Kansas gov vetoes bill on late-term a...

Kansas gov vetoes bill on late-term abortions as she awaits confirmation to US Cabinet job

There are 137 comments on the www.wtkr.com story from Apr 23, 2009, titled Kansas gov vetoes bill on late-term abortions as she awaits confirmation to US Cabinet job. In it, www.wtkr.com reports that:

Gov. Kathleen Sebelius vetoed a bill Thursday that would have rewritten Kansas' restrictions on late-term abortions, questioning whether it was constitutional and suggesting it would cause "intimidation" of doctors.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.wtkr.com.

First Prev
of 7
Next Last

lalalulu

“Serenity...”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#166 Apr 27, 2009
Kay wrote:
<quoted text>
Look, it's THom D. in drag again!
LOLOL!

Sad, but true!

: D
Door King

Moundridge, KS

#168 Apr 28, 2009
There are provisions in the law allowing abortions up to the day of delivery.

How do you know it's the day of delivery? Think about it.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#169 Apr 28, 2009
Door King wrote:
"But I dare you to hold the body of a 24-week old aborted fetus and not have a problem with it yourself." -- Marie
Granted; but still, if the mother is in danger, if the fetus is horribly deformed or unlikely to survive if carried to term, if the mother is the victim of rape, or very, very young, I think you have to opt for the bird in hand rather than the one in the bush. In other words, it's a spreadsheet. Nature and nurture has invested a whole lot in the mother and her other children, and not much in the 24-week fetus. Anyway, it's a quibble. The law already provides fairly stringent protections for the fetus begining (I thought) with the third trimester.
I agree, for the most part. I have worked with women who had been held hostage for days and brutally raped. It would take these women YEARS to even be able to care for themselves, let alone a child - if they even WANTED to keep it. I have also worked with a woman who wanted to carry to term a pregnancy that was a result of rape, but lost the baby. I've also worked with a woman who had multiple abortions ( I don't know if she was pressured by her partner or not) and was suicidal because of guilt and regret that she never had a family. This was an intelligent, high-functioning person. And of course who would want a young girl, whether the victim of rape, incest, or immature judgement to have to carry a baby. The sexual enslavement of young girls all over the world is reason enough for the need for abortion. I hope it is clear, by offering these illustrations, that I see this as a complex issue.

I have never even posted about this online, because I don't know who is looking on, and I have no intention of making any woman feel guilty, much less vilified, for their decisions. I also don't like to discuss it online, since I don't really know who I'm "talking" to. But I have some sense of who you are, and think you can relate sanely to what I will say.

As the law stands, a woman can have an abortion for any reason up until the time of viability - which is in question now as medicine improves the survival rate of premies. Abortion at this point, for only reasons of birth control, is something I have a problem with, for a number of reasons. If you go to a website whose intent is not political, but one that is intended to help a woman care for herself and her baby, and look at a picture of a fetus even at 18, and especially at 20 weeks, it is clearly a small human being - a living creature, an animal if you will. We have laws to protect cruelty against animals, unless we are going to eat or trap them I guess. I haven't found an article yet that definitively convinces me at what point the fetus can feel pain. At this point, a woman should have long and hard about an abortion if it is only for birth control. I know the great percentage of abortions are performed in the first trimester, but it still bothers me that our law allows a pregnancy to be terminated, for any reason, in the latter weeks of the second trimester. Imagine what you are asking a doctor to do at that point. They of course, have to "volunteer" in the sense that they have to undergo training to perform the procedure, and this is their choice (unless I suppose they are pressured by their group practice or hospital to do so). Do you ever feel burned a your job? I have worked for years in a hospital setting and have heard plenty of doctors complain about being tired of doing any number of things. Imagine what doctors (PAs or ARNPs) who perform abortions must experience.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#170 Apr 28, 2009
lalalulu wrote:
<quoted text>

I hate abortion. I want it to end, forever.
I know it won't end, however, so, I advocate for better contraceptive availability and better, more comprehensive pre-teen education....more like "reality ed". I want these kids to know - before they engage in sex or are tempted to do so - what each gestational stage looks like, the benefits of abstinence, what STDs do to you, how and why contraception works and doesn't work, what you will potentially feel/experience if you keep/adopt/abort a pregnancy.
I want them to be *informed*. I want them to be *prepared*, so that when they do engage in sex, if a pregnancy occurs, they are more likely to make a healthy choice that's right for them.
My goal is to *prevent* unwanted pregnancies, thus reducing the likelihood that abortion will be a "choice".
I lobby *actively* for this initiative.
FYI.
THANK YOU !! I am very grateful to see this.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#171 Apr 28, 2009
BTW- There is a "ceremony" in the Bible to produce an abortion

Numbers 5: 11-31

although it is actually meant as a curse to punish a wife for adultery - not only cause her to miscarry, but to also be left barren if she is guilty.

lalalulu

“Serenity...”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#175 Apr 28, 2009
Marie wrote:
<quoted text>
THANK YOU !! I am very grateful to see this.
Glad to hear it.

I saw your post re: concerns about pain pre-viability, and your displeasure with the law's allowing women to end a pregnancy for "any reason" into the second trimester, even though uncommon.

I agree. Personally, I would prefer to see limits on abortion such that it can not be performed (save for the protection of the health/life of the mother and if the fetus is dying) past the first trimester. IMO, 12 weeks is sufficient time to know how one should proceed. I know there are some diagnoses that can not be performed that early in the pregnancy, however, so the ability to have it later due to these reasons should remain.

I have seen considerable, credible data to support the lack of sufficient capability for the brain to process pain prior to 20 weeks. The necessary structures simply aren't functioning prior to this.

Here is a brief synopsis:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/29...

This one is far more comprehensive, but trickier to get through:

http://brainmind.com/FetalBrainDevelopment.ht...

The whole issue of pain has always bothered me, so I read as much as possible about it from reliable sources. I wish it could be put to rest once and for all.

Finally, I welcome the day when non-surgical abortion is the norm. Where an unwanted pregnancy is detected and ended exclusively prior to implantation. Ideally, I'd love to see 100% effective BC - other than abstinence, of course. I recognize that mankind has sex drives for a reason, and to expect them to abstain is simply unrealistic.

Thanks for listening.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#176 Apr 28, 2009
lalalulu wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad to hear it.
I saw your post re: concerns about pain pre-viability, and your displeasure with the law's allowing women to end a pregnancy for "any reason" into the second trimester, even though uncommon.
I agree. Personally, I would prefer to see limits on abortion such that it can not be performed (save for the protection of the health/life of the mother and if the fetus is dying) past the first trimester. IMO, 12 weeks is sufficient time to know how one should proceed. I know there are some diagnoses that can not be performed that early in the pregnancy, however, so the ability to have it later due to these reasons should remain.
I have seen considerable, credible data to support the lack of sufficient capability for the brain to process pain prior to 20 weeks. The necessary structures simply aren't functioning prior to this.
Here is a brief synopsis:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/29...
This one is far more comprehensive, but trickier to get through:
http://brainmind.com/FetalBrainDevelopment.ht...
The whole issue of pain has always bothered me, so I read as much as possible about it from reliable sources. I wish it could be put to rest once and for all.
Finally, I welcome the day when non-surgical abortion is the norm. Where an unwanted pregnancy is detected and ended exclusively prior to implantation. Ideally, I'd love to see 100% effective BC - other than abstinence, of course. I recognize that mankind has sex drives for a reason, and to expect them to abstain is simply unrealistic.
Thanks for listening.
THANK YOU !!!!! HUGE SIGH OF RELIEF !! I have been waiting for months for this !! I still waffle on second trimester abortions for victims of rape or incest - especially younger ones, or ones who have been held captive or enslaved -(think what it does to the gene pool). I hate the clinical way we have to speak of these things, but that is reality.

I have some thoughts on the ultrasound law, and will leave them on that thread when I have some more time.

And just to let you know, Thom D. and I have wrangled many times in the past, on many topics - more than you might imagine, and more than he and I would care to remember. Eventually you find yourself sitting and screaming at a person, and you become aware of the insanity of it, and come to see them as another human being, struggling with their own difficult process of being human. I don't mean to be condescending in that, and hope that it doesn't come across that way.

Thanks again for your efforts and willingness to contribute.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#177 Apr 28, 2009
lalalulu wrote:
<quoted text>

Finally, I welcome the day when non-surgical abortion is the norm. Where an unwanted pregnancy is detected and ended exclusively prior to implantation. Ideally, I'd love to see 100% effective BC - other than abstinence, of course. I recognize that mankind has sex drives for a reason, and to expect them to abstain is simply unrealistic.
Thanks for listening.
As the stigma falls away and the education takes hold, hopefully we can get closer to that day. That is what all sides want, or at least would prefer, to our current situation.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#178 Apr 28, 2009
DCLawDawg666 wrote:
<<Oh, come on, lady, you're not pro-choice. Stop lying. >>
I really wish you would find something more useful to do in your retirement. There's plenty of Native Americans / issues in need of a good lawyer.
Senator Trent Lott

Saint Petersburg, FL

#179 Apr 28, 2009
It was Senator John McCain who said last year, " I'm just plain tired of smelling Sarah Palin's farts. "

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg38/hunto...

lalalulu

“Serenity...”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#180 Apr 28, 2009
Marie wrote:
<quoted text>
THANK YOU !!!!! HUGE SIGH OF RELIEF !! I have been waiting for months for this !! I still waffle on second trimester abortions for victims of rape or incest - especially younger ones, or ones who have been held captive or enslaved -(think what it does to the gene pool). I hate the clinical way we have to speak of these things, but that is reality.
I have some thoughts on the ultrasound law, and will leave them on that thread when I have some more time.
And just to let you know, Thom D. and I have wrangled many times in the past, on many topics - more than you might imagine, and more than he and I would care to remember. Eventually you find yourself sitting and screaming at a person, and you become aware of the insanity of it, and come to see them as another human being, struggling with their own difficult process of being human. I don't mean to be condescending in that, and hope that it doesn't come across that way.
Thanks again for your efforts and willingness to contribute.
I'm glad we've been able to put the "uglies" behind us, marie. Just so you know, many, many PC feel very much the same way I do. We just get demonized and frustrated by what I see as many PL not willing to truly "listen" to what we are trying to say.

You don't sound condescending in the least. I've had screaming issues with a number of PL on here, some can be reconciled, some I have no desire to reconcile. I see that all they want to do is control women (in the final analysis) and I can't get past that. I posted some wonderful, well-researched, unbiased links and tried to communicate normally with him, but he came back at me with those idiotic YouTubes, shoving them at me and acting really juvenile. So, I gave up with him. He's not my cup of tea, marie. Sorry.

lalalulu

“Serenity...”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#181 Apr 28, 2009
Marie wrote:
<quoted text>
As the stigma falls away and the education takes hold, hopefully we can get closer to that day. That is what all sides want, or at least would prefer, to our current situation.
I think it's more than that, though.
For one thing, we have a number of PL that believe life begins at conception, and will never agree to Plan B. Not that they *need* to agree to it, but they will always fight it.
Furthermore, there is the underlying current of *control*. You won't hear anyone admit it, but there are quite a few PL for whom it has nothing to do with the fetus, and everything to do with preventing women from having sex for pleasure/casual sex.
Regardless, I see us heading in a more educated direction, and that is most assuredly a good thing!
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#182 Apr 28, 2009
lalalulu wrote:
<quoted text>
So, I gave up with him. Sorry.
I understand.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#183 Apr 28, 2009
lalalulu wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it's more than that, though.
For one thing, we have a number of PL that believe life begins at conception, and will never agree to Plan B. Not that they *need* to agree to it, but they will always fight it.
Furthermore, there is the underlying current of *control*. You won't hear anyone admit it, but there are quite a few PL for whom it has nothing to do with the fetus, and everything to do with preventing women from having sex for pleasure/casual sex.
Regardless, I see us heading in a more educated direction, and that is most assuredly a good thing!
Also understood. All of which leaves both "sides," and those in between, in an antagonistic position. The more we can focus on the common goal of unwanted pregnancies, and I know everyone will have different solutions for that, the better - at least that is the way it looks to me.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#184 Apr 28, 2009
Senator Trent Lott wrote:
It was Senator John McCain who said last year, " I'm just plain tired of smelling Sarah Palin's farts. "
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg38/hunto...
Yeah! Just let 'em out - but try to find an empty, unoccupied space.
Marie

Overland Park, KS

#185 Apr 28, 2009
Senator Trent Lott wrote:
It was Senator John McCain who said last year, " I'm just plain tired of smelling Sarah Palin's farts. "
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg38/hunto...
This is hysterical. Take a look. It's a cartoon with the caption:

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:

Never hold your farts in.
They travel up your spine, into your brain,
and that is where shitty ideas come from !!!!

lalalulu

“Serenity...”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#186 Apr 28, 2009
Marie wrote:
<quoted text>
This is hysterical. Take a look. It's a cartoon with the caption:
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:
Never hold your farts in.
They travel up your spine, into your brain,
and that is where shitty ideas come from !!!!
Ah! And I was wondering!

I do hope they hold them in while on an airplane and sitting next to me, though!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 7
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Kathleen Sebelius Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Kan. gov, utility CEO announce deal on coal pla... (May '09) Apr '16 litesong 65
News A Kansas group's push to oust judges exposes a ... (Oct '14) Oct '14 Ace McMillan 1
News The Power of Chirlane McCray (May '14) May '14 Guest 1
News Spokeswoman: Sebelius Not Considering US Senate (Apr '14) Apr '14 conservative crapola 19
News Kathleen Sebelius to Resign HHS Post (Apr '14) Apr '14 Le Jimbo 51
News Senate Democrats upbeat about confirming Burwell (Apr '14) Apr '14 Sterkfontei Swart... 2
News Sebelius a finalist for Timea s Person of the Year (Dec '13) Dec '13 Eddie 1