Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223366 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117962 Jul 14, 2014
Naughtyrobot wrote:
Quite a few studies indicate many or most mutations are harmful.
Then present the study that shows the population of humans as a whole is declining in number.
Naughtyrobot wrote:
The humans that I know, started as human cells. The human cells did multipy and diversified into different tissues and were born and bonded with their mother as the suckled at the breast. But they were always human. They did not start out as bacteria or monkeys. Perhaps you started out as a monkey? Cool! Have a banana!
And what defines human, genetically speaking?

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#117963 Jul 14, 2014
Naughtyrobot wrote:
I see what I call micro-evolution, adaptation within a creature's genetic potential. Jumping species seems far fetched to me, I call that macro-evolution.
The Nazis really liked macro-evolution, they had all kinds of propaganda that depicted Jews as sub-human. Dehumanizing was a part of the death camps.
Is morality an evolutionary development, or something else? Just sayin'
Call it what you want, it makes no difference to facts

The hatred of Jews by Nazis was solely political and based on the good catholic Hitlerís belief that the Jews were responsible for the death of Christ

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#117964 Jul 14, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Ofcourse, a Nordic or Northman or woman, must learn English before he or she can become perfect in it, like wise all the main land Europe areas, except in England and the areas influenced by England.
Say what???

http://i.imgur.com/LHFofvA.jpg

The language has changed over the centuries Ė been here before and shown you academic data of the similarity between old English and the Norse languages. The Norse man/woman did not need to learn English they spoke the common langiage

Or are you really so delusional that you think that the people to 1000 years ago spoke the same English language you use today?

“Merry Christmas”

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#117965 Jul 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, but Bo is a very special type of Christian - an American fundamentalist Christian Taliban. They truly think they speak with the authority of God Himself. They can't graspt the idea that their opinions aren't worth a crock. They think they ARE God, though they pretend otherwise.
These are the people that concern me. They want war against the Taliban in Afghanistan while building their own version of the Taliban here. Of course they want war. Get rid of the competition.

Like their namesake, they eschew any education other than their holy book. No math, no science, no choice.

Yeah, I agree with you completely.

“Merry Christmas”

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#117966 Jul 14, 2014
Naughtyrobot wrote:
I see what I call micro-evolution, adaptation within a creature's genetic potential. Jumping species seems far fetched to me, I call that macro-evolution.
The Nazis really liked macro-evolution, they had all kinds of propaganda that depicted Jews as sub-human. Dehumanizing was a part of the death camps.
Is morality an evolutionary development, or something else? Just sayin'
Speciation is jumping. It is generally a long process. From the evidence we have it can take as little as 15,000 years to millions of years. I probably overuse this example, but I like it. The cichlid fish species of Africa's Lake Victoria number around 500 known species that are found nowhere else. Deep core samples taken from places all over the lake show that 15000 years ago, the lake did not exist. It was a grassland with a stream flowing through it. When the lake began to form, there were only one or a few species of cichlid from which these 500 species are derived. This ancestral species rapidly radiated into the vast number of new niches formed by the developing lake. This is further supported by genetic analysis of the current species. The speciation rate may have been faster than 15,000 years, but we don't have data yet to gauge it any better.

The Nazis didn't have any better understanding of evolution than any other radical fundamentalist group. They were massive eugenicists using different political, social and racial groups as their scapegoats. There were over 11 million people killed in their efforts to cleanse the Aryan race. It is only that the largest group consisted of Jewish people. If you jump to communist Russia of the same time, they didn't either and that lead to more deaths from starvation than what Germany did with guns and gas.

There is growing evidence that the basis of our ability to be moral or altruistic is genetic. This is not surprising for a cooperative species. What morality means to us is more subjective and varies depending on where you were born. Vague, but not intentionally so, I am not well read in this area yet.

“Merry Christmas”

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#117967 Jul 14, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Call it what you want, it makes no difference to facts
The hatred of Jews by Nazis was solely political and based on the good catholic Hitlerís belief that the Jews were responsible for the death of Christ
Hitler was very charismatic, like a lot of good fundamentalist leaders. If you can't dazzle them with intellect, get them stirred up and hating someone and they are yours.

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#117968 Jul 14, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Hitler was very charismatic, like a lot of good fundamentalist leaders. If you can't dazzle them with intellect, get them stirred up and hating someone and they are yours.
Religion uses the same trick all the time but on a much younger public (children as opposed to adults)

A whole country followed him to war and accepted his word because.... why...?

Takes a strong personality to rile up that sort of fervour

“Merry Christmas”

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#117969 Jul 14, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion uses the same trick all the time but on a much younger public (children as opposed to adults)
A whole country followed him to war and accepted his word because.... why...?
Takes a strong personality to rile up that sort of fervour
Well don't sell Adolf short, he knew how to hook the kids too. But you are right. The tobacco companies know this too. Get a kid and you have a customer for life.

From my understanding of history and it is by no means all inclusive, it seems a mixture of economic, political and cultural conditions that all came together with chance to start a blaze and that Hitler had a personality that was able to capitalize on these conditions. It didn't hurt him that he surrounded himself with people that were as crazy as he was.

Speaking of strong personalities, I have been reading, enjoying and sometimes wincing at your posts for some time. I see the spark that held the Nazis at bay hasn't left the British people in subsequent generations.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#117970 Jul 14, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Irish from the Word, originated in Ireland.
My mission is not on Irish, but English. Ok?
You are mistaken. The word "Irish" is actually from Old English (Iras).
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#117971 Jul 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Then present the study that shows the population of humans as a whole is declining in number.
<quoted text>
And what defines human, genetically speaking?
.
Why limit the study to humans? Do only humans have mutations?
.
Do we really have to show a study that the number of endangered species is on the rise?
.
If you dispute that this is true then I will find a study. But first take a stand so everyone can see you are wrong in your methods of determining if mutations are harmful and that you are ignorant of declining populations. Additionally your thinking is flawed by tying mutations to declining populations as mutations generally only effect the individual not the population as a whole.

“Be strong ...”

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#117972 Jul 14, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Well don't sell Adolf short, he knew how to hook the kids too. But you are right. The tobacco companies know this too. Get a kid and you have a customer for life.
From my understanding of history and it is by no means all inclusive, it seems a mixture of economic, political and cultural conditions that all came together with chance to start a blaze and that Hitler had a personality that was able to capitalize on these conditions. It didn't hurt him that he surrounded himself with people that were as crazy as he was.
Speaking of strong personalities, I have been reading, enjoying and sometimes wincing at your posts for some time. I see the spark that held the Nazis at bay hasn't left the British people in subsequent generations.
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man" come to mind.

Itís pretty much the same with most despotic leaders Ė the time is right and their personality carries them.

And thanks for the last paragraph comment (I think) although I will ask why wincing?

I canít say Iíd be much good fighting off invasions, people with guns are not usually the best at listening and we did have a lot of help...
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#117973 Jul 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And macro-evolution is adaptation within a creature's genetic potential. What you can personally understand is irrelevant. We've already presented the evidence of speciation on this very thread over the past few days. Therefore either you're ignorant or dishonest about the subject.
<quoted text>
Actually they really hated evolution, for what they did was attempt to restrict genetic diversity. The complete and total opposite of what evolution requires.
Mind you they DID love the theory of gravity, and used it to great effect by dropping bombs on people. Of course this fact has no bearing on the scientific veracity of gravity, same as evolution.
<quoted text>
There is no evidence of anything else.(shrug)
.
<quoted text>
Naughtyrobot wrote:
Is morality an evolutionary development, or something else? Just sayin'
"The Dude"]
There is no evidence of anything else.(shrug)
.
Is this a scientific or religious statement? Is there any scientific proven mechanism that can account for morals developing? Or did the G-d of Evolution do it?

“Merry Christmas”

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#117974 Jul 14, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man" come to mind.
Itís pretty much the same with most despotic leaders Ė the time is right and their personality carries them.
And thanks for the last paragraph comment (I think) although I will ask why wincing?
I canít say Iíd be much good fighting off invasions, people with guns are not usually the best at listening and we did have a lot of help...
You are welcome. I have enjoyed watching you tromp long held male domination myths with a little wincing for my gender, but not that it hasn't been earned over the last thousands of years to one extent or another. I was raised in a very forward thinking family with regards to gender and roles. I never had the male dominated household (leadership was shared) and I have seen some pretty shitty ones and am glad I didn't.

The wincing was vicarious through impact on others and not the message behind the impact (think a little tongue in cheek on my part).

I don't think you need any guns and it is the spirit behind the guns that always counts anyway.

“Merry Christmas”

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#117975 Jul 14, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
<quoted text>
Naughtyrobot wrote:
Is morality an evolutionary development, or something else? Just sayin'
"The Dude"]
There is no evidence of anything else.(shrug)
.
Is this a scientific or religious statement? Is there any scientific proven mechanism that can account for morals developing? Or did the G-d of Evolution do it?
There is no god of evolution. I understand if you have been raised to believe otherwise, but stick around, you may learn something.

Are all behaviors learned? If not, where do they come from? Try and provide an answer with some evidence.
The Dude

Woodford Green, UK

#117978 Jul 14, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
<quoted text>
Naughtyrobot wrote:
Is morality an evolutionary development, or something else? Just sayin'
"The Dude"]
There is no evidence of anything else.(shrug)
.
Is this a scientific or religious statement? Is there any scientific proven mechanism that can account for morals developing? Or did the G-d of Evolution do it?
Oh, it's a scientific statement. We have already provided plenty of evidence for evolution which you fundies are unable to refute. However I am open to the possibility of an alternative if you have evidence of one.
The Dude

London, UK

#117979 Jul 14, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Why limit the study to humans? Do only humans have mutations?
.
Do we really have to show a study that the number of endangered species is on the rise?
.
If you dispute that this is true then I will find a study. But first take a stand so everyone can see you are wrong in your methods of determining if mutations are harmful and that you are ignorant of declining populations. Additionally your thinking is flawed by tying mutations to declining populations as mutations generally only effect the individual not the population as a whole.
Mutations affect the population as ALL are born with mutations, and it's YOUR claim that most mutations are harmful. Ergo this can only inevitably lead to population decline. If not, then obviously most mutations are NOT harmful. I'm sure you can find yourself a cherry picked study, however you may find that the factors that led to population decline were more than just mutations, like hunting, environmental disaster, etc.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#117980 Jul 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, it's a scientific statement. We have already provided plenty of evidence for evolution which you fundies are unable to refute. However I am open to the possibility of an alternative if you have evidence of one.
.
You have not provided evidence of a change between kinds. What you have provided is a change within a kind. This doesn't support that new structures can form like wings. This is an assumption on your part. I don't even see where you have ruled out (by scientific methods) that the ability to change isn't due to already existing cell nucleus material.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#117981 Jul 14, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
You have not provided evidence of a change between kinds. What you have provided is a change within a kind. This doesn't support that new structures can form like wings. This is an assumption on your part. I don't even see where you have ruled out (by scientific methods) that the ability to change isn't due to already existing cell nucleus material.
Evolution does not claim a change of kinds. That is a strawman argument by creationists.

And yes, small slow changes show how wings form. They are not really "new structures". They are merely changes in already existing structures.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#117983 Jul 14, 2014
Wish I had wings. Especially buffalo wings. Soooo hungry.
Chill Out

Beverly, MA

#117985 Jul 14, 2014
This forum has gone on too long and not changing any minds.

Go watch a video: http://m.youtube.com/watch...

Then go out and buy some cupcakes for someone you love and forget about whether or not we crawled out of the sea or were divinely dropped on our heads from heaven.

I can be the hedgehog could not care less how he got here. He is just happy to have a party.

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