Mormon Leaders Take on Marriage Equality in Hawaii

There are 141 comments on the EDGE story from Sep 20, 2013, titled Mormon Leaders Take on Marriage Equality in Hawaii. In it, EDGE reports that:

Although leaders from the Mormon Church have remained out of the gay marriage debate in a number of states as of late, they have recently resurfaced to take on the marriage equality battle in Hawaii, the Salt Lake Tribune reports.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EDGE.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#50 Oct 14, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
God does not approve of homosexuality:
Jesus, God incarnate, did not approve of judging others. He also said love your neighbor as yourself. When you pick and choose from the Old Testament and ignore the word of the living God, you aren't being a very good Christian. If God thought the world was so screwed up that he needed to come down here in human form, and he thought that homosexuality was of core importance, don't you think that once in 33 years, he might mention it?
Don Joe

Minneapolis, MN

#51 Oct 14, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
So the mormons still think they can make binding laws for the 95% of Hawaiians who are NOT mormons
.
Has anyone reminded those soaring morons lately that churches; both real and fake ones; are required to FOLLOW the law; not allowed to make the law?
I disagree. Laws are written by lobbyists and paid for by whomever is rich enough to hire the lobbyists, and pay to elected so called representatives. The mormon church is exceedingly wealthy and apparently willing to buy politicians and lobbyists; therefore they can make the law.

If you don't like it, then help work to change that system.
onefour1

Eagle Mountain, UT

#52 Oct 15, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus, God incarnate, did not approve of judging others. He also said love your neighbor as yourself. When you pick and choose from the Old Testament and ignore the word of the living God, you aren't being a very good Christian. If God thought the world was so screwed up that he needed to come down here in human form, and he thought that homosexuality was of core importance, don't you think that once in 33 years, he might mention it?
God is the judge of all so how could he not approve of it on his own behalf? He is the great law giver and it is he that created the laws of which I posted. The last verse of which I quoted was from the New Testament. The Apostle Paul, who was called by God directly taught against homosexuality. He was personally acquainted with Jesus Christ for it was Christ who visited him and called him unto repentance. Jesus taught us in his gospels that we should repent. He is the judge of us all and has set the law by which we should follow. If we aren't following his commandments, it is his will that we repent of our sins and follow after him. It is not the will of God that we be accepting of sin. He has made it quite clear in the bible that homosexuality is not just a sin but an abomination. Do you think he wants us to commit abominations? No certainly not. He wants us to repent of sin and come unto him. When there is a great division of the wheat and tares do you suppose that those who commit abomination will be among the wheat and not the tares? Did not Jesus send his disciples into the world to call the world unto repentance? Is it a greater sin to tell others what is in the bible in hopes that they might repent than to commit an abomination. Is it not showing love to your fellow man to let them know the world of God in hopes that they might repent and be saved from the destruction that will come upon the tares? God is love and God is the giver of the law in both the old and New Testament. It is his will that we repent and keep his commandments. Jesus came not to do away with the law but to fulfill the law. Where did he ever change the law regarding homosexuality? Jesus is the great I AM. It was he that established the laws of the Old Testament. It is an act of love to spread the word of God and try to lead your neighbor toward the path of righteousness which the Lord Jesus established. Yes, we are all sinners but it is still important that we try to help each other to follow God and not accept sin as a good thing in life. Along with homosexuality, adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, not honoring your father or mother, not keeping the sabbath day holy, taking the Lord's name in vain, murder, etc are all things that if we are taking part in them, then we should repent.

homosexuality is a sin. I speak out against it and hope that anyone caught up in it will repent and be made free of its destructive nature. You call it judging others. I call it an act of love to bring my fellow beings closer to the Lord. My previous post tells us that it is a sin. There is no doubt that it is not the will of the Lord that we partake of it.

1 Corinthians 11:11
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

Let us come unto Christ and be saved.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#53 Oct 16, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
God is the judge of all so how could he not approve of it on his own behalf?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

It appears that you fall flat on both the religious and legal fronts.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#54 Oct 16, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
God does not approve of homosexuality:
Leviticus 18:22
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:18-32
18 For the awrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, bwho chold the truth in dunrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest ain them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the ainvisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his beternal cpower and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were athankful; but became bvain in their imaginations, and their cfoolish heart was ddarkened.
22 Professing themselves to be awise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the auncorruptible God into an bimage made like to ccorruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also agave them up to buncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God agave them up unto bvile caffections: for even their dwomen did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their alust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to aretain God in their knowledge, God bgave them over to a creprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, awickedness, covetousness, bmaliciousness; full of envy, murder, cdebate, ddeceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 aBackbiters, haters of God, bdespiteful, cproud, dboasters, inventors of evil things, edisobedient to parents,
31 Without aunderstanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of adeath, not only do the same, but bhave cpleasure in them that do them.
Odd, the only anti gay quotes are from Leviticus. What's a good Christian like YOU doing, reading the OLD Testament? Why aren't you following the Christian bible? Oh, that's right Jesus never said ONE word about gay sex, did He? No wonder you're trying so hard to find something negative.
onefour1

Eagle Mountain, UT

#55 Oct 17, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
It appears that you fall flat on both the religious and legal fronts.
Our constitution limits congress but not the people from establishing religion. And I don't have to judge others but only warn them of the impending judgements of God which shall fall on them if they do not repent.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#56 Oct 17, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
Our constitution limits congress but not the people from establishing religion. And I don't have to judge others but only warn them of the impending judgements of God which shall fall on them if they do not repent.
Yeah, the people can't make laws, that's a task for the legislature. Even if the people could make the law, it wouldn't matter. Do you know why? Because the 1st Amendment would still apply. Because if a law is enacted respecting one religion, it violates the free exercise of all others.

What's your next argument?
onefour1

Eagle Mountain, UT

#57 Oct 17, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Odd, the only anti gay quotes are from Leviticus. What's a good Christian like YOU doing, reading the OLD Testament? Why aren't you following the Christian bible? Oh, that's right Jesus never said ONE word about gay sex, did He? No wonder you're trying so hard to find something negative.
Last time I checked, Romans was part of the New Testament. The majority of my post was from the New Testament. The Apostle Paul, a man chosen by Christ himself to preach his gospel saw fit to condemned homosexuality. Do think Christ did not believe what was revealed in the Old Testament? Christ was the God of the Old Testament. It was through him that the law against homosexuality was given. God, who gave Moses the law, was known as I AM. Here is what Christ taught while on the earth:

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#58 Oct 17, 2013
fr onefour1:

>...And I don't have to judge others but only warn them of the impending judgements of God which shall fall on them if they do not repent.<

Yes, you ARE judging. "Judge not, lest YE be judged", is in the Bible.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#59 Oct 17, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Last time I checked, Romans was part of the New Testament. The majority of my post was from the New Testament. The Apostle Paul, a man chosen by Christ himself to preach his gospel saw fit to condemned homosexuality. Do think Christ did not believe what was revealed in the Old Testament? Christ was the God of the Old Testament. It was through him that the law against homosexuality was given. God, who gave Moses the law, was known as I AM. Here is what Christ taught while on the earth:
John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
And none of your post quoted Jesus Christ, the religion's namesake. Perhaps, because he said nothing about homosexuality.

Don't you find it odd that God incarnate would return to earth and not address such an obviously important question? Or, perhaps, maybe it's not so imporant?
onefour1

Eagle Mountain, UT

#60 Oct 17, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, the people can't make laws, that's a task for the legislature. Even if the people could make the law, it wouldn't matter. Do you know why? Because the 1st Amendment would still apply. Because if a law is enacted respecting one religion, it violates the free exercise of all others.
What's your next argument?
We have the right to assemble and peacably study the word of God. We have the right of free speech to warn each other and teach each other the word of God. We have the right to freely believe what we may and exercise our religious beliefs.

AMENDMENT I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

We don't need a law to institute a state religion. We are free to form our own religion under the constitution. We are free to express our religious beliefs. I choose to express my Christian beliefs. I show others what is in the bible regarding the will of God and let them choose freely to believe it or not. It is not my words that I teach but God's words. The bible teaches that we will all be judged according to our works here in this life. Is it not a good thing to warn others of this judgement and teach them that through Christ repentance is at hand and forgiveness of sin is free for the taking? If we learn to listen to God and seek to do his will, we can be forgiven and the Lord will not remember past sins that have been repented of. But if we do not repent, we will be subjected to his judgement as to whether we are good or evil. May we all love the Lord and seek after him while there is still time.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#61 Oct 17, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Last time I checked, Romans was part of the New Testament. The majority of my post was from the New Testament. The Apostle Paul, a man chosen by Christ himself to preach his gospel saw fit to condemned homosexuality. Do think Christ did not believe what was revealed in the Old Testament? Christ was the God of the Old Testament. It was through him that the law against homosexuality was given. God, who gave Moses the law, was known as I AM. Here is what Christ taught while on the earth:
John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Saul was a blatant plagiarist of Plato, the Stoics, and Philo of Alexandria, an exaggerator (liar), self-aggrandizer (prideful liar), apostate, and a heretic.

SHEESH!
onefour1

Eagle Mountain, UT

#62 Oct 17, 2013
Pattysboi wrote:
fr onefour1:
>...And I don't have to judge others but only warn them of the impending judgements of God which shall fall on them if they do not repent.<
Yes, you ARE judging. "Judge not, lest YE be judged", is in the Bible.
Why would Jesus Christ send his diciples into the world to preach repentance if they were taught not to judge others? The reason is that it is not passing judgement to spread the word of God and preach repentance. It is the will of God and for this reason he sent them into all the world to preach the gospel of repentance.

Mark 16:15-16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark 1:15
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
onefour1

Eagle Mountain, UT

#63 Oct 17, 2013
[QUOTE who="onefour1]onefour1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Last time I checked, Romans was part of the New Testament. The majority of my post was from the New Testament. The Apostle Paul, a man chosen by Christ himself to preach his gospel saw fit to condemned homosexuality. Do think Christ did not believe what was revealed in the Old Testament? Christ was the God of the Old Testament. It was through him that the law against homosexuality was given. God, who gave Moses the law, was known as I AM. Here is what Christ taught while on the earth:
John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
And none of your post quoted Jesus Christ, the religion's namesake. Perhaps, because he said nothing about homosexuality.

Don't you find it odd that God incarnate would return to earth and not address such an obviously important question? Or, perhaps, maybe it's not so imporant?[/QUOTE]
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
And none of your post quoted Jesus Christ, the religion's namesake. Perhaps, because he said nothing about homosexuality.
Don't you find it odd that God incarnate would return to earth and not address such an obviously important question? Or, perhaps, maybe it's not so imporant?
Christ was the great I AM who gave the Law to Moses as written in the Book of Leviticus.

Exodus 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

Leviticus 18:1-2
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the Lord your God.

Isaiah 43:11
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4
4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

These verses tell us that Jesus was the Great I AM who spoke to Moses and gave him the law of which he condemned homosexuality. He is the Lord our God, the God of the Old and New Testament.
onefour1

Eagle Mountain, UT

#64 Oct 17, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Saul was a blatant plagiarist of Plato, the Stoics, and Philo of Alexandria, an exaggerator (liar), self-aggrandizer (prideful liar), apostate, and a heretic.
SHEESH!
Paul was an Apostle of Jesus Christ who was one of the greatest of all missionaries for the Church of Jesus Christ. He was recognized by all the other Apostles as an ordained minister of the gospel and was in full fellowship with all the saints. His teachings were the word of the Lord and I have no doubt he will be found on the right had of the Lord in heaven.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#65 Oct 17, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul was an Apostle of Jesus Christ who was one of the greatest of all missionaries for the Church of Jesus Christ. He was recognized by all the other Apostles as an ordained minister of the gospel and was in full fellowship with all the saints. His teachings were the word of the Lord and I have no doubt he will be found on the right had of the Lord in heaven.
The ONLY one who claimed so was Saul himself, as recorded by his gentile follower, Luke".

Saul was censured by the Jerusalem community, which he spun as some kind of victory.

Compare:

Acts 15: 20, 29 and 21:25

with the information here:

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/9679-l...

and here:

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12391-...

These show that what diaspora pharisee Saul's gentile pet Luke was touting as a victory, was nothing more than the reassertion of prevalent teachings about relations with gentiles then in existence for some time.

Here's another, much easier to read discussion of Saul's teachings:

http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2004/...

There's no spin involved in the above. None is needed. A simple side-by-side comparison of the texts shows the origins of the thoughts. It is presumed that Saul became acquainted with the texts during his university education to become a lawyer (koine slang: "tentmaker"), completion of which was the source of his Roman citizenship.

More discussion:

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13232-...

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#66 Oct 17, 2013
Now ... if you want to assert that Plato, the Stoics and Philo were all prophets of the Father, then I really want to see your evidence and proofs.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#67 Oct 18, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
<quoted text>
.. The Apostle Paul, a man chosen by Christ himself to preach his gospel saw fit to condemned homosexuality. Do think Christ did not believe what was revealed in the Old Testament?......
Jesus never met Paul.

And why would God create so many people who do not have the ability to be attracted to the opposite gender, if such a God-given trait condemned by Him?

My God is not a psychopath. Yours seems to be.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#68 Oct 18, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
<quoted text>
We have the right to assemble and peacably study the word of God. We have the right of free speech to warn each other and teach each other the word of God. We have the right to freely believe what we may and exercise our religious beliefs.
......
Of course you do.

What you can't do is use those religious beliefs to create laws that strip away basic civil and human rights from other Americans, with no valid state interest in said laws.

When you do that, you lose in court.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#69 Oct 18, 2013
onefour1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would Jesus Christ send his diciples into the world to preach repentance if they were taught not to judge others? The reason is that it is not passing judgement to spread the word of God and preach repentance.......
Speck, meet plank.

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