Another Voice - Is anyone there?

Another Voice - Is anyone there? I read with interest the article on " Health reform: What you can expect," by Rep. Full Story

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

#1 May 5, 2010
Absolutely fantastic article Butch………You hit many of the sore points for obama and his followers……….

But you missed my favorite one………if obama would have changed one law you would be able to buy a better health insurance policy than obamacare provides for about 10% of what obamacare will cost you………

But he would have to really want to reform health care to do that………Instead he paid back some of his supporters for getting him elected………

Take a guess who BP gave the most money to for that last few years????
And then they did not have to do an EIR report on the rig that is now fouling the Gulf of Mexico………

Coincident??

That is for you to decide………
Cut Ones Balls Off

Oakland, CA

#2 May 5, 2010
Here Is One wrote:
Absolutely fantastic article Butch………You hit many of the sore points for obama and his followers……….
But you missed my favorite one………if obama would have changed one law you would be able to buy a better health insurance policy than obamacare provides for about 10% of what obamacare will cost you………
But he would have to really want to reform health care to do that………Instead he paid back some of his supporters for getting him elected………
Take a guess who BP gave the most money to for that last few years????
And then they did not have to do an EIR report on the rig that is now fouling the Gulf of Mexico………
Coincident??
That is for you to decide………
Lets Cut HIO's Balls Off...

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

#3 May 5, 2010
Cut Ones Balls Off wrote:
<quoted text>Lets Cut HIO's Balls Off...
I have told you senseless one that I will tell you next time I am back in Ukiah.

And I will give you a chance.LOL

Cant wait for that..I may even hurry up my trip just for thatLOL
SteveD_in_Ukiah

San Leandro, CA

#4 May 6, 2010
Here Is One wrote:
Absolutely fantastic article Butch. You hit many of the sore points for obama and his followers
Yeah I agree, good elaborate letter here
This is the type of article I like to comment on. But Butch covered all the bases. It's relatively short, precise, and still includes all the important key details. Namely: The American people have been completely hoodwinked. Lied to. Deceived
This bill is going to cost us SO much money, we'll be paying for decades, just to pay back allocated money from the bill for the programs
Then we'll be paying to keep up with it. Horrible bill, socialized healthcare is an absolute dictatorship, and like all dictorships, it's designed to feed the dictators the big portions and leave the common people the scraps

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

#5 May 6, 2010
SteveD_in_Ukiah wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah I agree, good elaborate letter here
This is the type of article I like to comment on. But Butch covered all the bases. It's relatively short, precise, and still includes all the important key details. Namely: The American people have been completely hoodwinked. Lied to. Deceived
This bill is going to cost us SO much money, we'll be paying for decades, just to pay back allocated money from the bill for the programs
Then we'll be paying to keep up with it. Horrible bill, socialized healthcare is an absolute dictatorship, and like all dictorships, it's designed to feed the dictators the big portions and leave the common people the scraps
And the fools that voted for it would not even pay attention to the fact that the law makers dont get or want obamacare..they get real healthcare
They excluded themselves from it..LOL
SteveD_in_Ukiah

San Leandro, CA

#6 May 6, 2010
Here Is One wrote:
<quoted text>
And the fools that voted for it would not even pay attention to the fact that the law makers dont get or want obamacare..they get real healthcare
They excluded themselves from it..LOL
Yep, any time that point is made to an Obama fan, they literally change the subject. It's strange, because any other angle on the health bill mentioned, and they'll either debate or insult, but with this point...they just change the subject

I don't think most of them know about it, so they just change subjects. Then some do know, but don't care because they bend knee to their party/politicians. Then some trust Obama and admin, thinking he really is going to take care of them. That's the sad one, people trusting him who are going to have a horrible realization when they're flat broke from 50% taxes and penalties and expensive government health care

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

#7 May 6, 2010
SteveD_in_Ukiah wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, any time that point is made to an Obama fan, they literally change the subject. It's strange, because any other angle on the health bill mentioned, and they'll either debate or insult, but with this point...they just change the subject
I don't think most of them know about it, so they just change subjects. Then some do know, but don't care because they bend knee to their party/politicians. Then some trust Obama and admin, thinking he really is going to take care of them. That's the sad one, people trusting him who are going to have a horrible realization when they're flat broke from 50% taxes and penalties and expensive government health care
Correct.

Have you paid attention to the problems in the UK..Their debt is skyrocketing as the revenue is down.

10% of the people pay 90% of the taxes and the UK just kept raising taxes until the people with the money left..

It is already starting in the USA..Look at all of the companies that have left alreadyLook at all of the rich people investing here in Mexico

Raise taxes and revenue dropsalways has and always will
Limited Vision One

Ukiah, CA

#8 May 6, 2010
Here Is One wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct.
Have you paid attention to the problems in the UK..Their debt is skyrocketing as the revenue is down.
10% of the people pay 90% of the taxes and the UK just kept raising taxes until the people with the money left..
It is already starting in the USA..Look at all of the companies that have left alreadyLook at all of the rich people investing here in Mexico
Raise taxes and revenue dropsalways has and always will
Simple explanations from a simpleton...
Look at a country like Germany for example.

In Germany, every corporation in the country is required to have half of the members of their board of directors appointed by the union representing the workers of the company the most corporate-intrusive system in all of Europe. In Denmark, not only are healthcare and education free, but they even pay students a monthly stipend to cover food, housing, and books all the time theyre in school all the way up to PhD or MD degrees.

So what differentiates Germany and Denmark from Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain? Germany and Denmark never fully drank the so-called free trade kool-aid, and thus both have strong manufacturing sectors. Across America youll find German cars and Danish wind turbines, as well as across those nations themselves. But walk into any store in Spain, Greece, Ireland, or Portugal and youll find row after row of Chinese-made goods.

Twenty years of insane flat-earth free-trade policies have disemboweled the economies of the United States and numerous European countries. The US, for example, has gone from 20% GDP in manufacturing before the election of Reagan to just 11% now. Countries that dont make things dont create real wealth, and thus must turn to Goldman Sachs to help them borrow money.

Germany and Denmark, socialism that works. Oh but the taxes are higher than ours....

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

#9 May 6, 2010
Limited Vision One wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple explanations from a simpleton...
Look at a country like Germany for example.
In Germany, every corporation in the country is required to have half of the members of their board of directors appointed by the union representing the workers of the company the most corporate-intrusive system in all of Europe. In Denmark, not only are healthcare and education free, but they even pay students a monthly stipend to cover food, housing, and books all the time theyre in school all the way up to PhD or MD degrees.
So what differentiates Germany and Denmark from Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain? Germany and Denmark never fully drank the so-called free trade kool-aid, and thus both have strong manufacturing sectors. Across America youll find German cars and Danish wind turbines, as well as across those nations themselves. But walk into any store in Spain, Greece, Ireland, or Portugal and youll find row after row of Chinese-made goods.
Twenty years of insane flat-earth free-trade policies have disemboweled the economies of the United States and numerous European countries. The US, for example, has gone from 20% GDP in manufacturing before the election of Reagan to just 11% now. Countries that dont make things dont create real wealth, and thus must turn to Goldman Sachs to help them borrow money.
Germany and Denmark, socialism that works. Oh but the taxes are higher than ours....
Germany is doing so well as they are financially conservative..Try and immigrate there and apply for free food.LOL

The Free trade is not free and that is why it does not workImport something American to China and you will pay a huge import dutyImport something from china to the USA and it is nothing.

Germany and Denmark have one of the highest suicide and alcoholic rates in the worldAnd in Germany you are only taxed in a flat tax..It does not keep going up.So they have not driven out the wealthy.

You are right on the facts of manufacturing..But the unions drove manufacturing out of the USAJust like the minimum wage keeps the poor black kids from a job.
Nobody out of high school in a German car plant can make the kind of money unskilled workers can starting out at GM..Nor will you retire after 20 years and make a 100k per year plus bennies..
Yes I have friends that retired from GM and bring in a 100k per year.And as long as their kids are in school they are covered under the insurance plan.

Look at Cal Trans..Does a flagger really need to start out at 28 bucks per hour??........
Making it up One

Ukiah, CA

#10 May 6, 2010
Here Is One wrote:
<quoted text>
Germany is doing so well as they are financially conservative..Try and immigrate there and apply for free food.LOL
The Free trade is not free and that is why it does not workImport something American to China and you will pay a huge import dutyImport something from china to the USA and it is nothing.
Germany and Denmark have one of the highest suicide and alcoholic rates in the worldAnd in Germany you are only taxed in a flat tax..It does not keep going up.So they have not driven out the wealthy.
You are right on the facts of manufacturing..But the unions drove manufacturing out of the USAJust like the minimum wage keeps the poor black kids from a job.
Nobody out of high school in a German car plant can make the kind of money unskilled workers can starting out at GM..Nor will you retire after 20 years and make a 100k per year plus bennies..
Yes I have friends that retired from GM and bring in a 100k per year.And as long as their kids are in school they are covered under the insurance plan.
Look at Cal Trans..Does a flagger really need to start out at 28 bucks per hour??........
Germany suicide rank 50
Denmark 43
United States 40....so you are wrong on that.

Your assumption that unions drove out manufacturing is wrong...Corporations went where conditions were cheaper, partially because unions have no real clout like they do in Germany and Denmark. Workers have equal representation on corporate boards in Germany, virtually none in US of A.

Here is what "works" in Germany and other socialist countries.

A works council is a "shop-floor" organization representing workers, which functions as local/firm-level complement to national labour negotiations. Works councils exist with different names in a variety of related forms in a number of European countries, including Germany and Austria (Betriebsrat), Luxembourg (Comit Mixte), the Netherlands and Flanders in Belgium (Ondernemingsraad), France (Comit d'Entreprise), Wallonia in Belgium (Conseil d'Entreprise), and Spain (Comit de empresa).

One of the most commonly-examined (and arguably most successful) implementations of these institutions is found in Germany. The model is basically as follows: general labour agreements are made at the national level by national unions (e.g. IG Metall) and national employer associations (e.g. Gesamtmetall), and local plants and firms then meet with works councils to adjust these national agreements to local circumstances. Works council members are elected by the company workforce for a four year term. They don't have to be union members; works councils can also be formed in companies where neither the employer nor the employees are organized.

Workers have representation there, unlike here where they might negotiate a contract but no real protections for the greater good.
SteveD_in_Ukiah

San Leandro, CA

#11 May 6, 2010
Making it up One wrote:
<quoted text>
Germany suicide rank 50
Denmark 43
United States 40....so you are wrong on that.
Your assumption that unions drove out manufacturing is wrong...Corporations went where conditions were cheaper, partially because unions have no real clout like they do in Germany and Denmark. Workers have equal representation on corporate boards in Germany, virtually none in US of A.
Here is what "works" in Germany and other socialist countries.
A works council is a "shop-floor" organization representing workers, which functions as local/firm-level complement to national labour negotiations. Works councils exist with different names in a variety of related forms in a number of European countries, including Germany and Austria (Betriebsrat), Luxembourg (Comit Mixte), the Netherlands and Flanders in Belgium (Ondernemingsraad), France (Comit d'Entreprise), Wallonia in Belgium (Conseil d'Entreprise), and Spain (Comit de empresa).
One of the most commonly-examined (and arguably most successful) implementations of these institutions is found in Germany. The model is basically as follows: general labour agreements are made at the national level by national unions (e.g. IG Metall) and national employer associations (e.g. Gesamtmetall), and local plants and firms then meet with works councils to adjust these national agreements to local circumstances. Works council members are elected by the company workforce for a four year term. They don't have to be union members; works councils can also be formed in companies where neither the employer nor the employees are organized.
Workers have representation there, unlike here where they might negotiate a contract but no real protections for the greater good.
Yes Germany is far better than the United States

That's why millions of Americans move to Germany every year
Calvin Johnson

Napa, CA

#12 May 15, 2010
Okay, Butch. You have made your point, that a lot is not explained. But my problem is that the Republicans have no answers. They say, who is gonna pay for this, but do they even admit that the system is broken. THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN, BUTCH. Health care, as it stands, does not work. So, now, the Obama administration tries to fix it, and no, it is not perfect, but, if you admit that, too, as the Republicans do, then what do we do about. Go back to the beginning? What beginning? The Republicans, under W., had a long time to get things started. All they can do now is moan and cry about how much it's going to cost. The answer for them seems to be to do nothing, or do nothing. Oh no, don't raise taxes. Oh, no, don't take privileges away from those corporate giants since that would destroy jobs. Oh no, don't make insurance companies more accountable. Okay, then what. All I hear from the right is what the reform legislation is not. But I never hear any alternatives. How the hell do you know it won't work if you don't give it a chance. I am and always have been a democrat. Letters like Butch's just affirm that good decision.
Alfusco

Jackson St Forest, CA

#13 May 16, 2010
I think you spend too much time chatting with other idiots....LOL

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Bennie Thompson Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Effort to recognize Virginia tribe draws ire Dec 1 El oh El 21
Dem on Islamic State: 'Violent Extremism Has No... Sep '14 Rusty Tin Can 1
Syria vote poses dilemma for black members of C... (Sep '13) Sep '13 Go Blue Forever 3
Military ill prepared for homegrown threat (Dec '11) Aug '13 FACT 2
Medgar Evers remembered in a ceremony 50 years ... (Jun '13) Jun '13 Aprilvue 3
US Rep: FEMA Should Intervene in Shelter Contract (Jun '13) Jun '13 Jim 1
US Rep: FEMA should intervene in shelter contract (Jun '13) Jun '13 Citizen of Concern 1
More from around the web