad movie
.
Civil rights equality was handed to him on a silver platter
And you know any of this nonsense... how? You know Mr. Steel personally? Have you even met him? You know anything about him at all... other than the crap you were told to believe or otherwise just made up?
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#29 Feb 10, 2012
Tucksun Jack wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you oppose same sex relationships being called marriages if the couple is in fact married by a religious leader entitle dto perform the ceremony, or is legally wed in a civil ceremony ? What possible reason would you have to oppose such a thing ?
Simple, and you are neither obligated nor expected to agree with me. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that apples are not oranges, and I believe that oranges are not really even tangerines, however close they may be.

I support civil unions and I support domestice partnerships. Yes, I've heard the old argument that separate is not equal. And while that may have legal standing viv-a-vis racial separation and education, I don't agree with it. Yes, I know it is the law re education. I don't support that silly crap re marriage. Yet again, I'm not demanding or even asking that you agree with me or change your own position... although I do find it interesting that many on your side DEMAND that I change mine. Since nobody on here is smart enough or tough enough to intimidate me (and since the tactic has obviously not worked at all), I'll retain my opinion and invite you to retain yours.
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#30 Feb 10, 2012
Sorry, bappie, but you are using way too much logic and injecting waaay too much sense. That makes you very dangerous.

Congratulations.
bappie wrote:
<quoted text>Who said blacks are the only ones to have equal rights?
Blacks marched, were hosed, lynched, jailed and killed fighting for their equal rights. Their struggle was aided by Jews and decent whites. The civil rights they fought for were the right to vote, access to public education and facilities, jobs and housing. These are the things blacks fought for and every race you mentioned benefitted from those struggles and earned the same rights because of the struggle. Let's be clear about what the black civil rights struggle was for. So don't go there.
It is a big mistake to attack blacks with the issue of civil rights vs gay rights. Whites who just happened to be gay enjoyed always enjoyed civil rights by default. They were only discriminated against if they made known what their "sexual" preferences were. Blacks have no problem standing up for gays if they're denied the right to seek employement, housing or education because these are the rights we fought for also, but do not try to put blacks on the line about other aspects of the gay rights movement. Furthermore, where were the gays when blacks were fighting for their civil rights? Not out front and center, that's for sure. Black emphathize, but don't make blacks the scapgoat for your issues nor try to hijack the civil rights movement.
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#31 Feb 10, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
It might be helpful if you understand that marriage equality is only one of the remaining civil rights in the struggle for equal rights for gay people that started over a hundred years ago, and emerged in the US in 1924, only to be shut down by the police.
In the recent past, it was illegal simply to be gay, and being found out could result in anything from fines and public exposure leading to being fired, kicked out of your home, or imprisonment for life, and torture with emetics, electric shock, castration, and lobotomies. So part of the gay rights struggle has included the legal right to simply exist. The last laws outlawing simply being gay were not removed until 2003, and had to be removed by the Supreme Court, in Lawrence. Some of those unconstitutional laws remain on the books, and while unenforceable in any court, they are still used to detain and harass gay people.
DADT, which required punishment simply for being authentically gay, was only removed last year, and Santorum and others want to bring it back. Adoption continues to be legally denied in some places, as do protections in employment, housing, and public accommodations guaranteed to others based on choice of religious beliefs.
Hopefully this helps you understand the struggle for marriage equality is just one of the remaining legal hurdles gay people have been fighting to overcome our entire lives. No gay American has yet lived in full legal equality in the land that promises liberty and justice for ALL.
With due respect, most of your post is irrelevant and therefore a waste of time. I don't consider SSM to be a civil right, and I support civil unions. Yet again, I am not asking you to change your position in opposition to mine.

And having served in the military woith gays a long time ago, I have never supported DADT and would never vote for Santorum, except maybe if the only choice were Mr. Obama.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#32 Feb 10, 2012
bappie wrote:
<quoted text>Who said blacks are the only ones to have equal rights?
Blacks marched, were hosed, lynched, jailed and killed fighting for their equal rights. Their struggle was aided by Jews and decent whites. The civil rights they fought for were the right to vote, access to public education and facilities, jobs and housing. These are the things blacks fought for and every race you mentioned benefitted from those struggles and earned the same rights because of the struggle. Let's be clear about what the black civil rights struggle was for. So don't go there.
It is a big mistake to attack blacks with the issue of civil rights vs gay rights. Whites who just happened to be gay enjoyed always enjoyed civil rights by default. They were only discriminated against if they made known what their "sexual" preferences were. Blacks have no problem standing up for gays if they're denied the right to seek employement, housing or education because these are the rights we fought for also, but do not try to put blacks on the line about other aspects of the gay rights movement. Furthermore, where were the gays when blacks were fighting for their civil rights? Not out front and center, that's for sure. Black emphathize, but don't make blacks the scapgoat for your issues nor try to hijack the civil rights movement.
“Many gays, many lesbians, worked side by side with me in the civil rights movement. Am I supposed to tell them now thanks for risking their lives and their limbs to help me win my rights but that they are excluded because of the circumstances of their birth? Not a chance.” Julian Bond in 2005

He also said; " I think Martin King would stand as his widow stood -- in favor of them."

Julian Bond again: "I see this as a civil rights issue. That means I support gay civil marriage."

Coretta Scott King said "I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr's dream to make room at the table of brother and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people."

Civil rights leader Bayard Rustin, architect of the March On Washington and one of Dr. King's main advisors, said way back in 1986: "The barometer of where one is on human rights questions is no longer the black community, it's the gay community, because it is the community which is most easily mistreated."

Gay people in the US have been fighting since before 1924 for the right to exist without being locked up and tortured as well as for military service, housing, employment, public accommodations, and marriage equality.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#33 Feb 10, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
“Many gays, many lesbians, worked side by side with me in the civil rights movement. Am I supposed to tell them now thanks for risking their lives and their limbs to help me win my rights but that they are excluded because of the circumstances of their birth? Not a chance.” Julian Bond in 2005
He also said; " I think Martin King would stand as his widow stood -- in favor of them."
Julian Bond again: "I see this as a civil rights issue. That means I support gay civil marriage."
Coretta Scott King said "I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr's dream to make room at the table of brother and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people."
Civil rights leader Bayard Rustin, architect of the March On Washington and one of Dr. King's main advisors, said way back in 1986: "The barometer of where one is on human rights questions is no longer the black community, it's the gay community, because it is the community which is most easily mistreated."
Gay people in the US have been fighting since before 1924 for the right to exist without being locked up and tortured as well as for military service, housing, employment, public accommodations, and marriage equality.
Gays have all the rights you have stated with regards to civil rights. Gays are not denied housing, jobs, service in the military, use of public facilities, etc, health benefits for their partners, etc. The only issue you all are now facing is your choice of those partnerships being recognized as legal marriages. Please don't try to twist and manipulate the issue. Blacks did not fight for the right to marry. It was one of the few rights afforded to them. The Loving Case was a civil rights issue in that people of different races weren't allowed to marry one another, but blacks and whites fought for that right too and the laws (mostly in southern states) was overturned.

All the rights I have previously mentioned that blacks and other minorities have now, gays enjoy also. The issue is how hard gays are pushing people and some are pushing back. A poster on this forum stated you cannot regulate feelings nor emotions and MAKE people accept them. They either will or they won't. I honestly don't think the issue is so much gay marriage as it is in making it socially and morally acceptable which due to some people's religious beliefs, they will not. That doesn't make it right or wrong, however, gays feelings on the issue should supersede other people's rights to oppose something they feel they can't condone.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#34 Feb 10, 2012
*shouldn't*

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#35 Feb 10, 2012
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> With due respect, most of your post is irrelevant and therefore a waste of time. I don't consider SSM to be a civil right, and I support civil unions. Yet again, I am not asking you to change your position in opposition to mine.
And having served in the military woith gays a long time ago, I have never supported DADT and would never vote for Santorum, except maybe if the only choice were Mr. Obama.
You said you "don't consider same sex marriage on a par with civil rights or the struggle that blacks endure".

If you compare only the struggle for marriage equality to the entire civil rights struggle, I would have to agree. However, you seemed to be neglecting the fact that marriage equality is only one of the many civil rights gay people have been fighting for our entire lives. The right to exist free of government arrest and torture was one of those rights. I just wanted to make sure you knew gay people have been fighting for most of the same rights long before marriage equality was seriously considered.

While you don't consider marriage a civil right, I suspect you know by now the Supreme Court does, and has stated so on 14 separate occasions. What they have yet to decide is if gay people are entitled to that civil right as required by the constitution.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#36 Feb 10, 2012
bappie wrote:
<quoted text>Who said blacks are the only ones to have equal rights?
Blacks marched, were hosed, lynched, jailed and killed fighting for their equal rights. Their struggle was aided by Jews and decent whites. The civil rights they fought for were the right to vote, access to public education and facilities, jobs and housing. These are the things blacks fought for and every race you mentioned benefitted from those struggles and earned the same rights because of the struggle. Let's be clear about what the black civil rights struggle was for. So don't go there.
It is a big mistake to attack blacks with the issue of civil rights vs gay rights. Whites who just happened to be gay enjoyed always enjoyed civil rights by default. They were only discriminated against if they made known what their "sexual" preferences were. Blacks have no problem standing up for gays if they're denied the right to seek employement, housing or education because these are the rights we fought for also, but do not try to put blacks on the line about other aspects of the gay rights movement. Furthermore, where were the gays when blacks were fighting for their civil rights? Not out front and center, that's for sure. Black emphathize, but don't make blacks the scapgoat for your issues nor try to hijack the civil rights movement.
I find it strange that among your list of rights fought for, you left out inter-racial marriage. As to your question about where were gays during the fight for Civil Rights, we were right there marching and demonstrating along side you. I know, because I was there. We didn't have our own civil rights struggle organized at the time. That didn't even begin until the late 60's. Oh yeah, we had Sir and Mattichine Society, and a few others, but we weren't really organized.

The USSC has ruled something like 14 times that marriage is a basic civil right, and they did not rule that there were qualifications. So for you to tell me we don't have the right to marry each other tells me that you don't even really appreciate what I put on the line for you in the 60's and into the 70's. I said earlier I wasn't sure that what I did was worth it now, in light of the fact that so many African Americans now deem me unworthy, simply by the fact that I was born gay. It is a slap in the face undeserved by me.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#39 Feb 10, 2012
bappie wrote:
<quoted text>Gays have all the rights you have stated with regards to civil rights. Gays are not denied housing, jobs, service in the military, use of public facilities, etc, health benefits for their partners, etc. The only issue you all are now facing is your choice of those partnerships being recognized as legal marriages. Please don't try to twist and manipulate the issue. Blacks did not fight for the right to marry. It was one of the few rights afforded to them. The Loving Case was a civil rights issue in that people of different races weren't allowed to marry one another, but blacks and whites fought for that right too and the laws (mostly in southern states) was overturned.
All the rights I have previously mentioned that blacks and other minorities have now, gays enjoy also. The issue is how hard gays are pushing people and some are pushing back. A poster on this forum stated you cannot regulate feelings nor emotions and MAKE people accept them. They either will or they won't. I honestly don't think the issue is so much gay marriage as it is in making it socially and morally acceptable which due to some people's religious beliefs, they will not. That doesn't make it right or wrong, however, gays feelings on the issue should supersede other people's rights to oppose something they feel they can't condone.
It appears you are not aware gay people are still denied public accommodations, employment, housing protections, and health care for partners in some states, and the federal government does not yet protect those rights like they do for you. Adoption is also denied in some places. DADT was only recently overturned and many republicans want to bring it back.

Legal equality in relationship recognition does not force anyone to overcome their anti-gay prejudice, or affect the legal rights of marriage for straight people. While people are free to disapprove, they are not free to write that disapproval into the law when it denies to others the rights they themselves enjoy without demonstrating a compelling governmental interest in such denial of equality. Prejudice alone is not a legitimate governmental interest, and that is all those opposed to equality have.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#40 Feb 10, 2012
Lulzy wrote:
Gays are discriminated and fired from jobs, denied healthcare for partners and tax benefits.(slurs deleted)
While true gay people "are discriminated and fired from jobs, denied healthcare for partners and tax benefits", your prejudice does not advance equality, and neglects the fact that may gay people are also members of racial minorities. You also should realize recognizing rights for one group does not require taking them away from others. There are no quotas on rights. No one loses any rights when they are applied equally to all.

Time to grow up and overcome the prejudice you were taught as a child. If George Wallace can do it, so can you. In the mean time, you just look like a shill for the opposition.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#42 Feb 10, 2012
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it strange that among your list of rights fought for, you left out inter-racial marriage. As to your question about where were gays during the fight for Civil Rights, we were right there marching and demonstrating along side you. I know, because I was there. We didn't have our own civil rights struggle organized at the time. That didn't even begin until the late 60's. Oh yeah, we had Sir and Mattichine Society, and a few others, but we weren't really organized.
The USSC has ruled something like 14 times that marriage is a basic civil right, and they did not rule that there were qualifications. So for you to tell me we don't have the right to marry each other tells me that you don't even really appreciate what I put on the line for you in the 60's and into the 70's. I said earlier I wasn't sure that what I did was worth it now, in light of the fact that so many African Americans now deem me unworthy, simply by the fact that I was born gay. It is a slap in the face undeserved by me.
I didn't leave it out. See post #33 - Re: Loving Case before the supreme court.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#43 Feb 10, 2012
bappie wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't leave it out. See post #33 - Re: Loving Case before the supreme court.
O.K. It wasn't in the one I replied to, but I'll give you that you did mention it in another post. However, I like the way you just slipped by the rest of my post. That's O.K. too. I guess it proves my point.

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