~OffTopic~

[Marilyn]

Okay Bear... we will try again a place to talk without others being bothered.

[Marilyn]

Bear about entrapment with a prostitute...your argument about an undercover cop soliciting the crime.....I don't really understand your argument on that one....

If you are walking down that street and were asked that and you aren't a hooker most women would be insulted....and being offered money for sex by a stranger if you had never been one the odds must be very unlikely that you would make that choice....I don't think that is the same at all....

I make smart alec remarks about it sometimes but the reality is I can't imagine being paid for sex....though I do not judge a woman who makes that choice out of need or something....seriously the man who is the customer is as guilty, on a community moral level more so if he is married but we always blame the woman in this man's world..... I even understand that in a sense a mistress who is being provided for in a sense is prostitution though it isn't viewed that way....mostly because it isn't seen as a public health risk for one thing, and secondly it isn't publically visible for the most part....

[Marilyn]

Well, Bear there has been reports of a Bear sighting in my area....near my home. I haven't seen it though I do get a visit from a panther once in a while....

They say it is a gentle black bear that has not shown any signs of aggression. The way they are talking about it you would think it is a registered Democrat saying they hope it will just 'move on' so they don't have to drug it and move it or worse.

Poor bear, that is about the way they make me feel around here.

[Bearhugger]

Hello, Marilyn. My internet server was down much of the evening, and I hadn't been able to jump on to this new thread until just now. It's late, though, way past my bedtime.

I will return tomorrow afternoon so that I can respond to your comments.

Thank you. Good-night.

[Bearhugger]

Marilyn wrote:

Bear about entrapment with a prostitute...your argument about an undercover cop soliciting the crime.....I don't really understand your argument on that one....
If you are walking down that street and were asked that and you aren't a hooker most women would be insulted....and being offered money for sex by a stranger if you had never been one the odds must be very unlikely that you would make that choice....I don't think that is the same at all....
I make smart alec remarks about it sometimes but the reality is I can't imagine being paid for sex....though I do not judge a woman who makes that choice out of need or something....seriously the man who is the customer is as guilty, on a community moral level more so if he is married but we always blame the woman in this man's world..... I even understand that in a sense a mistress who is being provided for in a sense is prostitution though it isn't viewed that way....mostly because it isn't seen as a public health risk for one thing, and secondly it isn't publically visible for the most part....

I think you have understood my argument, Marilyn, since you seem to have restated it, in essence, the fact that a large majority of women would feel insulted, as I was, by a stranger soliciting sex for money.

And that is my point. How many young women had that plainclothed detective insulted by soliciting them? A dozen? A hundred? A thousand? So the citizens who pay his high salary are doublely taxed, because he is insulting them on the streets with his presumption that any one of them have it in them to sell their bodies. That is an example of extreme sexism, of extreme male chauvinism. It isn't racial profiling, but it is sexual profiling, or profiling based on one's being a female. So any citizen would be a target for his verbal abuse, based solely on the fact that she is a female. For what purpose? Out of the hundred females he insults, how many will actually accept his vain proposition? Is it that he is granted freedom to break the law, to solicit for purposes of prostitution in order that he may enforce the law? To verbally accost 99 females through his act of solicitation in order to arrest the one that does not find him offensive, the one that says yes?

[Bear]

By the way, the incident I'd mentioned regarding the cop soliciting a citizen for purposes of prostitution had occurred on a state university campus.

As I said, when he pulled out his badge, I told him, "The answer is still NO." He then apologized, "I'm sorry," he said, "We've been having a lot of problems with prostitution in this area."

Problems? The only problem he was having with prostitution is that there were none in that area, so there was nobody he could arrest. Only college students. If anyone looked around them, any ordinarily prudent person -- not the extraordinarily prudent person nor the extraordinarily imprudent person, but the ordinarily prudent person, he or she would have no reasonable grounds or probable cause to believe that any of those college students were in the business of selling their bodies for money.

I think it does not matter how I nor anyone else was dressed, whether I was wearing a mini-skirt or a jogging outfit -- I happened to be wearing a jogging outfit. A female colleged-aged student taking a walk on campus at night, wearing a jogging outfit, was presumed to be fair game for a sting operation.

If you don't call that entrapment, if the student is naive or emotionally vulnerable, or whatever, to accept the proposition, at the very least it is VERY BAD PUBLIC RELATIONS for the police department when its officers solicit persons for the purpose of prostitution when they haven't any reasonable grounds to believe that the individuals they target may in fact be prostitutes.

[Bear]

I may've mentioned this elsewhere, but it bears repeating on this new thread, in conjunction with my protest of the type of stings that should not be permitted...

When I was in California, called to jury duty, the judge had asked those present if any one of them had family members that had ever been arrested for a crime. One man put up his hand. He had previously mentioned his occuption as a researcher at the university (CalPoly).

When he raised his hand, I said to myself, "Man, your daughter was naive. She wasn't guilty. She had been seduced."

The judge then asked the man, "Which member of your family had been arrested.

The man answered, "My daughter."

The judge continued, "What was the crime?"

The man said, "Soliciting for purposes of prostitution."

The judge asked, "What was the final outcome of the case?"

The man responded, "The judge ruled it was a case of entrapment and threw it out of court."

When that man had raised his hand in response to the judge questioning about family members being arrested, I remembered he'd said that he was a university researcher, and my mind had flashed back about 5 or 6 years to the incident in Oregon, when I'd been solicited by the cop. I remember how it felt, being free to leave, because I wasn't so naive or gullible. I remember also how badly I felt for any woman who might've taken the bait. She had my sympathy. Any woman who would've accepted his proposition plainly would have been a victim of seduction, I thought. Her only "real" crime would have been naivity.

[Bear]

Marilyn wrote:

Well, Bear there has been reports of a Bear sighting in my area....near my home. I haven't seen it though I do get a visit from a panther once in a while....
They say it is a gentle black bear that has not shown any signs of aggression. The way they are talking about it you would think it is a registered Democrat saying they hope it will just 'move on' so they don't have to drug it and move it or worse.
Poor bear, that is about the way they make me feel around here.

How wonderful I think it is that a panther graces your land! I had occasion to see a mountain lion in the wild once, very up close. I was in Alaska. I must say it was the most beautiful creature I'd ever seen. I'd forgotten and had to consciously remind myself to breathe, because the sight of that big, beautiful cat literally had taken my breath away. It was a rare moment of awe. I'll admit my appreciation for the armor provided by my Chevrolet Sportsvan. Some places one just shouldn't walk at night...

I have spent much time in the woods and on rivers, in country that a bear could inhabit, yet I have never actually seen a free-roaming, wild bear.

Sightings of Democrats and/or Obama signs were not uncommon in my neighborhood around Election time. I myself had an Obama sign. Few people in my neighborhood posted McCain signs. Where I live, most of the homes cost considerably less than $250,000. If one wanted to see McCain signs, one would need to take a drive about 10 to 20 miles across town. The homes that sported most of those Republican signs generally cost upwards of $400,000.

[Marilyn]

Bear wrote:

<quoted text>
How wonderful I think it is that a panther graces your land! I had occasion to see a mountain lion in the wild once, very up close. I was in Alaska. I must say it was the most beautiful creature I'd ever seen. I'd forgotten and had to consciously remind myself to breathe, because the sight of that big, beautiful cat literally had taken my breath away. It was a rare moment of awe. I'll admit my appreciation for the armor provided by my Chevrolet Sportsvan. Some places one just shouldn't walk at night...
I have spent much time in the woods and on rivers, in country that a bear could inhabit, yet I have never actually seen a free-roaming, wild bear.
Sightings of Democrats and/or Obama signs were not uncommon in my neighborhood around Election time. I myself had an Obama sign. Few people in my neighborhood posted McCain signs. Where I live, most of the homes cost considerably less than $250,000. If one wanted to see McCain signs, one would need to take a drive about 10 to 20 miles across town. The homes that sported most of those Republican signs generally cost upwards of $400,000.

I had the only Obama sign in my neighborhood, there weren't many of McCain's out either. We have county elections where no democrat even runs for a seat and a Republican walks in unopposed. It is more than the fact they will lose I believe based on my own experences.

I do believe the cat I have seen is a panther instead of a bobcat based on size and tracks but it has been at night. I have seen one during the day a couple of miles away that is a bobcat I think. Not an expert on them. Bears are unusual but there was one a couple of years ago.

[Marilyn]

Bear wrote:

I may've mentioned this elsewhere, but it bears repeating on this new thread, in conjunction with my protest of the type of stings that should not be permitted...
When I was in California, called to jury duty, the judge had asked those present if any one of them had family members that had ever been arrested for a crime. One man put up his hand. He had previously mentioned his occuption as a researcher at the university (CalPoly).
When he raised his hand, I said to myself, "Man, your daughter was naive. She wasn't guilty. She had been seduced."
The judge then asked the man, "Which member of your family had been arrested.
The man answered, "My daughter."
The judge continued, "What was the crime?"
The man said, "Soliciting for purposes of prostitution."
The judge asked, "What was the final outcome of the case?"
The man responded, "The judge ruled it was a case of entrapment and threw it out of court."
When that man had raised his hand in response to the judge questioning about family members being arrested, I remembered he'd said that he was a university researcher, and my mind had flashed back about 5 or 6 years to the incident in Oregon, when I'd been solicited by the cop. I remember how it felt, being free to leave, because I wasn't so naive or gullible. I remember also how badly I felt for any woman who might've taken the bait. She had my sympathy. Any woman who would've accepted his proposition plainly would have been a victim of seduction, I thought. Her only "real" crime would have been naivity.

I don't know...I am not saying that people can't be targeted and set up....or that police don't abuse their power, even to embarrass or upset the father could have been a goal I suppose.....

I also can see what you are saying about being solicated or insulted but how would you suggest dealing with areas where prostitutes are solicating on the streets? I don't think it can be ignored even as a public nuisence...but I also don't see it being the biggest priority in law enforcement either....

Randomly trying to make drug buys in areas where dealers are none to hang out may mean innocent people are asked and just say no...how is that any different?

[Marilyn]

Have you ever heard about this Bear...it interested me because I hadn't heard of it....it does seem the woman had some kind of breakdown but at the same time I can't help but wonder what was going on because of some of the weird things I have experienced of feeling targeted....and some really bizarre stuff, and I don't mean online...though there is plenty of weirdness there too...

http://www.opednews.com/thoreau1103bush_rape_...

[Marilyn]

133 C St. SE is in the news too.

A secret religious group they say, but then I still wonder about Pat Robertson's connection with the CIA...listed on that website, and of course FCC license all TV.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...

[Bear]

Marilyn, I'm very sorry. I've been experiencing difficulty getting back on line. Same problem as I had last night. Error message stated that the "Domain Server" is down.

I've arranged for a technician to visit my house on Saturday. It's been 10 years since I've had cable TV, so I'm going to have my internet service upgraded too, since I've only got basic internet now, and it's a bit slow. It often struggles with videos. The upgraded speed ought to eliminate that problem, and hopefully the "fiber optics" installation will solve the problems I had last night and tonight.

If you don't see any more posts from me tonight, it's not because I'm not trying to respond. It's the equipment... not my computer, but the connection. Hope this post goes through.

[Bear]

Marilyn wrote:

Have you ever heard about this Bear...it interested me because I hadn't heard of it....it does seem the woman had some kind of breakdown but at the same time I can't help but wonder what was going on because of some of the weird things I have experienced of feeling targeted....and some really bizarre stuff, and I don't mean online...though there is plenty of weirdness there too...
http://www.opednews.com/thoreau1103bush_rape_...

I vaguely recall hearing some media presentation regarding the woman's complaint about Bush, yes. The suburban areas mentioned in the article (Missouri City, Sugarland, and Fort Bend) are not far from where I live, but I don't visit those areas very often. Some parts of Sugarland are regarded as "upscale" by people around here, yet, at the same time, residents of Sugarland often protest the high crime rate in that section of the county. It had been "famous" for the C & H Sugar factory, which is quite visible from Highway 59, but the company had shut down a few years ago and had moved operations to another state. I had often passed through Sugarland on my way to Brazos Bend State Park, which is one of my favorite parks. It reminds me of the photos I've seen of the Florida Everglades. Occasionally, we have storks and other birds of Florida visit us. They seem to like that park too.

I don't know what to say about the incident involving Bush and the woman from Sugarland. It hadn't been spoken of much, if at all, by people around here, except for the brief blurbs on the news.

Let me think about this, as well as the other topics you've mentioned today. I'll get back with you tomorrow.(Maybe I'll be lucky and have no connectivity issues then.)

I hope all is well, or at least reasonably so. Stay sane!***smile***

Good night.

{hug}

[Marilyn]

Bear wrote:

<quoted text>
I vaguely recall hearing some media presentation regarding the woman's complaint about Bush, yes. The suburban areas mentioned in the article (Missouri City, Sugarland, and Fort Bend) are not far from where I live, but I don't visit those areas very often. Some parts of Sugarland are regarded as "upscale" by people around here, yet, at the same time, residents of Sugarland often protest the high crime rate in that section of the county. It had been "famous" for the C & H Sugar factory, which is quite visible from Highway 59, but the company had shut down a few years ago and had moved operations to another state. I had often passed through Sugarland on my way to Brazos Bend State Park, which is one of my favorite parks. It reminds me of the photos I've seen of the Florida Everglades. Occasionally, we have storks and other birds of Florida visit us. They seem to like that park too.
I don't know what to say about the incident involving Bush and the woman from Sugarland. It hadn't been spoken of much, if at all, by people around here, except for the brief blurbs on the news.
Let me think about this, as well as the other topics you've mentioned today. I'll get back with you tomorrow.(Maybe I'll be lucky and have no connectivity issues then.)
I hope all is well, or at least reasonably so. Stay sane!***smile***
Good night.
{hug}

I may too late...LOL. Honestly if anyone had been though what I have been for about a year and a half they would have lost their mind, I am surprised I haven't....

[Marilyn]

By the way I don't imagine that Bush was personally responsible but feel she was reacting to something outside of herself, something was going on.....

[Bear]

http://salonesoterica.wordpress.com/2008/05/0...

Margie Schoedinger is mentioned in the list found on the above website. She's number #13 on the list.

[Bear]

Marilyn wrote:

133 C St. SE is in the news too.
A secret religious group they say, but then I still wonder about Pat Robertson's connection with the CIA...listed on that website, and of course FCC license all TV.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...

Have you seen the New World Order film, or have you heard anything about it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_ (film)

[Bear]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_ (film)

[Bear]

Click on New World Order (film) in the above link for info about the film.

Quoted from the New World Order (film) link:

"Christopher Monfette writes,'New World Order is a fascinating, confusing, moving, frustrating, multi-layered documentary that sheds light on a group we might otherwise purposefully keep in the darkness. Without agenda or judgment, we are left to decide on our own how we feel, and for a documentary in a day when documentaries are notoriously manipulative, that's a mark of excellence.' The film is rated a 7 on a ten scale.[3]

Don R. Lewis writes for Film Threat,'New World Order is an intriguing, evenhanded peek into a world all around us that we never really see.'[4]"