Border Predators

There are 20 comments on the www.defensenews.com story from Sep 26, 2010, titled Border Predators. In it, www.defensenews.com reports that:

Even from 19,000 feet up, the synthetic aperture radar on the .defensenews.com/ UAV can detect tire tracks, footprints, even a quarter-inch-wide cut someone made trying to slice through the tall steel wall that separates the U.S. from Mexico along parts of the Southwest border.

Sunday September 26th 2010 defensenews.com

Reported by Defense News

Although the U.S Military's Predator is capable of finding the smallest heat signature it's high tech sensors may have problems with identifying score under certain circumstances..

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.defensenews.com.

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“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

Since: Dec 06

United States of America

#1 Sep 26, 2010
If a Predator cost's $4.5 million and the government has allotted $32 million to purchase Predators, why are they only buying two Predators? Where is the other $23 million going? Even with the ability to avoid other aircraft added, the Predator would cost $10 million each and that would leave $12 million, where would it be going?
More government accounting to line someones pockets?

Since: Dec 06

Chicago IL

#2 Sep 26, 2010
Twinks
In this case may be the method on how it's used..
Down and Out

New York, NY

#4 Sep 27, 2010
NON COMPLACENT TWINK - Not here to debate the missing money or costs - that speaks for itself.
My concern is this - Using the Predator technology in a way that enhances border security. The sensors and radar can detect minute details no doubt, but without boots on the ground (armed military troops on patrol) to respond to incursions and detain the illegal border crossers what we have here is only a show of technical superiority that does nothing to curtail the incursions across the border.
The Predator by itself has little use, on our border, other than detection, without the human element being used with boots on the ground to detain or fill the air with ammunition this is another dog and pony show for effect only.
Your thoughts?

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

Since: Dec 06

United States of America

#5 Sep 27, 2010
Down and Out wrote:
NON COMPLACENT TWINK - Not here to debate the missing money or costs - that speaks for itself.
My concern is this - Using the Predator technology in a way that enhances border security. The sensors and radar can detect minute details no doubt, but without boots on the ground (armed military troops on patrol) to respond to incursions and detain the illegal border crossers what we have here is only a show of technical superiority that does nothing to curtail the incursions across the border.
The Predator by itself has little use, on our border, other than detection, without the human element being used with boots on the ground to detain or fill the air with ammunition this is another dog and pony show for effect only.
Your thoughts?
I agree that more boots on the ground are needed but the Predators are useful in letting those boots know that what has been spotted is not a threat but an animal. Multiple trips out to check on what turns out to be an animal crossing could be a huge waste of man power. Needless to say, they cannot stop a drug trafficker or make an arrest.
I do think they are a very useful tool for the border patrol but the cost was the first thing that hit my eye because our government is so wasteful and never seems to account for all the monies alloted for a specific cause.
morons united

Bellevue, WA

#6 Sep 27, 2010
RadicalTim wrote:
Twinks
In this case may be the method on how it's used..
It requires intensive training relating with procedures and there may be meetings with free coffee and donuts.
Down and Out

New York, NY

#7 Sep 27, 2010
NON COMPLACENT TWINK - You know, for a self described "Little Old Lady" you have great wisdom and know quite a lot!! Were you in the military or law enforcement at some time?
We appear to agree that the Predator used in conjunction with troops/law enforcement on the ground could be a viable means of detention and deportation.
Without some thought put into the deployment of the Predator I fear this will be another "Grandstand" play to grab at headlines only.
The Predator has great potential to DETECT, it cannot by itself pursue the border incursions much less detain or arrest the poeple involved with the incursions.
racer42

San Leandro, CA

#8 Sep 27, 2010
Down and Out wrote:
NON COMPLACENT TWINK - You know, for a self described "Little Old Lady" you have great wisdom and know quite a lot!! Were you in the military or law enforcement at some time?
We appear to agree that the Predator used in conjunction with troops/law enforcement on the ground could be a viable means of detention and deportation.
Without some thought put into the deployment of the Predator I fear this will be another "Grandstand" play to grab at headlines only.
The Predator has great potential to DETECT, it cannot by itself pursue the border incursions much less detain or arrest the poeple involved with the incursions.
Doesn't the Predator have missle racks????

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

Since: Dec 06

United States of America

#9 Sep 27, 2010
Down and Out wrote:
NON COMPLACENT TWINK - You know, for a self described "Little Old Lady" you have great wisdom and know quite a lot!! Were you in the military or law enforcement at some time?
We appear to agree that the Predator used in conjunction with troops/law enforcement on the ground could be a viable means of detention and deportation.
Without some thought put into the deployment of the Predator I fear this will be another "Grandstand" play to grab at headlines only.
The Predator has great potential to DETECT, it cannot by itself pursue the border incursions much less detain or arrest the poeple involved with the incursions.
I've never served in the Military but my dad was a United States Airforce pilot for over 33 years. My Uncles and one aunt served in WWII and Korea, My husband was a POW in Korea, one brother served in Korea and Viet Nam and all my cousins served in Viet Nam.
I even had relatives in the Revolutionary war and the Civil War (great grandfather). Maybe some of it rubbed off.:)
I also have a great many friends who are in Law Enforcement and some who are EMT's, but again, I've never served in Law Enforcement. I have had quite a few dealings with the courts and judicial system and am now handling several very large lawsuits for my oldest son and for my daughter who is deceased.
By handling, I do not mean that I am an attorney, but only that I have been dealing with this for several years and have learned quite a bit about the law.
My grandmother who raised me was the first person in the United States to sue for my Uncles Military insurance and she won her case. It took 7 years and 3 attorneys but she refused to give up. When she died in 1973, she had a box full of letters from people asking how she accomplished it.
All my knowledge and experience comes from living and learning from everything I get involved in and the fact that I do a lot of research on a lot of issues.
Thanks for a very nice compliment.
Down and Out

New York, NY

#10 Sep 27, 2010
racer42 - Yes, the Predator has the ability to launch missles but consider this - a launch within US airspace onto US soil percepitates a serious set of questions, not the least being "Is there an absolutely positive ID of the intruders and what is the possibility of collateral damage?" Remember this is US soil and not a declared combat area!

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

Since: Dec 06

United States of America

#11 Sep 27, 2010
racer42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't the Predator have missle racks????
Yes, but I don't know which one they are using and if they spot someone in the desert, they have no way of knowing who that person is. It could be a border patrolman, a citizen or an illegal who is lost, or a drug smuggler. It would not be advisable in my opinion for them to use those missiles against anyone in a border patrol situation.

RQ-1 Predator is a long-endurance, medium-altitude unmanned aircraft system for surveillance and reconnaissance missions. Surveillance imagery from synthetic aperture radar, video cameras and a forward-looking infrared (FLIR) can be distributed in real-time both to the front line soldier and to the operational commander, or worldwide in real-time via satellite communication links. MQ-1, armed with AGM-114 Hellfire missiles, is the multi-role version which is used for armed reconnaissance and interdiction.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/p...

http://www.google.com/search...
racer42

San Leandro, CA

#12 Sep 27, 2010
Down and Out wrote:
racer42 - Yes, the Predator has the ability to launch missles but consider this - a launch within US airspace onto US soil percepitates a serious set of questions, not the least being "Is there an absolutely positive ID of the intruders and what is the possibility of collateral damage?" Remember this is US soil and not a declared combat area!
Actually (and I should have said so in the original post) this was a rhetorical question and I certainly wouldn't advocate using missiles to secure the border. Although, it might be useful using them against the armed drug smugglers and the lookout they have posted on mt. peaks in southern Arizona.
racer42

San Leandro, CA

#13 Sep 27, 2010
Down and Out wrote:
racer42 - Yes, the Predator has the ability to launch missles but consider this - a launch within US airspace onto US soil percepitates a serious set of questions, not the least being "Is there an absolutely positive ID of the intruders and what is the possibility of collateral damage?" Remember this is US soil and not a declared combat area!
A10s out of Davis - Monthan would probably do just as well against the drug smugglers and the lookouts they post on the mt. peaks in Southern Arizona. I'm sure they could use FACs to do the targeting.
Down and Out

New York, NY

#14 Sep 27, 2010
NON COMPLACENT TWINK - You are blessed beyond measure with strong virtues and a strong bloodline!!
Being retired (and tired) after 24 years service in the Air Force please let me say "Thank You" for all the service and duty your family has given to the nation. Patriots dating back to the Revolutionary War, no wonder you have an ample supply of "Grit" about you. I think it certainly did rub off!
Stand strong and continue to deliver your thoughts, opinions and dialog on these threads.
Down and Out

New York, NY

#15 Sep 27, 2010
racer42 - Thanks for that clarification about the missles, I had a feeling you were not entirely serious about launching them along the border.

As to the A-10s from D/M, IMO the current circumstances would have to escalate by a wide margin before consideration be given to this move. I still advocate boots on the ground - about 120,000 armed troops from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico on constant patrol accompanied by federal ICE agents with the authority to detain, arrest or just plain drop kick their arses back across the border into Mexihole. Also, finish the wall or whatever barrier to seperate us from Mexihole.
racer42

San Leandro, CA

#16 Sep 27, 2010
Down and Out wrote:
racer42 - Thanks for that clarification about the missles, I had a feeling you were not entirely serious about launching them along the border.
As to the A-10s from D/M, IMO the current circumstances would have to escalate by a wide margin before consideration be given to this move. I still advocate boots on the ground - about 120,000 armed troops from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico on constant patrol accompanied by federal ICE agents with the authority to detain, arrest or just plain drop kick their arses back across the border into Mexihole. Also, finish the wall or whatever barrier to seperate us from Mexihole.
Sounds like a plan to me. That would be the best idea. The only reason I mentioned DM is that I was stationed for a time during Viet Nam as a Phantom Phixer.

Since: Dec 06

Chicago IL

#17 Sep 27, 2010
morons united wrote:
<quoted text> It requires intensive training relating with procedures and there may be meetings with free coffee and donuts.
I agree , time to put regular military on it.
Leave the other to some local police.......
T
Down and Out

New York, NY

#18 Sep 27, 2010
racer42 - Dude,(or dudette) I was also stationed at D/M, middle to late 70's. Thanks for your service racer42, what did you phix on the phantoms?
racer42

San Leandro, CA

#19 Sep 27, 2010
Dude will do just fine. 301X0, Airborne Radio Repair. Got a couple of backseat rides in the F4. Much more fun to fly than it was to work on. I was there 1966 to 1969 (except for some detached duty which I'm not allowed to discuss).

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

Since: Dec 06

United States of America

#20 Sep 27, 2010
Down and Out wrote:
NON COMPLACENT TWINK - You are blessed beyond measure with strong virtues and a strong bloodline!!
Being retired (and tired) after 24 years service in the Air Force please let me say "Thank You" for all the service and duty your family has given to the nation. Patriots dating back to the Revolutionary War, no wonder you have an ample supply of "Grit" about you. I think it certainly did rub off!
Stand strong and continue to deliver your thoughts, opinions and dialog on these threads.
Thank you again for the compliments. I do a lot of volunteer work with the VFW when they have functions like flag retirement and dinners for the families of the fallen. I love to cook and they always appreciate my bringing lots of good food.
At a recent flag retirement ceremony, one of the Vets from the Korean war talked about the two best friends he lost over there and he still gets choked up talking about them. Makes you appreciate those who have served when you know a little about them.
I thank both you and racer for your service and wish you both the best.
racer42

San Leandro, CA

#21 Sep 27, 2010
NON COMPLACENT TWINK wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you again for the compliments. I do a lot of volunteer work with the VFW when they have functions like flag retirement and dinners for the families of the fallen. I love to cook and they always appreciate my bringing lots of good food.
At a recent flag retirement ceremony, one of the Vets from the Korean war talked about the two best friends he lost over there and he still gets choked up talking about them. Makes you appreciate those who have served when you know a little about them.
I thank both you and racer for your service and wish you both the best.
thanks, I really appreciate that.

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