Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 173636 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#119682 Aug 7, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>But it seems like a whole lot of people have a problem with such.
Indeed Mikey.

We call them fundies.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#119683 Aug 7, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Matthew is a source for the claim which directly refutes your claim there was no sources.
And his claims had no evidence.
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Produce one credible historian who argues for that.
<quoted text> Produce some credible historian who argues for the existence of Jupiter based on Josephus.
Oh, so Josephus, a dyed in the wool citizen of pre-Christian Rome, did NOT believe in the polytheistic Roman pantheon?

My mistake.

I wonder, what do you think his religious beliefs WERE then?
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>Ok then keep pontificating from a position if ignorance.
There is no reason for me to presume I am ignorant of evidence you are unwilling or unable to provide.
lightbeamrider wrote:
You do not need contemporary accounts for historical investigation. The existing accounts depict events which predate the writings. When doing investigation you are not in court so you do not need conviction.
So you're saying the evidence is not good enough for even a courtroom, but it IS good enough for you. Well it's not good enough for me. It's not good enough for historical scholars either. For instance Bart Ehrman, thinks Jesus was a real guy. But he's not a fundie Christian Biblical literalist.
lightbeamrider wrote:
Investigation involves gathering evidence and coming to some basic conclusions based on available evidence.
And the available evidence is not enough to demonstrate that invisible Jews are magic. The available evidence also FALSIFIES certain Bibilcal claims, such as talking lizards and donkeys, and the global flood.
lightbeamrider wrote:
Other than that i am done with you. You are not only stupid but stubborn and stupid at the same time.
Yeah, funny how when you fundies CAN'T back yourselves up apparently it's everyone ELSE who's "stupid".
FREE SERVANT

United States

#119684 Aug 7, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed Mikey.
We call them fundies.
By fundies, do you mean people who believe in a creator who has all power in heaven and earth? This is our answer to the question of the day. God had the power to produce the outcome we know as the heavens and he achieved this as a result of his commands. The effect is all natural laws.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#119685 Aug 7, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
There it is! It is a simple question, I asked what you believe , the reason you insult whine and cry is that you are ashamed of the answer.
You have the unmitigated gall to say the universe created itself, there is no scientific evidence ever ! that anything created itself ! none ! yet you believe it! IT IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE ,NOTHING ELSE
The simple answer is that we do not know. There simply isn't enough evidence to determine the answer.

But, given that caveat, the most likely scenarios are
1. The universe is uncaused.
2. The universe is 'caused' by a previous, contracting universe.
3. The universe is 'caused' by a process in a multiverse.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#119686 Aug 7, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Explain how the universe is uncaused, how it created itself?
Do you not see that those are not the same thing? If it created itself, it is self-caused, not un-caused. To 'explain how' is to give a cause, which is impossible if it is uncaused.

Quantum fluctuations are uncaused and it is quite possible the universe came from a quantum fluctuation.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#119687 Aug 7, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
You are just a damn coward, who is too ashamed of your answer. Did the universe create itself and all life?
No.'Creating itself' is impossible. Being uncaused is. They are not the same.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#119688 Aug 7, 2014
THINK wrote:
All effects have causes. It's a law.
Prove it.

Of course, you can't, because it is false. Most quantum effects are uncaused.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#119689 Aug 7, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>By fundies, do you mean people who believe in a creator who has all power in heaven and earth?
No, I mean people who place arbitrary limits on their creator and denying reality for the sake of their faith. People like Bo, Messy and Dimbeam Rider.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#119690 Aug 7, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>By fundies, do you mean people who believe in a creator who has all power in heaven and earth? This is our answer to the question of the day. God had the power to produce the outcome we know as the heavens and he achieved this as a result of his commands. The effect is all natural laws.
No, a fundie is someone who places their faith above verified truths of science, or someone who thinks it more important to believe what they believe than to be caring and compassionate.

I have known people who accept the truths that science has discovered, were kind and compassionate, and *also* believed in an all-powerful deity. Such people are not fundies. But anyone who denies the Big Bang or evolution because of their faith *is* a fundie.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#119691 Aug 7, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I mean people who place arbitrary limits on their creator and denying reality for the sake of their faith. People like Bo, Messy and Dimbeam Rider.
There are involuntary and necessary agents throughout nature and set limits are indicated and vital. The Creator made heaven and earth to act this way and the Bible tells us why.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#119692 Aug 7, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Would one of you brainwashed morons please take up the task of explaining Poly's statement that the universe was most likely uncaused,
Please give your scientific evidence of how an effect,( the universe ) didn't have a cause.
Its been simply explained several times, you either lack the comprehension or integrity to acknowledge it.(I'm going with the latter, for obvious reasons.) There can be no cause and effect without time and there "was" no time "before" space/time.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#119693 Aug 7, 2014
The universe proceeded from compulsion and necessity to obey God. It is vital and a requisite that all things obey the commands of our Creator.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#119694 Aug 7, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
The universe proceeded from compulsion and necessity to obey God. It is vital and a requisite that all things obey the commands of our Creator.
You base this on nothing more than a bronze age book. Case dismissed.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#119695 Aug 7, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
You base this on nothing more than a bronze age book. Case dismissed.
Before all the case is presented you are trying to dismiss.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#119696 Aug 7, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, a fundie is someone who places their faith above verified truths of science, or someone who thinks it more important to believe what they believe than to be caring and compassionate.
I have known people who accept the truths that science has discovered, were kind and compassionate, and *also* believed in an all-powerful deity. Such people are not fundies. But anyone who denies the Big Bang or evolution because of their faith *is* a fundie.
If evolution actually existed, I would not have such a problem with it. We have much more evidence for differing kinds from the very beginning of things on earth than we do from very simple single beginnings of life. I will give you that living things change to adapt, but that is not what Darwin was getting at.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#119697 Aug 7, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
There it is! It is a simple question, I asked what you believe , the reason you insult whine and cry is that you are ashamed of the answer.
You have the unmitigated gall to say the universe created itself, there is no scientific evidence ever ! that anything created itself ! none ! yet you believe it! IT IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE ,NOTHING ELSE
No you did not ask what I believed, therefore you are lying.

If you consider it a simple question then you answer it... To date I do not believe that you have. Perhaps we can get science to evaluate and peer review your response... then again if you opt for the bronze age god dunitwiv magic ploy, then there is no fame and fortune coming your way

The reason I insult you is because you insulted me. Get over yourself, grow a set or balls like a man and face up to facts that people do not just stand around and let you abuse them, it really does not batter whether you believe your god is on your side or not.

No gall involved, and I do not say the universe created itself, therefore you are lying again, it seems as though you must be a chgristian of little intelegence. What I said was there is NO scientific reason why the universe did not create itself. Just because you are ignorant of science does not mean that I am

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Nave-htm...

Go on, educate yourself, you know it makes sense
FREE SERVANT

United States

#119698 Aug 7, 2014
It is the evolutionists that have become the hanging judges and the juries.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#119699 Aug 7, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>If evolution actually existed, I would not have such a problem with it. We have much more evidence for differing kinds from the very beginning of things on earth than we do from very simple single beginnings of life. I will give you that living things change to adapt, but that is not what Darwin was getting at.
Well it does exist so you are contradicting yourself.

I have, in the past provided for you several different lines of evidence that evolution exists and it seems that despite the complimentary and irrefutable evidence you still ignore the facts

What you have is unfounded creationist mumbo jumbo based on bronze age camp fire stories that supplement your own sensibilities

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#119700 Aug 7, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>If evolution actually existed, I would not have such a problem with it. We have much more evidence for differing kinds from the very beginning of things on earth than we do from very simple single beginnings of life. I will give you that living things change to adapt, but that is not what Darwin was getting at.
Evolution does exist and you DO have a problem with it because it conflicts with your literal interpretation of the bible.

Now even if you god of the bible actually did dictate Genesis, do you really think he would try to explain the Big Bang and the formation of stars and planets along with evolution to people whose common technology was little more than fire, framing and raising sheep and goats???

Or would he tell them a nice bedtime story that they would understand and expect they would figure it out at a much later date?

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#119701 Aug 7, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Before all the case is presented you are trying to dismiss.
What? Is 1600+ years since its canonization not enough time for the Bible and its thumpers to have evidenced its/their veracity without resorting to the compulsive dishonesty as practiced by CARM, AFA, FRC, ICR, DI, et al?

There is no sanity in believing every holy word from Genesis to Revelation represents the divine pinnacle of absolute knowledge - or is even accurate in the mundane. I'll grant that it contains truisms and insights, but it is not the be all and end all of the universe and human existence unless you are willingly or otherwise disconnected from reality.

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