GOP investigators fault five ATF officials in gun-tracking fiasco

Jul 31, 2012 Full story: www.latimes.com 29

Republican congressional investigators have concluded that five senior ATF officials - including the special agent in charge of the Phoenix field office and the bureau's top man in Washington - were responsible for the failed Fast and Furious gun-tracking operation that was "marred by missteps, poor judgments and inherently reckless strategy." In a ... (more)

Full Story
First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Robert

Hollywood, FL

#21 Aug 1, 2012
El Chingon wrote:
The really truly evil and hideous crime, that has taken tens of thousands of human lives, and caused a mass exodus of a country the likes of which have not been seen since the evacuation of Rwanda, is the insatiable American craving for illicit drugs.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2012-07-26/new...
Remove the demand, and issues like F&F won't exist. F&F is just a gnat on the elephants azz.
Drugs don't kill money does.
People are not fighting over drugs but over the illegal money the drugs bring, legalize the drugs and you kill the damand to supply them from illegal sources. Nobody is going to fight over something everyone can grow in their back yard. People just don't kill each other over the tomato crop.
Concerned

Mexico

#22 Aug 1, 2012
El Chingon wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry for cutting some of your post out cuz I'm limited on what I can post.
Did you read the article in the link. IMO, the case is made that the violence in Mexico is a direct result of American thirst for illicit drugs. The "hot" drug of choice now is meth. I find it hard to believe that meth is a drug of choice for the upper class as you seem to suggest.
If drugs are an ancient part of mankind's history, then why is it that, aside from political violence, no other country is approaching the level of violence that has enveloped Mexico.?
Interesting to note that I just a read a hard copy of Christian Science Monitor that reports that there is an growing effort in South American to legalize drugs as you suggest. I understand that even your president attended one of the get togethers. This then begs the question: What happens when meth is legal in, say Mexico, but still illegal in America?
That would be an interesting dilemma, yes?
You would be surprised ho many wealthy people try and then get hooked on meth. That is the problem. These people are all looking for a new and better high. I had a friend that had a business that had a $150,000 a year income. He tried the meth at the advice of a friend as he was working so many hours and was running on fumes. It worked as he was working longer hours and he seemed to not need as much sleep. But the effects start to reverse themselves as the body is being used up rapidly. You see people age much faster and organs and even teeth and bones are effected. But people smoke knowing it will kill them. They drink and drive. So Meth is just another drug.

Fortunately he is now no longer doing drugs. His son was also doing meth. When the father asked to pay him back for the money he used to buy the drugs his son hit him on the back of the head, when he fell to the ground he then started to choke his own father. It was amazing that my friend stopped cold turkey and has changed his life around.

I have seen some of the videos of these drug dealers and hit-men. They keep them drugged up so they loose their moral levels. I watched the video of the massacre in Creel Mexico. The sicarios or hit-men killed 8 people. You can see the leader giving the hits of cocaine out of his car and then sending them across the field with the guns and start shooting people. The problem was they were killing innocent people.

Nobody kills their competition so that they can make more money. Especially at the rate these guys are. Look at what is going on in Africa. Did you see the movie blood diamond. They kept them all drugged up and slowly took away there souls. This is what they do here. It is much easier if they are poor and have not had much to look forward to. there is so much money being made in the drug business that they do not need to kill each other for it. But this is a choice they made.

Just like the gangs in the USA. They are like animals of the lower forms. Not the intelligent human forms that are supposed to be the top of the food chain. They have territory and they defend it. It is all imaginary. Because they really own nothing.

Again if you look at demographics and people. No matter if they are White, Brown or black it usually comes down to education and poverty.
El Chingon

United States

#23 Aug 2, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
Drugs don't kill money does.
People are not fighting over drugs but over the illegal money the drugs bring, legalize the drugs and you kill the damand to supply them from illegal sources. Nobody is going to fight over something everyone can grow in their back yard. People just don't kill each other over the tomato crop.
From what I read, you are correct in one respect in that, growers of marijuana in the US, primarily in California, have taken a big bite out of the MJ business of Mexican cartels. However, the link that I posted indicates, to me, that they've shifted production to meth. Hypothetically speaking, if meth were quasi-legalized like MJ (never happen, but suppose), then what will be their next focus?
Concerned

Mexico

#24 Aug 2, 2012
El Chingon wrote:
<quoted text>
From what I read, you are correct in one respect in that, growers of marijuana in the US, primarily in California, have taken a big bite out of the MJ business of Mexican cartels. However, the link that I posted indicates, to me, that they've shifted production to meth. Hypothetically speaking, if meth were quasi-legalized like MJ (never happen, but suppose), then what will be their next focus?
I have been following the huge busts of people on State and federal lands in California, and other states. The huge majority are actually cartel members growing it in the USA. It is not effecting the cartel members in the USA. In fact it is helping the cartels as they are the ones reaping the heavy profits from the grows.

http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/federa...
El Chingon

United States

#25 Aug 2, 2012
Concerned wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been following the huge busts of people on State and federal lands in California, and other states. The huge majority are actually cartel members growing it in the USA. It is not effecting the cartel members in the USA. In fact it is helping the cartels as they are the ones reaping the heavy profits from the grows.
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/federa...
I think this paragraph below, from your link sums up the dubious nature of the supposed "link" between California-grown pot and Mexican cartels. I'm thinking the US authorities involved (eg Forest Service, etc) are probably playing up this supposed connection in order to up their fundings. A standard practice among government types.

"While federal officials suspect that Mexican organized crime bosses might be involved, authorities say they have not proven a direct link between marijuana gardens on U.S. public lands and the major Mexico-based drug cartels."

Look, consider this: If you were a cartel boss in Mexico and given a choice between (a) buying bulk chemicals from China, which is legal in Mexico, at cheap, cheap prices, forcing a chemist to mix-up the chemicals, using, perhaps, the hundreds of mauiladoras along the border as cover, then exporting to the US. All in a matter of hours or at most days. Versus (b) dispatching growers to a foreign land which is already on alert to illegal immigrants, planting, cultivating, and harvesting a product that takes many weeks to bring to a saleable product. Not to mention that it is probably not as addictive as meth and not as lucrative (on a pound to pound comparison).

I'm not in the illict drug business, but I'd sure pick (a) any day.
Concerned

Mexico

#26 Aug 2, 2012
El Chingon wrote:
<quoted text>
I think this paragraph below, from your link sums up the dubious nature of the supposed "link" between California-grown pot and Mexican cartels. I'm thinking the US authorities involved (eg Forest Service, etc) are probably playing up this supposed connection in order to up their fundings. A standard practice among government types.
"While federal officials suspect that Mexican organized crime bosses might be involved, authorities say they have not proven a direct link between marijuana gardens on U.S. public lands and the major Mexico-based drug cartels."
Look, consider this: If you were a cartel boss in Mexico and given a choice between (a) buying bulk chemicals from China, which is legal in Mexico, at cheap, cheap prices, forcing a chemist to mix-up the chemicals, using, perhaps, the hundreds of mauiladoras along the border as cover, then exporting to the US. All in a matter of hours or at most days. Versus (b) dispatching growers to a foreign land which is already on alert to illegal immigrants, planting, cultivating, and harvesting a product that takes many weeks to bring to a saleable product. Not to mention that it is probably not as addictive as meth and not as lucrative (on a pound to pound comparison).
I'm not in the illict drug business, but I'd sure pick (a) any day.
I was reading that one of the reasons that they suspect Drug cartels is that they have found burritos, Mexican food staples and other things associated which point to Mexican cartels at many of the sites. They have also caught some of them. It also says they are heavily armed which points in that direction also.

It is safer for Mexicans to grow it in the USA. The time spent in incarceration for a US citizen would be stiff. If an illegal is caught he will be deported, or spend a short time in jail. If I were a Mexican I would much rather be caught growing it in the USA then in Mexico. Mexican prisons are hell on earth.

Mexican Drug Cartels Are Growing Marijuana in U.S. National Parks and Forests. Mexican cartels have a multibillion-dollar operation cultivating marijuana in National Parks and Forests in the U.S., said John P. Walters, who heads the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, according to a July 23rd Washington Times article by Jerry Seper. Protected by heavily armed Mexicans and members of U.S. gangs, marijuana growers are clear-cutting forest, illegally hunting wildlife, diverting waterways, and leaving mountains of trash and human waste in Arizona, California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii, Kentucky, Tennessee, and West Virginia.

http://www.ksl.com/...

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/11/vicious...

There is so much on this subject and so many cartel members have been arrested, I cannot imagine you would just try to explain it away without proof.

My assessment after living in Mexico. They still have to get the marijuana across the border. They have to pay off a lot of people along the way to get it to the border. Much of the marijuana is grown here in Mexico by growers and sold to the cartels. So that costs money. These are low tier men that he is sending to the USA to grow drugs. They are expendable. It is actually a lot cheaper to grow them in the USA. Even though they catch some of them, many are not getting caught and their product hits the market. Just the same in Mexico but with far more obstacles to get around.

Just google it and you can read forever about Mexican drug cartels growing pot in the USA. It is no big secret and it is a fact.
El Chingon

United States

#27 Aug 2, 2012
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/12/califor...

This article seems to suggest that pot growing on public lands is being aggressively dealt with, thus causing pot growers to shift to more traditional farmlands. And, in the process, they are availing themselves to what most of American business utilize: Illegal immigrant labor.

Whether those illegal immigrants are controlled by Mexican cartels doesn't seem to be proven. Aside from politicians and other government types who have a stake in sensationalizing these types of speculations.
Concerned

Mexico

#28 Aug 2, 2012
El Chingon wrote:
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/ 2011/12/california-pot-growers -shifting-crop-to.html
This article seems to suggest that pot growing on public lands is being aggressively dealt with, thus causing pot growers to shift to more traditional farmlands. And, in the process, they are availing themselves to what most of American business utilize: Illegal immigrant labor.
Whether those illegal immigrants are controlled by Mexican cartels doesn't seem to be proven. Aside from politicians and other government types who have a stake in sensationalizing these types of speculations.
If you can read this is two different things they are talking about. This is talking about commercial California pot growers, not illegal narco pot growers. To different animals. The narcos cannot do that. they need the Americans to grow it under the guise of medical. they do not need the cartels or their money to do that.

The cartels are still growing in the mountains because they cannot do it this way. It is about American commercial growers. They have found a way around it so they do not need to grow it in the mountains.
El Chingon

United States

#29 Aug 2, 2012
But what definitive proof is there? The link you gave:

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/11/vicious...

Uses a lot of words like, "alleged", "suspect", etc.

Then they throw in a mix of facts and supposition (masquerading as facts). For example,

The Sinoloa cartel is vicious. Umm, duh.

Chapo Guzman was the head of the cartel. Fact.

Mexican cartels regularly move massive amounts of marijuana into the US for US consumption. Fact.

"Luncheros" provided supplies for the growers. Cute but racist pejorative intended to convey the pot growers are Hispanic, ergo illegal, ergo minions of the Mexican cartels. Lame, lame, lame.

Then Vicente Zambada-Niebla, "alleged" head of logistics for the Sinoloa cartel is quoted as somehow an unimpeachable source, righhhhhhhhhht. And there's that pesky word again, "alleged".

The presence of assault weapons, AK-47, is also offered as ummmmmm, "proof" of the presence of cartels. Never mind the fact that obtaining an AK-47 or any other assault weapon in the US is easier than buying pot. And it's legal.

Sorry, without definitive proof, I'm not convinced there is a significant presence of Mexican cartel controlled pot growing in the US.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Darrell Issa Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Porn-loving EPA employee busted for viewing smu... Sep 17 Obama Bad 5
Cruz-Booing 'Christian' Summit Features Hezboll... Sep 12 Supremeliberal 4
Roll Calla s 50 richest members of Congress for... Sep 11 Bama Yankee 1
More Lost Emails? Irs: Files missing from 5 oth... Sep 6 Le Jimbo 5
Justice Dept. must provide list of a Fast and F... Aug '14 lolol 6
Officers say no 'stand-down order' for Benghazi Aug '14 Straw Grasping Te... 112
White House tries to defuse political office su... Jul '14 barefoot2626 47
•••

Darrell Issa People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••