Senate begins anticipated health care...

Senate begins anticipated health care overhaul debate

There are 31 comments on the Northwest Herald story from Dec 1, 2009, titled Senate begins anticipated health care overhaul debate. In it, Northwest Herald reports that:

Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-Mich. and Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, pick up a copy of the house health care bill HB-3962 after they took it up the steps to the House after a rally Nov.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Northwest Herald.

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Mike

Leonard, TX

#1 Dec 1, 2009
Healtcare reform is just another way our so called "communist leaders" continue to kick us why were down. I agree there are big problems with health care, however with the jobless rate, "planned" recession, this is not the right time to address it. If our "leaders" really gave a care about our people, they need to pull there heads out of their asses and get the bigger fish first.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#2 Dec 1, 2009
Mike wrote:
Healtcare reform is just another way our so called "communist leaders" continue to kick us why were down. I agree there are big problems with health care, however with the jobless rate, "planned" recession, this is not the right time to address it. If our "leaders" really gave a care about our people, they need to pull there heads out of their asses and get the bigger fish first.
Unfortunately, the Bush administration caused all the problems you list.
They were Marxist, but not Communists. The neo-conservative movement, with its roots in Marxism, has been a wolf in sheep's clothing fofr the USA.

The "big problems with health care" contribute to many other problems. Every day, hospitals are struggling, and dome failing, to stay open. Every hospital that closes,(and they are closing because of the "big problems with health care,") throws hundreds more workers on the streets; and degrades community lift severely.

If the GOP would only stop foot-dragging at each and every step, you would see progress at a more rapid rate.

The "planned recession" was not so much planned, as precipitated. The terrible damage to our economy by Bush's deregulation of financial instuments was designed to elimoinate the American middle-income group.

Look around.
He did just what he meant to do.
And guess what?
The (very) rich are getting richer.
The recession is a result of GOP neo-conservatives and the "religious right" declaring war on you, me, our families, ur friends, all of us.

There are more "big fish," the bigest is the "war" in Iraq.
This must be ended as soon as a stable governmneet is able to govern.
Same with Afghanistan, except that we must do what Bush neglected to do, clean out Al Qaeda.

The GOP Bush administration and Congresses left fine kettles of big fish to be cleaned. Your best bet is to support Mr. Obama, and his policies, write and call your representatives and ask them to do likewise.

Since: Jan 07

Turbotville, PA

#3 Dec 1, 2009
Real health care reform would involve tort reform, and the right to buy policies across state lines, instead of allowing some companies to pretty much have the whole market cornered the way the "Blues" do in PA. Insurance sompanies should be able to offer different options to people who do not require intensive medical care but also contain a catastrophic clause in the event of an unforeseen event.(Severe injury, or a heart attack as two examples) The states should also not be mandating extraordinary coverage that keeps the market sewn up for just a few companies.

The public option already exists in the form of Medicaid. I realize that there are doctors who will not take Medicaid patients but that is their choice.

Which brings me to my final thought: it's all about choice, which the government in its infinite paternalistic "wisdom", feels that it is responsible for making for us.

Should this health care bill pass, there will be further "lifestyle" restrictions. Back in the 90's when Clinton was going after the tobacco companies to increase the public coffers, there was some sort of Healthwatch segment every night about the damage that smokers were doing to themselves, everybody else, the environment and anything else that could be blamed on them.

Having pretty much killed the goose that laid that golden egg, we are seeing more and more clips of morbidly obese people struggling along, or eating voraciously and pretty much being labeled "Public Enemy #2", after the leprous smokers. THEY are the new target and poster children for our corpulant, self-indulgent selves who are costing everyone else money.

Despite its enormity, this health care bill does little to address practical matters, but instead has become bogged down in issues such as coverage for illegal aliens, cost for such a massive overhaul and the potential to reduce Medicare for the elderly which signals the beginning of health care rationing by age.

The inclusion of tax-supported abortions is important to many people, especially those like myself who have long regarded the termination of life before it begins a step toward the termination of life before its natural end. This is my own feeling, but I am afraid that the whole health care system will become a bureaucratic machine that will jusge one's worth, value or contribution to the collective, and instead of our traditional respect for the wisdom and experience of our older citizens, they will be determined by nameless, faceless buraeaucrats as candidates for the boneyard and given the nudge they need to get there.

IN all, the whole health care reform bill is, to me, one great big farcical effort to control the American people by setting dictatorial standards for lifestyles, appearance and age. Once you're over 55, you will hear the timeless words of Ebeneezer Scrooge coming from a bureaucrat's mouth, "They should die...and decrease the surplus population"

“Truth to Power!”

Since: Apr 07

Cordova, TN

#4 Dec 1, 2009
Mike wrote:
Healtcare reform is just another way our so called "communist leaders" continue to kick us why were down. I agree there are big problems with health care, however with the jobless rate, "planned" recession, this is not the right time to address it. If our "leaders" really gave a care about our people, they need to pull there heads out of their asses and get the bigger fish first.
Agree. Obama is a destructive POS for pushing this crap when he's Losing 1/2 Million Jobs a week.

Obama = Maggot

“Truth to Power!”

Since: Apr 07

Cordova, TN

#5 Dec 1, 2009
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, the Bush a <snip>
Obama is the President dumbarse. He has to be a big man and step up to the plate someday instead of hiding behind the previous admin or under his desk.

This is another sign that Obama is unfit to lead. He & his idiotbots cower at the job and cannot bring themselves to face the challenges head on. Only capable of blaming others as they borrow & spend the country deeper into the hole.

Obama = Maggot

“Truth to Power!”

Since: Apr 07

Cordova, TN

#6 Dec 1, 2009
No Child Left wrote:
Real health care reform would involve tort reform, and the right to buy policies across state lines, instead of allowing some companies to pretty much have the whole market cornered the way the "Blues" do in PA. Insurance sompanies should be able to offer different options to people who do not require intensive medical care but also contain a catastrophic clause in the event of an unforeseen event.(Severe injury, or a heart attack as two examples) The states should also not be mandating extraordinary coverage that keeps the market sewn up for just a few companies.

The public option already exists in the form of Medicaid. I realize that there are doctors who will not take Medicaid patients but that is their choice.

Which brings me to my final thought: it's all about choice, which the government in its infinite paternalistic "wisdom", feels that it is responsible for making for us.

Should this health care bill pass, there will be further "lifestyle" restrictions. Back in the 90's when Clinton was going after the tobacco companies to increase the public coffers, there was some sort of Healthwatch segment every night about the damage that smokers were doing to themselves, everybody else, the environment and anything else that could be blamed on them.

Having pretty much killed the goose that laid that golden egg, we are seeing more and more clips of morbidly obese people struggling along, or eating voraciously and pretty much being labeled "Public Enemy #2", after the leprous smokers. THEY are the new target and poster children for our corpulant, self-indulgent selves who are costing everyone else money.
Despite its enormity, this health care bill does little to address practical matters, but instead has become bogged down in issues such as coverage for illegal aliens, cost for such a massive overhaul and the potential to reduce Medicare for the elderly which signals the beginning of health care rationing by age.

The inclusion of tax-supported abortions is important to many people, especially those like myself who have long regarded the termination of life before it begins a step toward the termination of life before its natural end. This is my own feeling, but I am afraid that the whole health care system will become a bureaucratic machine that will jusge one's worth, value or contribution to the collective, and instead of our traditional respect for the wisdom and experience of our older citizens, they will be determined by nameless, faceless buraeaucrats as candidates for the boneyard and given the nudge they need to get there.

IN all, the whole health care reform bill is, to me, one great big farcical effort to control the American people by setting dictatorial standards for lifestyles, appearance and age. Once you're over 55, you will hear the timeless words of Ebeneezer Scrooge coming from a bureaucrat's mouth, "They should die...and decrease the surplus population"
Great Summary. I Agree.

This is a terrible piece of legislation written by the Worst Congress we've ever seen with the WORST Approval Ratings. The Worst President Obama is also working hand in hand with the Worst Congress on the language too. This is a real nation & job killer.

Just when you think they can't get any worse, they lower the bar again.
Family first

United States

#7 Dec 1, 2009
How about if every American buys the type of health care that they think their family deserves.
TASKMASTER

Sarasota, FL

#8 Dec 1, 2009
Its all about the LIFE of the Obama Administration.....Should this get Screwed up..they Are finished....been watching...They Talk .No one listens..the Action is not on the floor or ,TV..its in Back Rooms,Rest Rooms,Bed Rooms,and in the Bowels of the Senate Bldg..

Reid ,Like the Whore,and Mealy mouth worm he is..His Making deals,Bribing,Threatening,Cajo ling, and possibly oral manipulation if needed!/Its the VOTES!!....The Majority ,does not have it..they may very well get it,but in any case..We Get Screwed ......This will go on till next year...after a while ya get numb ...but all better believe its gonna cost ya!!

"We Are here From Your Government To Help you"".HA! HA! HA!!
Konnecticut_Bett er_Yet

Norwich, CT

#9 Dec 1, 2009
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, the Bush administration caused all the problems you list.
They were Marxist, but not Communists. The neo-conservative movement, with its roots in Marxism, has been a wolf in sheep's clothing fofr the USA.
The "big problems with health care" contribute to many other problems. Every day, hospitals are struggling, and dome failing, to stay open. Every hospital that closes,(and they are closing because of the "big problems with health care,") throws hundreds more workers on the streets; and degrades community lift severely.
If the GOP would only stop foot-dragging at each and every step, you would see progress at a more rapid rate.
The "planned recession" was not so much planned, as precipitated. The terrible damage to our economy by Bush's deregulation of financial instuments was designed to elimoinate the American middle-income group.
Look around.
He did just what he meant to do.
And guess what?
The (very) rich are getting richer.
The recession is a result of GOP neo-conservatives and the "religious right" declaring war on you, me, our families, ur friends, all of us.
There are more "big fish," the bigest is the "war" in Iraq.
This must be ended as soon as a stable governmneet is able to govern.
Same with Afghanistan, except that we must do what Bush neglected to do, clean out Al Qaeda.
The GOP Bush administration and Congresses left fine kettles of big fish to be cleaned. Your best bet is to support Mr. Obama, and his policies, write and call your representatives and ask them to do likewise.
Oh shut the hell up you little troll. This is obama's economy now. Obama promised to create jobs and rescue the economy, and it has been getting exponentially worse by the day under his administration. All we get is "duhhh...it would have been a lot worse if Obama didn't get his stimulus passed" with absolute no evidence whatsoever that the spending package saved, created or was rescued.Just the same empty blathering and excuses we've been getting.

And we don't need a health care overhaul. There are a few things that can be done like tort reform and opening up competition among states. And spare me your horseshit about how those theings "actually won't save much money" line, when the current plans will cause premiums and costs to skyrocket. It's not a "crisis." It's more fear mongering by the liberals.

But do keep up the bullshit, billy. The more you loons lie, the more credibility your joke party loses.

“Time to take back America”

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#10 Dec 1, 2009
Healthcare reform has nothing to do providing healthcare to more Americans. It has everything to do with redistributing wealth and the government also known as the Democratic party taking over 1/5 of our economy.

Obama and his insidious communist minions have to be stopped or they will destroy the republic. The anti capitalist Obama aims to be bring the US to it's knees and put us more on an even keel with the rest of the world after he destroys our dollar. Even if you are a liberal, if you value your freedom join the conservative resistance.
crayz ox0thogn

Nha Trang, Vietnam

#11 Dec 1, 2009
no fun!:(

Since: Dec 07

Ft Lauderdale

#12 Dec 2, 2009
Konnecticut_Better_Yet wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh shut the hell up you little troll. This is obama's economy now. Obama promised to create jobs and rescue the economy, and it has been getting exponentially worse by the day under his administration. All we get is "duhhh...it would have been a lot worse if Obama didn't get his stimulus passed" with absolute no evidence whatsoever that the spending package saved, created or was rescued.Just the same empty blathering and excuses we've been getting.
And we don't need a health care overhaul. There are a few things that can be done like tort reform and opening up competition among states. And spare me your horseshit about how those theings "actually won't save much money" line, when the current plans will cause premiums and costs to skyrocket. It's not a "crisis." It's more fear mongering by the liberals.
But do keep up the bullshit, billy. The more you loons lie, the more credibility your joke party loses.
I Agree. Good Posting.
Mike

Leonard, TX

#14 Dec 2, 2009
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, the Bush administration caused all the problems you list.
They were Marxist, but not Communists. The neo-conservative movement, with its roots in Marxism, has been a wolf in sheep's clothing fofr the USA.
The "big problems with health care" contribute to many other problems. Every day, hospitals are struggling, and dome failing, to stay open. Every hospital that closes,(and they are closing because of the "big problems with health care,") throws hundreds more workers on the streets; and degrades community lift severely.
If the GOP would only stop foot-dragging at each and every step, you would see progress at a more rapid rate.
The "planned recession" was not so much planned, as precipitated. The terrible damage to our economy by Bush's deregulation of financial instuments was designed to elimoinate the American middle-income group.
Look around.
He did just what he meant to do.
And guess what?
The (very) rich are getting richer.
The recession is a result of GOP neo-conservatives and the "religious right" declaring war on you, me, our families, ur friends, all of us.
There are more "big fish," the bigest is the "war" in Iraq.
This must be ended as soon as a stable governmneet is able to govern.
Same with Afghanistan, except that we must do what Bush neglected to do, clean out Al Qaeda.
The GOP Bush administration and Congresses left fine kettles of big fish to be cleaned. Your best bet is to support Mr. Obama, and his policies, write and call your representatives and ask them to do likewise.
And just remember, while your continue to blame Bush and the GOP and slap their hands, Obama is right behind your back with his hand in the cookie jar. And the libs are just grining ear to ear at your foolishness.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#15 Dec 2, 2009
No Child Left wrote:
Real health care reform would involve tort reform, and the right to buy policies across state lines, instead of allowing some companies to pretty much have the whole market cornered the way the "Blues" do in PA. Insurance sompanies should be able to offer different options to people who do not require intensive medical care but also contain a catastrophic clause in the event of an unforeseen event.(Severe injury, or a heart attack as two examples) The states should also not be mandating extraordinary coverage that keeps the market sewn up for just a few companies.
The public option already exists in the form of Medicaid. I realize that there are doctors who will not take Medicaid patients but that is their choice.
Which brings me to my final thought: it's all about choice, which the government in its infinite paternalistic "wisdom", feels that it is responsible for making for us.
Should this health care bill pass, there will be further "lifestyle" restrictions. Back in the 90's when Clinton was going after the tobacco companies to increase the public coffers, there was some sort of Healthwatch segment every night about the damage that smokers were doing to themselves, everybody else, the environment and anything else that could be blamed on them.
Having pretty much killed the goose that laid that golden egg, we are seeing more and more clips of morbidly obese people struggling along, or eating voraciously and pretty much being labeled "Public Enemy #2", after the leprous smokers. THEY are the new target and poster children for our corpulant, self-indulgent selves who are costing everyone else money.
Despite its enormity, this health care bill does little to address practical matters, but instead has become bogged down in issues such as coverage for illegal aliens, cost for such a massive overhaul and the potential to reduce Medicare for the elderly which signals the beginning of health care rationing by age.
The inclusion of tax-supported abortions is important to many people, especially those like myself who have long regarded the termination of life before it begins a step toward the termination of life before its natural end. This is my own feeling, but I am afraid that the whole health care system will become a bureaucratic machine that will jusge one's worth, value or contribution to the collective, and instead of our traditional respect for the wisdom and experience of our older citizens, they will be determined by nameless, faceless buraeaucrats as candidates for the boneyard and given the nudge they need to get there.
IN all, the whole health care reform bill is, to me, one great big farcical effort to control the American people by setting dictatorial standards for lifestyles, appearance and age. Once you're over 55, you will hear the timeless words of Ebeneezer Scrooge coming from a bureaucrat's mouth, "They should die...and decrease the surplus population"
NO.
What you are advocating is deregulation.

We saw, through the total disaster of the late Bush administration how corrosive deregulation can be in a society that prizes money above all else; no matter what pablum it mouths about spitiuality.

I find it ironic that a proponant of deregulation, would use that Dickens quote of Scrooge: "They should die...and decrease the surplus population..." as that would be the result of your proposal; along with uncontrolled price increases, service cuts, and yes; industry "death panels."

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#16 Dec 2, 2009
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>And just remember, while your continue to blame Bush and the GOP and slap their hands, Obama is right behind your back with his hand in the cookie jar. And the libs are just grining ear to ear at your foolishness.
Not true.
I blame the Bush administration for painting us into both fiscal and military corners, because of their gross incompetance, and their pursuit of their "neo-conservative" superstition.

President Obama has been managing Bush's damage; both upon our economy and our military and military options; but the HEALTH CARE FINANCE responsibility will be all his.

Prsident Bush left no cookie jar for Obama to raid; as Bush not only emptied it; he broke the jar.

And, I don't see anyone but people like you grinning as our nation faces grave dangers with sharply reduced resources.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#17 Dec 2, 2009
sandman21 wrote:
Healthcare reform has nothing to do providing healthcare to more Americans. It has everything to do with redistributing wealth and the government also known as the Democratic party taking over 1/5 of our economy.
Obama and his insidious communist minions have to be stopped or they will destroy the republic. The anti capitalist Obama aims to be bring the US to it's knees and put us more on an even keel with the rest of the world after he destroys our dollar. Even if you are a liberal, if you value your freedom join the conservative resistance.
You are too late.

The redistributing of America's wealth had already happened during the Bush administration.
They got mine. And they got some of most Americans' wealth concentrated up to the top 3% of our wealthy.

Also, they succeeded in lowering our quality and youths' participation in higher education. Today's high school and college students will be far more ignorant than their parents when they finish their education.

“Time to take back America”

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#18 Dec 2, 2009
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
You are too late.
The redistributing of America's wealth had already happened during the Bush administration.
They got mine. And they got some of most Americans' wealth concentrated up to the top 3% of our wealthy.
Also, they succeeded in lowering our quality and youths' participation in higher education. Today's high school and college students will be far more ignorant than their parents when they finish their education.
I wouldn't completely disagree with your post. However past transgressions of previous administrations have nothing to do with the complete and utter fleecing we are receiving now. Fascism is defined as a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Notice the term "regimenting all industry".

The left makes me laugh when they accuse the right of being fascist.

This healthcare debacle along with the great swindle of cap and trade legislation is the holy grail to the left. They know in 2010 they will not have the numbers to accomplish thwarting our constitution of limited government intervention into the lives of it's people. Our recession will turn into a depression if the socialists pass all of this tyrannical legislation.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#19 Dec 2, 2009
sandman21 wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't completely disagree with your post. However past transgressions of previous administrations have nothing to do with the complete and utter fleecing we are receiving now. Fascism is defined as a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
Notice the term "regimenting all industry".
The left makes me laugh when they accuse the right of being fascist.
This healthcare debacle along with the great swindle of cap and trade legislation is the holy grail to the left. They know in 2010 they will not have the numbers to accomplish thwarting our constitution of limited government intervention into the lives of it's people. Our recession will turn into a depression if the socialists pass all of this tyrannical legislation.
I'm sorry that you feel threatened.

Think of what you are afraid of:
"...a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."

That is not what is happening here. Not at all. Were it so, We might meet in the trenches.

What we are doing now is moving, as a people, into the 21st Century.
We are reacting to a very opportunistic, greedy, and incompetant previous administration. The total loss of control of regulation was the hallmark of our failure for the last eight years, Think: WE need a regulated capitalism to work with our Democratic Republic.
That is the only way it will stay in balance.

Our Corporations need regulation FAR MORE than we individuals need the Ten Commandments. We have an inbred sense of wrong and right.

"Industry" has no such sense. The only right for a corporation is maximized profit in the next quarter. Polution, free enterprise and competition, decency to workers and community, fairness, honesty, commitment, all go out the corporate window without regulation.

The terms "left" and 'right' have lost all meaning in our society. I am so far right, I seem liberal to most people.
What we now call our "right" is actually a combination of theocrats and lilly-livered Marxists.

Our greatest 'Christians' are all rich bastards; snd few Christians today even 'get' Jesus.

Our fellow citizens are twisted with hate, they hate the poor, the homosexualists, the blacks, the Mexicans, the truly free.

Our country is a continuing experiment in Democracy. Don't turn your back when she needs you the most; and don't forget what she REALLY stands for.
Konnecticut_Bett er_Yet

Norwich, CT

#20 Dec 2, 2009
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry that you feel threatened.
Think of what you are afraid of:
"...a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."
That is not what is happening here. Not at all. Were it so, We might meet in the trenches.
What we are doing now is moving, as a people, into the 21st Century.
We are reacting to a very opportunistic, greedy, and incompetant previous administration. The total loss of control of regulation was the hallmark of our failure for the last eight years, Think: WE need a regulated capitalism to work with our Democratic Republic.
That is the only way it will stay in balance.
Our Corporations need regulation FAR MORE than we individuals need the Ten Commandments. We have an inbred sense of wrong and right.
"Industry" has no such sense. The only right for a corporation is maximized profit in the next quarter. Polution, free enterprise and competition, decency to workers and community, fairness, honesty, commitment, all go out the corporate window without regulation.
The terms "left" and 'right' have lost all meaning in our society. I am so far right, I seem liberal to most people.
What we now call our "right" is actually a combination of theocrats and lilly-livered Marxists.
Our greatest 'Christians' are all rich bastards; snd few Christians today even 'get' Jesus.
Our fellow citizens are twisted with hate, they hate the poor, the homosexualists, the blacks, the Mexicans, the truly free.
Our country is a continuing experiment in Democracy. Don't turn your back when she needs you the most; and don't forget what she REALLY stands for.
Each day, you took one step closer towards the edge. Now you are over it, in free fall. You are out of your mind.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#21 Dec 2, 2009
Konnecticut_Better_Yet wrote:
<quoted text>
Each day, you took one step closer towards the edge. Now you are over it, in free fall. You are out of your mind.
I love my country; what's your excuse?
Your Demented paranoia is not an excuse.

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