It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103292 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

04FXDL

Spotsylvania, VA

#68058 May 25, 2012
Him wrote:
<quoted text>
Strict gun control laws in the Developed Nations has resulted in less firearm homicides when compared to the USA.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio...
Less guns = less deaths is also reflected in the figures for all murders
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_per...
http://sydney.edu.au/news/84.html...
Him

Brisbane, Australia

#68059 May 25, 2012
04FXDL wrote:
You like Sydney University...

Australian gun laws led to fewer deaths

http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/news/news/2006/...
Him

Brisbane, Australia

#68060 May 25, 2012
How much does an illegal firearm cost on the black market in a country with strict gun laws

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/weapons-stash-stole...

“Politics and Religion”

Since: Apr 12

http://aussie-site.com

#68061 May 25, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>Lets try this again:
"Does that mean there should be NO laws in this country?
yes (there should be laws) or no (there should NOT be laws)?
Simple question"
Why ya keep running from simple questions?
Because you are trying to make it completely black and white you silly thing

ZBJ

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#68062 May 26, 2012
On President Obama's contribution to ending the bin Laden threat:

The Dr. who helped President Obama find and kill Osama bin Laden, was given a virtual death sentence from a Pakistan court that sentenced to 33 years in prison.

Dr. Shakil Afridi, ran a vaccination program for the CIA and collected DNA to verify bin Laden's presence in the Abbottabad compound where the terrorist leader was later killed by U.S. commandos.

The Pakistani court has shown their appreciation for ending the bin Laden threat by charging, trying and convicting Afridi of treason... Where’s the out rage?

Could it be in Washington, DC?

The United States has given wings to it’s righteous indignation by canceling $33 million dollars of “aid” to the Pakistani government – one million dollars for every year of Dr. Afridi’s sentence.

Umm, but the annual aid Pakistan is receiving is somewhere around One Billion Dollars annually.
Now for the mathematically impaired, like me: 1 thousand, thousand is a million and 1 thousand million is a billion…

So of the 1 thousand million dollars ($1 billion) we give to Pakistan every year, we won’t be sending them 33 million of that amount – this year.

I might be a mathematical lightweight, but even I can figure out; 33 million is mere “chump change” compared to a 1 billion dollars annual "aid" package.

Am I the only one that might think, this appears to be little more than a useless symbolic gesture?

Oh, but to the topic of my post, which was:“Obama played a major part in getting Osama bin Laden,”

Team Obama says so in their endorsed campaign ads, President Obama himself has mentioned it in numerous TV interviews. His supporters appear to want to rub their political opponents’ noses in it and even Barack Obama’s detractors have to admit, President Obama –“got bin Laden”, something former President Bush had failed to do.

But here’s a random thought…

Since President Obama was such a major contributor for getting rid of bin Laden – shouldn’t also be considered a major contributor for virtually hanging Dr. Shakil Afridi, out to dry with little to no consequences from us?

Another random thought…

How do you suppose the next potential informant might feel about passing on their knowledge of a pending or likely threat to America or Americans?

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#68063 May 26, 2012
Terry Buckeye wrote:
<quoted text>
Barack Obama gave the order to take out bin Laden using a S.E.A.L. team. That's what a Commander in Chief does.
We also have boots on the ground in Germany, Japan, France, England... I'm not sure what your point was here.
My point about Iraq was disputing Bunny's claim that ALL troops had been removed from Iraq, when they haven't.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#68064 May 26, 2012
Veritas wrote:
<quoted text>[snipped fro brevity]
And finally: No body was ever dumped into the sea from any U.S. aircraft, because the only helicopter involved in that mission was destroyed by a mysterious explosion killing all who were involved. Nothing like getting rid of the witnesses to the 'non-event' just to make sure nobody talks about the lie.
A neighbor close by looked over the adjoining wall and remarked that he saw dead bodies, and body parts everywhere along with the destroyed parts of that helicopter.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories. There were two helos used the night of the Bin Laden compound raid. One was hit as it was coming in, but we didn't lose anyone. There were bodies laying around, but they were not ours. We had learned from a previous mission not to put all of eggs into one basket (the mission where we lost 22(?) seal team members when they were all loaded into one Chinook and it got shot down). The explosion was from explosives planted by the team to destroy the downed helo.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#68065 May 26, 2012
Johnny wrote:
<quoted text>
If NO ONE had guns, the world would be a lot safer place. But Americans who carry guns are bullies just like dictators who rule at the end of a weapon; you can't fight fairly, you have no dciks, and you are little scaredy cats who would shoot at their own shadows...Tell me, do you sleep with the lights on tough man..?
Sorry, that cat is already out of the bag and there is no conceivable way to un-do it.

There are guns in the world, and I can’t think of any possible way to make that not happen. Other countries have tried, but all that has seemed to accomplish is the only ones not carrying guns are the cops – and the crooks.

Someone attempted to make a point that in countries with strict gun control there is “less crime”, while it is certainly true that there does seem to be less gun crimes, when one looks at countries like the United Kingdom as opposed to the U.S. for instance, it appears as though the UK actually has more crime and more crime victims than the US – just less gun crimes.

Now take into consideration the population of the UK: 62,218,761 (2010) and the population of the U.S.: 308,745,538 (2010) and the claims that countries with more strict gun control having substantially “less crime” might not be completely accurate.

QUOTE =UK Telegraph:“England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study
England and Wales has one of the worst crime rates among developed nations for rapes, burglaries and robberies, a major report has found “:END QUOTE

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-an...

Of course there are countries with strict gun control measures, that have lower crime rates, but then there are also countries with virtually no gun control that also have significantly lower crime rates.

What does this prove? Well to me it at least indicates that it isn’t the guns that are the major factor in crime or gun crime statistics, it is the individual who wields the gun.
Veritas

Chicago, IL

#68066 May 26, 2012
Him wrote:
<quoted text>
Strict gun control laws in the Developed Nations has resulted in less firearm homicides when compared to the USA.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio...
Less guns = less deaths is also reflected in the figures for all murders
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_per...
No, that statement is untrue for a number of reasons, virtually none of which have anything to do with gun control.

You're guilty of making a specious statement based in nothing other than emotion, itself not having one iota of the scientific.

A thoughtful analysis of why some nations have non-existent deaths associated with firearms, reveals that the matter culture has virtually everything to do with why all other forms of murder are also similarly low.

Many Swiss citizens are mandated to possess select-fire weapons along with 1000 rounds of ammunition in their houses. What's death rate associated with firearms in that country?

The more diverse the population is in any particular nation, the greater the likelihood for violence to erupt frequently, many times involving homicide.

More to the point: In those places of the U.S. where there is stringent gun control, the rates of violence are far, far higher than those other places where firearms are very common and not nearly as controlled.

In summary, the causes of violence, and that would be ANY kind of violence, have everything to do with what's seen as acceptable in the culture by the various residents.

Guns have virtually nothing to do with the matter, anymore than baseball bats, hammers, knives, or whatever other object at which you'd like to point a finger.
Veritas

Chicago, IL

#68067 May 26, 2012
Him wrote:
How much does an illegal firearm cost on the black market in a country with strict gun laws
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/weapons-stash-stole...
Pointing to Australia as some kind of 'beacon of calm' is as about a ludicrous a statement as any!

http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/6/B/1/%7B6B17...
Veritas

Chicago, IL

#68068 May 26, 2012
Don-N-Kansas wrote:
Dr. Shakil Afridi, ran a vaccination program for the CIA and collected DNA to verify bin Laden's presence in the Abbottabad compound where the terrorist leader was later killed by U.S. commandos.
That's a cover story to hide the fact that bin Laden was never there to begin with. For all anyone knows, the persons living in that building may well have been other operatives.

If you must repeat the pablum, at least pull back the curtain to see who's operating the levers.

Once again: bin Laden died in a Dubai hospital shortly after 9-11-2001. The connivers in Washington, D.C., needed a bogeyman to keep the hype going in order to scare Americans into yet another war, with someone, ANYONE, in order to keep war machine running.

Remember: There's a bin Laden hiding under your bed. There's another one hiding in one of your closets, yet another one hiding under the kitchen sink, and another one also hiding out in your bath.

And if you go into the forest, there's a bin Laden hiding behind every tree!!!
Veritas

Chicago, IL

#68069 May 26, 2012
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not one for conspiracy theories. There were two helos used the night of the Bin Laden compound raid. One was hit as it was coming in, but we didn't lose anyone. There were bodies laying around, but they were not ours. We had learned from a previous mission not to put all of eggs into one basket (the mission where we lost 22(?) seal team members when they were all loaded into one Chinook and it got shot down). The explosion was from explosives planted by the team to destroy the downed helo.
From where are you getting your info?
Veritas

Chicago, IL

#68070 May 26, 2012
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not one for conspiracy theories. There were two helos used the night of the Bin Laden compound raid. One was hit as it was coming in, but we didn't lose anyone. There were bodies laying around, but they were not ours. We had learned from a previous mission not to put all of eggs into one basket (the mission where we lost 22(?) seal team members when they were all loaded into one Chinook and it got shot down). The explosion was from explosives planted by the team to destroy the downed helo.
And one other thing: Why would the SEALS seek to destroy the building if they already supposedly had bin Laden?

What purpose would that have served?

And if, as you say, the one got shot down, while still in the yard of that place, how did the other land in all that burning debris in the rather small confines of that yard and manage to extract the bodies of the 'survivors?'

Finally, what was shot down was most certainly NOT a Chinook!! The configuration was of something far smaller, of a different design, such that even China wanted to visit the place and look over the design for its stealth tech.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#68071 May 26, 2012
Veritas wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a cover story to hide the fact that bin Laden was never there to begin with. For all anyone knows, the persons living in that building may well have been other operatives.
If you must repeat the pablum, at least pull back the curtain to see who's operating the levers.
Once again: bin Laden died in a Dubai hospital shortly after 9-11-2001. The connivers in Washington, D.C., needed a bogeyman to keep the hype going in order to scare Americans into yet another war, with someone, ANYONE, in order to keep war machine running.
Remember: There's a bin Laden hiding under your bed. There's another one hiding in one of your closets, yet another one hiding under the kitchen sink, and another one also hiding out in your bath.
And if you go into the forest, there's a bin Laden hiding behind every tree!!!
Since there had been no videos or messages from OBL in quite awhile, it seems to me that his demise was much earlier than the government propaganda media led many to believe.
A vowed enemy guy like that just does not mysteriously shut up but gets even more vocal and threatening as the pressure increases.
If in fact he was put down during the celebrated raid, it is also quite disturbing and unusual that they would "bury" the evidence immediately after his supposed death. Why not "prove" it was him by making available all proof to the deed ... like his actual body to be "verified" by other sources and means, like the proof that Saddam was executed. I call bullshit, on his demise in the celebrated raid that all the libs point to as some sort of trophy in BO's political display case.
Why would they keep secret his earlier demise? To keep the hoax going, and to try to flush out more "enemies" perhaps.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#68072 May 26, 2012
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
My point about Iraq was disputing Bunny's claim that ALL troops had been removed from Iraq, when they haven't.
They all did not come home either. The only ones that came home were the ones who had served their tours and were coming home anyway. The rest were simply redeployed elsewhere ... except of course those who still remain in Iraq to this day.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#68073 May 26, 2012
Him wrote:
<quoted text>
Strict gun control laws in the Developed Nations has resulted in less firearm homicides when compared to the USA.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio...
Less guns = less deaths is also reflected in the figures for all murders
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_per...
What happened to your Texas?Austrailia comparison to prove your point?
Can we expect that to be forthcoming from you anytime soon?
You said that the populations are comparable, so your point could be proven ... well?
Prove your case.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#68074 May 26, 2012
Veritas wrote:
<quoted text>
From where are you getting your info?
Where are you getting yours?
Let's see your link that proves your claim about when OBL was really taken out.
Veritas

Secaucus, NJ

#68075 May 26, 2012
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
They all did not come home either. The only ones that came home were the ones who had served their tours and were coming home anyway. The rest were simply redeployed elsewhere ... except of course those who still remain in Iraq to this day.
And let us not forget that the current administration has declared that the 'War on Terror' is now officially over.

Well, if that's really the case, then why the need for the troops to remain 'over there'?

The U.S. has virtually surrounded the nation of Iran with military bases. See this: http://counterinformation.wordpress.com/2012/...

And then there's that comment by our dear Janet Napolitano of the Fatherland Security Agency about how it's now American citizens who've become the 'new terrorists' and so the agency needs to hire more thugs to keep and eye on the returning veterans and others (libertarians, people quoting the U.S. Constitution, Ron Paul supporters, and similar others) who pose a threat to nation!

Since: Dec 11

Fort Worth, TX

#68077 May 26, 2012
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
My point about Iraq was disputing Bunny's claim that ALL troops had been removed from Iraq, when they haven't.
NO, and Mr. Obama never claimed that they were. What he said was that all combat troops would be removed. He specifically said that some support troops would be required to remain.

Since: Dec 11

Fort Worth, TX

#68078 May 26, 2012
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Since there had been no videos or messages from OBL in quite awhile, it seems to me that his demise was much earlier than the government propaganda media led many to believe.
A vowed enemy guy like that just does not mysteriously shut up but gets even more vocal and threatening as the pressure increases.
If in fact he was put down during the celebrated raid, it is also quite disturbing and unusual that they would "bury" the evidence immediately after his supposed death. Why not "prove" it was him by making available all proof to the deed ... like his actual body to be "verified" by other sources and means, like the proof that Saddam was executed. I call bullshit, on his demise in the celebrated raid that all the libs point to as some sort of trophy in BO's political display case.
Why would they keep secret his earlier demise? To keep the hoax going, and to try to flush out more "enemies" perhaps.
Rather than subscribe to the conspiracy theory that Osama bin Laden had been dead for several years, I thought it pertinent to look at the tapes of him in his compound. The man did not look well. To me it makes sense that he did not make any tapes in the last couple of years. It would be hard to convince people to strap bombs to themselves and walk into a market place filled with children and women and blow yourself up if you knew that the man directing you to do so was hiding, wasting away inside of a concrete bunker.

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