World outcry delays forced abortion in remote China

A Muslim Uighur woman who is more than six months pregnant remained under watch Friday in a hospital in China's far northwest, awaiting a forced abortion by authorities who don't want her to have a third child. Full Story
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Since: Apr 08

Twin Cities

#1 Nov 14, 2008
I wonder how those who are arguing so loudly for "ecologically based population control" feel about this kind of thing?
really

Boone, IA

#2 Nov 15, 2008
To answer you question, I couldn't care less!
odennorsson

Duluth, MN

#3 Nov 15, 2008
Have our President or President elect wieghed in their opinions?
curious

Saint Paul, MN

#4 Nov 15, 2008
Why don't they just force people who have had children to have their tubes tied/snipped???
Wouldn't that be cheaper and more effective?
jj R

Saint Paul, MN

#5 Nov 15, 2008
Why such a big deal? We are told that abortion is no different than having your appendix removed. If this woman were being forced to have her tonsils taken out, would there be any outcry? C'mon America, be consistent.
Sense

Duluth, MN

#6 Nov 15, 2008
The men/fathers in this region still have the same choice that we have in the most advanced countries, none at all. Whether it's the woman making the choice to abort, or the government, the Father still has NO voice in the matter, except when child support is to be initiated.
So the question is, if the choice to abort lies not with the mother, but with the government, it would seem that it's a battle between mom and China. Maybe they can start bidding on who wants the abortion more and just notify the father when it's done.

Since: Apr 08

Pig's Eye

#7 Nov 15, 2008
Ugh, I feel sick after reading this.
mpls

Alma, NE

#8 Nov 15, 2008
Why dont china have an adoption process, I am sure there are some couples who cant have children out there and maybe international adoption, I agreekind of with there rules to a point otherwise it would be over populated.
annemariej

Plainfield, IL

#9 Nov 15, 2008
Another instance of a woman who doesn't get a "choice" in the situation... Although, it's amazing that this situation is similar to what women in the US face- although those forcing our women to have abortions are social and not governmental.
Wheelchair Charley

Alexandria, MN

#10 Nov 15, 2008
Where was the outcry when it was discovered that babies born with a disability or was a girl they would dump them into the river to drown. And where was the outcry when the senator from Illn was in opposition to giving life saving treatment to a child who survived a botched abortion.

“Things can only get better”

Since: May 08

Minneapolis

#12 Nov 15, 2008
I wonder what all of you would be saying if it was the Chinese who were complaining about a US government policy. I believe that you would be saying that it is none of their business. So, it is none of our business when the Chinese government enforces governmental policy.
Didaskalos

Minneapolis, MN

#14 Nov 15, 2008
annemariej wrote:
Another instance of a woman who doesn't get a "choice" in the situation... Although, it's amazing that this situation is similar to what women in the US face- although those forcing our women to have abortions are social and not governmental.
Not too unlike our self-righteous, self-congratulatory system, is it?

[from "The Unchoice" -- http://www.unfairchoice.info/TopTenReasonsIts... ]

The rhetoric of choice hides the reality of coercion.

64% of American women who have had abortions felt pressured by others.1

Her “choices” may involve losing her shelter, her family, her income or even her life. Coercion can escalate to violence. 2 Homicide is the leading killer of pregnant women.3

Coercion takes many forms, including undisclosed, deceptive or false information..4

Even though the majority felt rushed, 67% received no counseling; 79% were not told about alternatives.1

Abortion is often a woman’s last choice, but her abuser's first choice.2 America's teens are also at risk for coercion, health injury and suicide. 5

Many who pushed family or friends to abort were also deceived – by experts, authorities, even pastors – about fetal development, alternatives and risks.4, 6

The overall death rate of women rises 3.5 times after an abortion.7 Suicide rates are 6-7 times higher after an abortion.8

65% report symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder they attribute to their abortions.1

"We were maiming at least one woman a month." – Carol Everett, former abortion clinic operator9

It wasn’t safe. It wasn’t fair. It wasn’t about “choice.”




Citations



1. VM Rue et. al.,“Induced abortion and traumatic stress: A preliminary comparison of American and Russian women,” Medical Science Monitor 10(10): SR5-16, 2004.

2. See the special report, Forced Abortion in America at www.unfairchoice.info/Coerced.htm .

3. I.L. Horton and D. Cheng,“Enhanced Surveillance for Pregnancy-Associated Mortality-Maryland, 1993-1998,” JAMA 285(11): 1455-1459 (2001). See also J. Mcfarlane et. al., "Abuse During Pregnancy and Femicide: Urgent Implications for Women's Health," Obstetrics & Gynecology 100: 27-36 (2002).

4. Melinda Tankard-Reist, Giving Sorrow Words (Springfield, IL: Acorn Books, 2007).

5. Sobie & Reardon,“A Generation at Risk: How Pro-Abortionists Manipulate Vulnerable Teens,” The Post-Abortion Review, Vol. 8, No. 1, Jan-Mar. 2000.

6. Carol Everett with Jack Shaw, Blood Money (Sisters, OR: Multnomah Books, 1992). See also Pamela Zekman and Pamela Warwick,“The Abortion Profiteers,” Chicago Sun Times special reprint, Dec. 3, 1978 (originally published Nov. 12, 1978), p. 2-3, 33.

6. M Gissler et. al.,“Pregnancy Associated Deaths in Finland 1987-1994 -- definition problems and benefits of record linkage,” Acta Obsetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica 76:651-657, 1997. See also, DC Reardon et. al.,“Deaths Associated With Pregnancy Outcome: A Record Linkage Study of Low Income Women,” Southern Medical Journal 95(8):834-41, Aug. 2002.

7. M. Gissler et. al.,“Injury deaths, suicides and homicides associated with pregnancy, Finland 1987-2000,” European J. Public Health 15(5):459‑63, 2005; and M. Gissler, et. al.,“Methods for identifying pregnancy-associated deaths: population-based data from Finland 1987-2000,” Paediatric Perinatal Epidemiology 18(6): 44855, Nov. 2004.

8. VM Rue et. al.,“Induced abortion and traumatic stress: A preliminary comparison of American and Russian women,” Medical Science Monitor 10(10): SR5-16, 2004.

9. From The Ex-Abortionists: Why They Quit, by Frank Joseph, MD (The Human Life Foundation, 215 Lexington Avenue, New York, New York 10016).
Former DFFer

Minneapolis, MN

#16 Nov 15, 2008
This what the DFL crowd wants here in America. Abortion anytime for any reason. America is turning into a Socialist country just like China.

Jack Kennedy must be turning in his grave at what the Democrat Party has become. As an old time Democrat, I just can't believe where our country is going. There is no difference between what the current Democrats want us to go (Socialism) and where China is at now.
clll

Saint Paul, MN

#18 Nov 15, 2008
Former DFFer, do some studying before you throw around big words like socialism. China is not a socialist country - far from it - and nothing Sen Obama has proposed comes close to it either.

The crime of this story is that any woman would be forced to have a abortion, just as horrible as it is to force a woman to carry to term an unwanted pregnancy.
Live and let live

Saint Paul, MN

#19 Nov 15, 2008
mpls wrote:
Why dont china have an adoption process, I am sure there are some couples who cant have children out there and maybe international adoption, I agreekind of with there rules to a point otherwise it would be over populated.
China does currently have an adoption process, although at times quite difficult for families here to jump through the multiple hoops required....which is sad considering the number of baby girls who are currently in orphanages in China (as due to the fact only one child is allowed, most families...if not forced to abort...or chosen independently...prefer to have a son to carry on the family name, business, farm, care for elder parents, etc, etc.- resulting in many aborted or abandoned female children).

While I do not wish to argue with you about your agreement that the policy in place in China, as per your comment you see it as useful as polulation control, I would like to point out the following:
1.) as mentioned, the side effect of the one child policy is that many families (given only the chance to have one child) choose to have a male.
2.) also as mentioned in the article, this has contributed to the 400 MILLION...yes 400 MILLION, aborted children in the past 30 years. wow..thats a lot of dead kids.
3.) An un-intented consequence of the policy (an perhaps ultimately the true population control)is only now being seen as the effects of #1 and #2 above come to fruit. The result is an abundance of males in China...compared to the much smaller population of females. Not a biology expert...but I know that in general (besides being great companions, wives, sisters, friends, etc) women are kind of important for continuing the population.
4.) and lastly, even if you don't believe as I do that abortion is wrong, most people agree that a gov't culling members of the future population is scary (think Nazi Germany and the bio-genetics legislation implimented to force abortions on "undesirables" within the population)
Just Humanity

Duluth, MN

#20 Nov 15, 2008
clll wrote:
The crime of this story is that any woman would be forced to have a abortion, just as horrible as it is to force a woman to carry to term an unwanted pregnancy.
What if the child is already born and after wanting the child during pregnancy, the Mother losses interest, can she then have the child killed? What is horrible is the fact that she got pregnant in the first place with no intentions of having the child. Kill them now, or kill them later, oh, you would just have them killed before they look you in the eye?
City woman

Minneapolis, MN

#21 Nov 15, 2008
Former DFFer wrote:
This what the DFL crowd wants here in America. Abortion anytime for any reason. America is turning into a Socialist country just like China.
Jack Kennedy must be turning in his grave at what the Democrat Party has become. As an old time Democrat, I just can't believe where our country is going. There is no difference between what the current Democrats want us to go (Socialism) and where China is at now.
No, the DFL wants women to be able to make a choice about whether or not they'll have an abortion - not to be forced to have a child OR forced to have an abortion. Choice = being free from force in either direction. I don't recall any democrat ever advocating forced abortion. So yes, there is a massive difference between where the dems want us to go and where China is at now.

And for the record, many dems support bans on late-term abortions...but somehow I doubt that you care about such distinctions.
pumpkin

Saint Paul, MN

#22 Nov 15, 2008
City woman wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the DFL wants women to be able to make a choice about whether or not they'll have an abortion - not to be forced to have a child OR forced to have an abortion. Choice = being free from force in either direction. I don't recall any democrat ever advocating forced abortion. So yes, there is a massive difference between where the dems want us to go and where China is at now.
And for the record, many dems support bans on late-term abortions...but somehow I doubt that you care about such distinctions.
And not to forget these tasty sour grapes,for the record many Democrats SUPPORT late-term abortions by a margin of nearly Two to One, including the Messiah Obama...but somehow I doubt that you care about such realities. Here is something you can fact check.

March 14, 2003. WAPO. In a significant victory for antiabortion forces, the Senate yesterday overwhelmingly approved legislation to ban the controversial procedure "partial-birth" abortions for ending pregnancies, putting the measure on track for enactment after an eight-year struggle. The Senate vote was 64 to 33, 16 Democrats supported the bill, but 29 Democrats, three Republicans and one independent opposing it.

See, almost 2 to 1.
pumpkin

Saint Paul, MN

#23 Nov 15, 2008
And for everyone out there is a great website called High Beam Research that is a premiere online library where you can find research, facts, and articles on almost any story. It can be useful for future "dialoging" and with all the references, you can come to your own conclusions about the truth instead of depending on others to tell you what it is.

http://www.highbeam.com
Live and let live

Saint Paul, MN

#24 Nov 15, 2008
City woman wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the DFL wants women to be able to make a choice about whether or not they'll have an abortion - not to be forced to have a child OR forced to have an abortion. Choice = being free from force in either direction. I don't recall any democrat ever advocating forced abortion. So yes, there is a massive difference between where the dems want us to go and where China is at now.
And for the record, many dems support bans on late-term abortions...but somehow I doubt that you care about such distinctions.
I am pro-life, but I do agree with you City Woman that the original poster you quoted was drawing a poor comparison between the DFL in the USA and forced abortions in China. There is a difference, and often, as people get into these heated debates it is easy to make leaps in one's argument from reason to passion. Whether you agree or disagree with abortion...Physically forcing someone to abort is different than providing open access for an abortion at any time.
But, similar to Former DFLer who I believe was mistaken, my personal belief is that you are also missing a piece of the puzzle in your argument. You mention "Choice"...which, as a concept is something that we all enjoy...something that as Americans we believe we all should have, and so, it easily becomes both a popular and productive motto...I mean, who wouldn't want more choice...and why would anyone want less choice? By summarizing the abortion issue into being someone who is for or against "more choice"....the issue at hand is simplified.
For many of us, we see the ultrasound pictures of our children that we saved from our visits to the doctor...we remember anxiosly waiting to feel our child's little kicks while in the womb...and for my son (born just about 1 month ago) they really were so little at first....but there, even if hard to find at times!...and there very early in the pregnancy. We remember reading week by week about the development of our own baby...remember 21 days in the heart started beating...remember that our baby became sensitive to sounds...to light..and to pain.
And then as I think about those things...I begin to wonder if the word "choice" really sums up the whole decision to "terminate" so easily. There are choices involved...the choice to have sex which led to becoming pregnant (I'm not a prude, so please don't flame me with saying that I am against sex, religously stuck-up, imposing morals, etc....also, the easy dismissive reply to my comments would be...well what about rape, where is the choice there...and I agree, there isn't a choice in that situation...but rape is such a miniscule portion of the abortions perfomed that it is a distractor from the overall discussion....and really, I think a seperate conversation as much more complicated...same for the life of the mother...most rational people agree there isn't much of a "choice" there either....so, lets agree to focus on the other 99% of abortions and not be distracted by the outliers)
There are also choices available for pregnant women after delivering the baby...including adoption. I know many wonderful adopted children who I am sure are happy to be alive...and I also know a number of infertile couples who would welcome a stranger's child into their family. These are choices.

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