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Wendell
San Antonio, TX
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Being proud is different from positive proof many people have in the pass have Faked ,YES FRAUDS NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE, Read this Watch the movie "GREY OWL" he was proud also but still fraud. watch movie "GREY OWL" In 1930, shortly after the studio release of his movie The Silent Enemy, Buffalo Child Long Lance’s Indian identity began to crumble. He was a celebrity by that time, having boxed Dempsey and dated movie stars, but he was not, it turned out, a full-blooded Blackfeet Indian who had been raised on the plains, as he had claimed. He had not hunted buffalo from horseback as the prairie winds blew through his hair. And his name was not actually Buffalo Child Long Lance. His real name was Sylvester Long. He was from Winston-Salem, N.C. He was African-American. And his father was not a chief but, rather, a janitor. Margaret B. Jones, the author of Love and Consequences, is hardly the first person to have invented an Indian self and a past. Her memoir tells of her upbringing as a half-white, half-Indian foster child by a black family in South Central L.A. In fact, Jones’ real name is Margaret Seltzer, she did not grow up in South Central, she’s never been a foster child, and she’s no more a Native American than Sylvester Long was. By inventing a Native American heritage, Seltzer joins a long and distinguished list of fake Indians. In addition to Buffalo Child Long Lance, her tribe consists of Nasdijj (who fabricated a Native identity and passed it off in not one but three books: Geronimo’s Bones, The Boy and the Dog Are Sleeping, and The Blood Runs Like a River Through My Dreams), Forrest Carter (whose fake Cherokee boyhood is described in The Education of Little Tree), and Grey Owl (the persona of the Englishman Archibald Belaney, who wrote and toured on the strength of his Indian-inspired conservationism between the World Wars). It’s easy enough to imagine what motivates literary fakers—their inventions are a way to win attention and acclaim for work that would otherwise be dismissed as pedestrian. But why pretend to be an Indian? What is so appealing about stripping off one’s own identity and donning a reddish one?
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Stan Smith
San Antonio, TX
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Yes Wendell ,I saw that movie and yes it makes sense!!!, he was so proud but he was really and Englishman from England around WW1 or 2 it was a great movie and yes we really do need to weed and make absolutely sure people are Native american before we pass BIlls for any group even Proud Lumbees whose heritage is at a high doubt!!! you all should watch that movie and then think about how easy it was to fake Indian heritage 80 or even 50 years ago,,,wow!!!
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realist
Tallahassee, FL
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Wendell wrote: They found a way to avoid the BIA with politics because they dont meet the minimum criteria as Indians. I am 4/4 Apache from Arizona. I grew up on a reservation 100 miles east of Phoenix. I learned Apache before English. I was raised in many of the customs like hunting, extreme mountain running, and knowledge of history. I survived a bear attack in Arizona. I also have two master's degrees as an engineer who focuses on healthcare. I work in Florida. I moved here in 2002 from Colorado. My grandfather is a WWII Veteran. His brother was an Apache US Marine at Iwo Jima - Semper Fi. I am descended from renegades and scouts. One of the photos shows an Apache soldier in Germany. http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/in... I am a mountain runner, so I sometimes go up to Mt. Enotah in North GA, the former Cherokee town of the 1830s. I am aware of the history with Andrew Jackson and how most Cherokees were relocated. I am also aware of the Lumbees. As a real Apache from Arizona, I view both the Cherokees and Lumbees as being mostly mixed-blooded Native Americans. Most Cherokees I knew looked more Scottish or Irish with reddish-brown hair. I met Lumbees from North Carolina, and they obviously had Caucasian features or looked like light-skinned Hispanics with curly hair. But I could see the partial Native American heritage. Even if a person is only 1/16 Cherokee, I can still see the distinct Native American features that may be subtle to most people. I know the complicated history led to interracial marriages and unions with mixed-blooded children over hundreds of years. All it takes is one Non-Indian to disrupt the gene pool. Now that I live in Florida, I know now why most Cherokees are part white - some of the southern white women really like Native American guys. It reminds me of that movie "The Undefeated." John Wayne battles Confederates with his adopted son, a full-blooded Cherokee Scout. The Confederate Colonel's daughter, a white "southern belle" falls for the Cherokee guy. So they ride off at the end. It's still like that. Here at FSU I had four white women try to get into my F-150 when they were drunk near campus. It was like "Girls Gone Wild." It was bizarre. That movie "Undefeated" reminds me of my white female friend from a Georgia sorority. She is a nice person and a hard working student. The intermixing of southerners and Native Americans was extremely frequent. That's why most of the real Cherokees and Lumbees are gone. I have a coworker who is 1/16 Cherokee and 1/16 Seminole but is blonde and looks 4/4 white. http://www.aveleyman.com/FilmCredit.aspx... However, I do respect the plight of the mixed-blooded Indians. I know they are trying to find dignity in their identity. I am impressed with the historical standoff of the Lumbees against the KKK. Arizona had a lot of racial tension in the 1970s. http://www.youtube.com/watch... I thought the south was supposed to be really bigoted. But for the most part, the southerners have been nice to me. I have met white southerners who actually like the survival story of the Seminoles who never surrendered. I empathize with the reality of mixed-blooded ancestry in the east. I met Billy Mills in Phoenix - the 1964 Lakota Gold Medalist in the 10k.
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realist
Tallahassee, FL
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AMERICAN CITIZEN wrote: <quoted text>THEY NEED TO CHECK EVERY LUMBEES DNA AND SEE HOW MUCH INDIAN BLOOD THEY HAVE! WHICH ALOT OF THEM WILL PROBALY FIND OUT HOW MUCH AFRICAN AMERICAN IS THERE! Us Apaches and Navajos don't have to get our DNA tested. We are among the last recognized as 4/4. I grew up in Arizona on the Apache Reservation. I speak Apache too. I am a biomedical engineer and moved to Florida in 2002. I use high-altitude training to keep playing basketball at FSU. I was team captain for three years in intramural basketball when I was in graduate school. I made a lot of friends far off the reservation from basketball. The sport is very popular on the reservations out west. They win a lot of state championships. The 2A and 3A tournament gets a lot of reservation athletes in Phoenix every February. I love basketball and mountain running. I go to the Cherokee land near Gainesville, GA towards NC by the Appalachian Trail and hike with 10lb leg weights to get ready for basketball every winter. It's too bad the real 4/4 Cherokees are gone now. I would have liked to have met them. I wish they were still there. http://www.youtube.com/watch... Let me tell you about my real Apache side. I believe my Apache ancestors prayed long ago in the 1880s when they were Prisoners of War in Florida. In the midst of suffering, they wanted success in future generations of Apaches. Over a hundred years later, I am back as a real Apache and earned my 2nd master's degree at FSU. I am now getting ready for a PhD. The Apache in me believes the shamans long ago wanted this to happen. I am also a devout Catholic, but I don't see that as a conflict with my Apache culture (and neither did the Irish Catholic Nuns who taught me English). The military history of my family is complicaed. I am related to scouts for the US Calvary. One of them won a Congressional Medal of Honor serving for West Point Generals. Others were renegades. I am descended from a few who never surrendered in the Sierra Madres. One of my relatives escaped from the POW train taking Apaches to Florida in 1886 with Geronimo. I want to thank the Cherokees for offering Geronimo a home in 1886 in North Carolina. I know the white citizens of North Carolina would not allow it. Many of the POWs died from disease and misery. But one escaped in St. Louis - Massai. A few renegades never surrendered and have that in common with the Seminoles. In reality, I am also related to loyal Apache scouts who befriended US Army Generals like Generals Crook or Nelson. Apache history is complicated. http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Wendell
San Antonio, TX
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Great comments realist! I am originally from Florida and one of the last few non-flodgers(florida lodgers,snowbirds) I grew up in seminole reservation areas and miccosukee.I also have lived in arizona on the tohono O'odham papago reservation in tuscon,AZ. My ancestors were Cherokee,Creek,Catawba so i know well the plight of mixed peoples but it is very hard to take urban mixed people who have no real native culture show them some plains indian powows and say u are indian native american and the Lumbee group hasnt understood that alot of americas have some possible ancestor of possible native origins but once that positive connection such as ,language,names,places,customs artifacts etc,, is lost and you also are extremely mixed out culturally and biologically with europeans(whites)too,,you are then completely assimilated totally JUST AMERICAN thats all LUMBEES you can buy votes and politicians but never that Unbroken Cultural connection which is what the BIA requires. but with this hard economy many will try to find MONEY or Benefits anywhere they can ,Even formimg a TRIBE. This Lumbee H.B.31 will cost the tax payers almost a Billion dollars every 4 years if Lumbees are federally recognized. I believe only Trail Of Tears people on the East coast should benefit from such legislation and the LUMBEE werent considered even by pres,Andrew jackson back then for removal because they are not honest True native American tribe .I cant say every member is not but not 56,000 people maybe only 9 or 10 of them possibly playing the Odds.Stop trying to steal indian money Lumbee Council. WADO
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realist
Tallahassee, FL
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AMERICAN CITIZEN wrote: <quoted text>THEY NEED TO CHECK EVERY LUMBEES DNA AND SEE HOW MUCH INDIAN BLOOD THEY HAVE! WHICH ALOT OF THEM WILL PROBALY FIND OUT HOW MUCH AFRICAN AMERICAN IS THERE! I know most East Coast Native Americans are not full-blooded anymore. They often have mixed Euorpean ancestry. Some also have African ancestry. But over in my home state of Arizona there is no such controversy. This video shows a basketball game for two Navajo teams in rural Arizona. The sport is extremely popular. It's a real "Rez" game with all the intense running. http://www.youtube.com/watch... Zuni HS is a powerhouse in cross country. The Zuni Reservation is near the Four Corners region south of Gallup, NM. The full-blooded Zunis still exist, and they thrive in cross country. I have seen the team run every day by the rock formations on their traditional homeland. http://www.youtube.com/watch... The reservation towns of Zuni, Shiprock, Acoma, Laguna, Jemez, Isleta, Tuba City, Keams Canyon, San Carlos, Sells, Fort McDowell, and Whiteriver have a lot of reservation teams who do well in baskeball and running. An Apache guy from my tribe won the Arizona heavyweight wrestling champion. He was 6'5" and 294 lbs. Native American athletes were usually not recruited due to blatant racism. This contrasts the early success of indigenous athletes at Carlisle Indian School. But the racism is slowly fading, and now Native American athletes are being recruited. CU Boulder has Native American runners who have been All Americans. Adams State had a Division II 10k champion - the Navajo runner from Shiprock, Brandon Leslie. Air Force had two Navajo basketball stars when I lived in Colorado. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_Indians... I empathize with all you mixed blooded Native Americans in the East Coast. I know the ancestry can be questioned because of the historical reality of intermixing. I empathize with that. Arizona still has Native Americans enrolled as 4/4 who can still speak the indigenous language. In 100-200 years they will probably become mixed-blooded too, and many indigenous languages will die (as most already have). But for now Arizona and New Mexico still have undisputed, full-blooded, bilingual Native Americans who are still thriving in reservation sports. There aren't that many left though. That population represents less than 0.1% of the total US population of ~300 million. I am proud to be a real Apache who is a part of it. There aren't too many of us 4/4 left nationwide though. But I do empathize with those mixed blooded people struggling to get recognition for Native American ancestry. Best wishes. Apache: "Enjuh." English: "It is well." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_Indians...
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Wendell
San Antonio, TX
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The comments from true native Americans at this site are quite calm and logically explained but the Lumbees all they every say is oce over here and say that we wlii hit you over the head!!! I can tel who are the real natives because we are calm and logical about most things ,The LUMBEE tend to always either have no logical argument about their tribe or a mad response which is typical of ghetto frican americans for the most part or trailer park people!! Wado Native Americans thanks for speaking up logically and maybe LUMBEES will see the difference why they dont fit in with Native Americans.
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realist
Tallahassee, FL
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Disgusted in Lumberton wrote: By thier own origin story, the Lumbee tribe does not deserve Federal Recognition. They claim to be descendants of the lost colony which would negate their claim at being "full-blooded" Native Americans that deserve federal recognition. The majority of the tribe is already living off of public assistance, so in a way the government is already supporting them, just not in the way they want or to the extent they want. Us Navajos and Apaches don't have to worry about recognition. We are among the last full-blooded Native Americans left. There are very few us relative to the total US population. I know you Cherokees and Lumbees are mostly mixed-blooded now. It's happening in Arizona too. For now, the full-blooded, brown Native Americans with jet-black hair still exist. And the Navajo language is alive. I am Apache but can understand a lot of the phrases. Apaches and Navajos had been on tribe hundreds of years ago. The Navajo elders often like to talk to me in Phoenix. Unfortunately, some of the Navajos would reject interaction with mixed-blooded Cherokees and Lumbees and would refer to them as "wannabes" or "pseudo-Indians." But I empathize with the plight of mixed-blooded Native Americans. I hope you find peace in the search for your identity. My chidren might be mixed-blooded because of the way some of the southern belles like Native Americans. http://www.youtube.com/watch... The Zunis have a very strong cultural foundation with their language and 4/4 status. My Zuni classmates in high school spoke the language all the time. I even learned a few phrases. It was awesome to hear them joking in Zuni while playing pool at Santa Fe, NM. The Zunis, Navajos, Jemez, Acoma, Laguna, and Isleta were the real Native Americans who don't have to worry about getting federal recognition. There aren't too many full-blooded Indians left. I am glad I grew up in such communities with friends from those tribes. http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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PROUD LUMBEE
Lumberton, NC
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AMERICAN CITIZEN wrote: <quoted text>THEY NEED TO CHECK EVERY LUMBEES DNA AND SEE HOW MUCH INDIAN BLOOD THEY HAVE! WHICH ALOT OF THEM WILL PROBALY FIND OUT HOW MUCH AFRICAN AMERICAN IS THERE! I am a proud Lumbee, and all I have to say is that obviously you are ignorant, racist, and the most obvious, STUPID!!! You need to mind your own buisness, you are obviously not Lumbee, so BUTT OUT! I am NOT part black by the way and I'd proudly take a DNA test to prove that to YOU!
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Burnt out
Laurinburg, NC
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Like it or not people if you go back far enough, we are all related, we are descended from Adam and Eve....then after the flood, the earth was repopulated with the children and grandchildren of Noah.....so get over thinking that you are pure anything other than mixed......I am sorry but we all are, so thinking you are full blooded, ahhh WRONG!!!!! And yes you can say I am wrong, but oh well think what you want...
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Burnt out
Laurinburg, NC
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Ashamed Relative wrote: <quoted text>
F*** you, you are truly a worthless piece of s***. Oh and really I am the sick individual when you and your so-called "tribe" of Lumbees (WHICH IS A FAKE NAME BECAUSE YOUR *FAKE* Indians) claim a heritage that does not and never will belong to you. YOU ARE NOT INDIANS! I am right to be ashamed to be related to you worthless, money grubbing, race confused scumbags! In fact YOU and your piece of s*** SCUMBEE trash relatives are GARBAGE! You will NEVER be recognized by other Indians as Indian because you ARE NOT and the only reason you lash out at other people is because you ALL KNOW deep down that no matter how many fake pow wows copying other cultures, no matter how many times you scream that your Indian, no matter how many names you call other people YOU KNOW YOU ARE NOT INDIANS!!!!!!!!!! GET OVER IT! I WILL SAY IT ONCE MORE FOR THE F****** RECORD B****-**YOU ARE NOT INDIAN**! So glad that the intellectual side of you was able to come out, thought there for a minute you were thinking like your lumbee kin....oh and glad you figured out the reply button......and for the record the FU was a real nice touch...
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realist
Tallahassee, FL
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Disgusted in Lumberton wrote: By thier own origin story, the Lumbee tribe does not deserve Federal Recognition. They claim to be descendants of the lost colony which would negate their claim at being "full-blooded" Native Americans that deserve federal recognition. The majority of the tribe is already living off of public assistance, so in a way the government is already supporting them, just not in the way they want or to the extent they want. I hope you East Coast Native Americans are able to reassert some identity and re-establish the community structure. It must be hard after so many generations of intermarriage with colonists. I don't have that problem. I went back to the Apache Reservation yesterday. I went to visit my grandparents who prefer to speak Apache. A neighbor stopped by, and the entire conversation switched deep into Apache with two dialects - White Mountain and Aravaipa. It was awesome. My grandfather described the WWII events and a historical account involving a Navajo soldier. I recorded the MPEG. He described much of the events in Apache. I am glad I saved that history. Native American languages are fast dying out, and they intermarry with whites at a frequency higher than any other minority group. The cultures are dying, but I did my part to save a part of it yesterday. It was great to be back in rugged Apache Country. Now, I am back in Florida to work as a biomedical engineer.
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Wendell
San Antonio, TX
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the realist has very logical comments!!! Wado
You have true pride and thats awesome language related to navajo.
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Tsalagi pride
Misenheimer, NC
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First of all, the Lumbees are NOT CHEROKEE, nor will they ever be known as such. Second, they aren't even of Native American descent. I have spent many hours and many days doing my research on these "people" whom refer to themselves as Native American. I have yet to find liable proof that they were in fact descendants of a Native American tribe. Yet they still want to claim they come from my blood. All i can say is that is the most Atrocious claim i have ever heard. I do not think they should be recognized today, tomorrow or EVERY!
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Wendell
San Antonio, TX
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Well the Lumbee say that they have been told by their parents that their ancestors were some kind of Indian and they are most hard headed stubborn about it even when all the facts show otherwise but with votes they have convinced some politicians to back them even the president without any further proof or new proof to their claim .At first the lumbee claimed Tuscorora then the lost colony of Roanoke then they claimed Cherokee then Cherokee of Robeson county next they claimed to be Cheraw or some other coastal tribe is the latest theory!!! Even without any historical or scientific proof or any remnant cultural remains at all not a drop !!! but for sure the european ancestry can be proven if they receive federal recognition the Lumbee will be able to claim land as reservation,have their own police and courts and act as a sovereign nation and receive close to a 800million in federal aid every 4 years also add anyone to their tribal rolls as Native american proof of ancestry is not required for membership,this is part of their reconition bill that the BIA cannot require them to prove Indian ancestry!! what a fraud tribe!!
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Johnson
San Antonio, TX
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How much black blood is not the issue here folks ,,thats irrelevent or how much white blood they may have lets not be racist ,be logical ,once the Lumbee get Fed recognized they will be able to buy land ,make laws like a sovereign nation hire police ,grab up land call it a reservation under the BIA land acquisitions act and do whatever they want in NC ,including putting anyone they want on their tribal rolls because the Bill they have in congress forbids the BIA from verifying that the enrolled members are Indians,,yes !!! they added that to the Bill !!!!!! they are keeping the BIA out of the membership selection process specifically!!!! what a Con, You must wonder WHY they added to the bill that the BIA dies not have to approve membership like they do for all other Indians because the tribe can issue Blood Quantum cards and make them selves full bloods if they choose with blood quantum cards they will be allowed to make up their own blood Quantum cards as a recognized tribe yes!!!!!!!!!
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washington
San Antonio, TX
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thanks Dec 10th kenmax commenter, but you still have added NO PROOF to your claim of Native American ancestry except to say that people that people are Keeping you DOWN!! It is not the power to be listened to but it is Put proof behind what you say ,there have been many fake and frauds out there in the pastand most lumbees are really majority european blood so even if a few really are part native Indian and they really believe it ,and i do believe that you believe it so not to doubt your beliefs I dont doubt you at all but Proof is what is needed in these days of fraud!! So think about that point of argument against it, Stay proud and be proud group known as Lumbee but bring on the proof because even the Lumbee DNA project has not brought Native American DNA , check out that project on the web, the lumbees DNA so far has been European and African so how can anyone think other?? tell me ?? here is the link http://www.huxford.com/Genetics_Lumbee.htm wendell December 10, 2009, 8:30pm (report abuse) hardly No American Indian DNA found among tested LUMBEES so far!!!! no surprise!!! go to this site to see some lumbee DNA results click results tab. http://www.huxford.com/Genetics_Lumbee.htm look at the test results out of 400 or more only 3 have a,b c ,d Dan which is native american or asian oriental. proof of no indian dna
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Traveled Lumbee
Greensboro, NC
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american citizen wrote: hey sarah why dont you ask your cherokee relatives what they think about the lums they will tell you blue eyed and green eyed people with nappy hair are not indians. dna tests will show just how much indian blood they got! even the lumbee tribal council are considering doing this. its called the process of elimnation.just be glad the state recongnizes them,and another thing their gene pool is getting smaller and smaller because they dont leave out of robeson county they are starting to intermarry! Laughs at the pure ignorance of this individual that obviously has the intelligence of a gnat. I am a Lumbee that not only has traveled but has been educated at one of the top GRADUATE Schools in the Country (in the Los Angeles Area, you figure out which). It is obvious from your post (grammar and spelling)that you might have graduated High school at the most, and if you did you barely made it. You obviously have not heard of the large populations of Lumbees in Detroit, Baltimore, and other areas of the Country. You obviously have not heard of Lumbees being personal Physicians to the President of the United States. Well guess what my uneducated friend, it is all fact. Now whey you get our of Clarkton and travel and receive graduate degrees from ANYWHERE, or become a personal physician to ANYONE, I would not say very much. Because all you have done is embarrass yourself and shown anyone in the world with a computer just how ignorant you are.
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Traveled Lumbee
Greensboro, NC
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Thought I would put in a few mistakes so you would unerstand. Laughs
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washington
San Antonio, TX
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Traveled Lumbee all you do is mention politics,,well being educated, I have a degree in Anthropology Mr. and so I know something and being educated and being a Doctor to a politician does not make you smart only as crooked as they are!! and greedy so that doesnt make you any more native by your political status! ha ha amazing your are definitely not an indian ,you are the ideal whiteman and you add no new proof mr.brains to your claim as an Indian except to worry about Cherokee!!! wow you are a genius !! NOT !! The question at hand is are Lumbee Native americans Cherokee were marched on trail of tears and you guys didnt even get considered for that because you are and allways have not been Indians ,not then not now ,all you have is political clout ,exactly!! washichi !!
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