Liberty Counsel Threatens to Sue if California's Governor Brown Signs Ban on 'Ex-gay' Therapy

Sep 3, 2012 Full story: Fire Dog Lake 80

Mat Staver and these charlatans are only looking for attention. I can't fathom that they want to take on the merits of conversion/reparative therapy - long discredited - to "pray away the gay" to court.

Full Story
hi hi

Lancaster, PA

#22 Sep 4, 2012
I will say this one time.

Let. them. sue.

Slaughter. them. in. court.

They wanna sue? WELCOME it. DARE them. ENCOURAGE it. And then get numerous experts in court to *annihilate to sewage* their lies and their disingenuity, their mendacity, their constant attempt to *FORCE* their anti-human values upon innocent people. Bury them.

Let them do it.

And remind them that they asked for what comes next.
hi hi

Lancaster, PA

#23 Sep 4, 2012
Spike wrote:
If therapy to treat homosexual dis-order could help homosexuals like Jerry Sandusky to stop molesting children, wouldn't it be worth it to save a child?
THIS is why you should let them sue. Imagine introducing this in court, from the antigay.

You realize what would happen?

Experts could testify that the antigay *constantly* say these mendacious things; that experts *worldwide* do not equate pedophilia with orientation; that one is an orientation and the other, a behavior; that it is *only* the antigay who constantly attempt to equate the two; that they do this for well, well, well-documented reasons that have to do with antigay vitriol and hatred; and so on.

LET them make these statements in court, if they dare. Science and sociology and biology and medicine and psychotherapy can *bury* them.
hi hi

Lancaster, PA

#24 Sep 4, 2012
Righteous Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>I'm curious why you queers claims Sandusky is a hetero molester and not one of you queers. Example: if sandusky is raping (showering) with a 17 year old boy and the boy turns 18 right before Jerry comes, is Jerry still a hetero molester or does he become gay at that time?
Naah, your issue is with the *age of consent*. You're trying to mix that into this, thinking, "Oh, they won't have a response!" I do.

I'm not the one who invented the age of consent.

Nor are you.

Nor is anyone on this board.

Therefore, according to the *LAW*(ever hear of it?), Sandusky would be engaging with a male at the moment of ejaculation. But you overlook the fact that *YOUR EXAMPLE* claims he started when the boy was 17.

You also made a huuuge mistake with your example.

In *your example*, all other fact aside, Sandusky engaged with *ONE MALE*. To presume he is *GAY* on that basis ...

... is antigay logic, not pro-gay logic.

YOU know how the antigay behave, right? If a male *looks at* another male for more than 0.5 seconds, he *must be gay*.

Try a better example, and not one that can be shot full of holes.

Thanks.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#25 Sep 4, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have the actual statistics on hand, but people have died from chiropractics, though not called homeopathy it is, acupuncture. There have been severe medical damages to patients who were pushed into homeopathic "herbal" remedies due to not receiving important medicine because they thought it would work. Most importantly, there is no oversight for anything that is considered homeopathy by the FDA. Most damages are because of neglect of proper health care due to the placebo effects and careless practitioners. A biologist did a video on YouTube about them, it's some scary stuff too since it goes relatively unreported in the media.
I'll take your word for it for the moment, since I don't really have the time right now to check it out. But I have to tell you, I won't give up my chiropractor any time soon. I need him for my back and shoulders. But if he suggests acupuncture, I will make a beeline out the door.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#26 Sep 4, 2012
Righteous Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>I'm curious why you queers claims Sandusky is a hetero molester and not one of you queers. Example: if sandusky is raping (showering) with a 17 year old boy and the boy turns 18 right before Jerry comes, is Jerry still a hetero molester or does he become gay at that time?
It is Jerry Sandusky himself who claims he is a heterosexual. His wife agrees.

Case closed.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#27 Sep 4, 2012
fr Roisia:

>First let me state. I think that ex gay therapy is not right. However. I think banning it all together is going a bit too far. It takes away the persons ability to make their own choice.
I think in the end it would be much more beneficial if it was regulated and like abortion forced to have teaching, and information in this case on the scietific value of this treatment. Which is that it is usually proved wrong.<

Kids are being FORCED into this FAKE "therapy", for one thing. For another, no REAL REPUTABLE therapist practices it, because it is extremely dangerous.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#28 Sep 4, 2012
fr Righteous Mayor:

>I'm curious why you queers claims Sandusky is a hetero molester and not one of you queers. Example: if sandusky is raping (showering) with a 17 year old boy and the boy turns 18 right before Jerry comes, is Jerry still a hetero molester or does he become gay at that time?<

Sandusky and his wife both state that he is STRAIGHT. 99% of all molesters identify as STRAIGHT men.
Hoodathunkit

Mount Gilead, OH

#29 Sep 4, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have the actual statistics on hand, but people have died from chiropractics, though not called homeopathy it is, acupuncture. There have been severe medical damages to patients who were pushed into homeopathic "herbal" remedies due to not receiving important medicine because they thought it would work. Most importantly, there is no oversight for anything that is considered homeopathy by the FDA. Most damages are because of neglect of proper health care due to the placebo effects and careless practitioners. A biologist did a video on YouTube about them, it's some scary stuff too since it goes relatively unreported in the media.
Herbal medicine does have its place. Many medicines have their roots in herbal remedies. People used to chew willow bark or spirea twigs to alleviate headaches, toothaches, and other pains: that led to aspirin. People used foxglove as a remedy for various illnesses and that led to the discovery of digitalis. Some doctors recommend the usage of some old fashioned herbal remedies. Valerian root is called nature's valium because it mellows or calms people. It smells like old socks and has a bit of a nasty taste but it doesn't have the side effects of valium. I've used golden seal to get rid of sore throats since I was a kid. It tastes nasty but it works quickly. Taking primrose oil on a regular basis eases joint pain from arthritis. Sniffing mint oil helps ease headaches due to sinus problems. Mint oil contains a substance that shrinks swollen blood vessals around the sinuses. Some stuff works, some doesn't. Chewing cloves helps alleviate toothaches; at least for a day or so until you can get to the dentist. An interesting thing about reading about herbal cures is the knowledge about common herbs and spices. I love the taste of nutmeg however it is a toxic herb. Eating a whole nutmeg will most likely result in death. I wouldn't recommend using herbal cures for everything but there are some that work for minor issues.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#30 Sep 4, 2012
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree, if the therapy did no harm. I would compare these practitioners with the snake-oil salesmen of the late 1800's and early 1900's, pedaling all kinds of dangerous "cures" for life-threatening illnesses. Someone had to step in and make it illegal.
We allow many things that does harm. I hate to say it. But abortion is one of them. It can harm the body. We allow smoking, we allow, religions that have been proven to be harmful. I'm not saying christianity, or judaism, or even islam. But some sects of christianity, Some sects of wicca, Different sects of different religion.

I feel that For adults. This choice is a choice based on their beliefs. If they want to do it who am I to stop them. I dont want them to stop me from being transgender. Let me tell you about transexualism. It is actually very dangerous. I'm not talking about the danger of being attacked, Or murdered, or any of that. The hormones greatly increase your chance of having heart disease, Blood clots, and breast cancer. And thats just the hormone therapy. The surgery is extreemely dangerous the surgeons are working very close to your Femoral artery. One small move and they could just nick that and you bleed out.

We may not agree with certain practices. But who are we to tell consenting adults how to live their lives. To ban these ex gay therapies we would be no better than those who try to ban me from taking my path, or those you try to ban you from yours.

I know this is not a popular view. But its not one that I can walk away from. I feel that there should be a for lack of better term warning label of the dangers associated with this practice and education should be required. However If after all that the consenting adult wants to continue. Then that is their decision and they should be supported.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#31 Sep 4, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
They still sell such "cures" only now it's called homeopathy. ;)
Actually many homeopathic cures have been scientifically proven to work. This actually puts nurses at a difficult position. Because we now have to look at these when considering other medications. St johns wart is a notorious one for this.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#32 Sep 4, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have the actual statistics on hand, but people have died from chiropractics, though not called homeopathy it is, acupuncture. There have been severe medical damages to patients who were pushed into homeopathic "herbal" remedies due to not receiving important medicine because they thought it would work. Most importantly, there is no oversight for anything that is considered homeopathy by the FDA. Most damages are because of neglect of proper health care due to the placebo effects and careless practitioners. A biologist did a video on YouTube about them, it's some scary stuff too since it goes relatively unreported in the media.
Once again this is true. However not of all homeopathic things.

When I as a young one. I had a condition called sciatica, It is where the sciatic nerve is pinched. It was so bad that I couldn't bear weight on that leg. I went to see a chiropractor, who just happened to be my aunt, I have a reassurance about once every 2 years for a day and it goes away now.

However that being said. When choosing a chiropractor it is important to choose one that only works with bones, There are some claiming they can cure diabetes with chiropractic care and they are very wrong.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#33 Sep 4, 2012
Pattysboi wrote:
fr Roisia:
>First let me state. I think that ex gay therapy is not right. However. I think banning it all together is going a bit too far. It takes away the persons ability to make their own choice.
I think in the end it would be much more beneficial if it was regulated and like abortion forced to have teaching, and information in this case on the scietific value of this treatment. Which is that it is usually proved wrong.<
Kids are being FORCED into this FAKE "therapy", for one thing. For another, no REAL REPUTABLE therapist practices it, because it is extremely dangerous.
I apologize. I may not have been clear about this. I am not for this being forced on children. However I think consenting adults should have the right to seek this type of therapy if they so feel it is the best for them.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#34 Sep 4, 2012
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
We allow many things that does harm. I hate to say it. But abortion is one of them. It can harm the body. We allow smoking, we allow, religions that have been proven to be harmful. I'm not saying christianity, or judaism, or even islam. But some sects of christianity, Some sects of wicca, Different sects of different religion.
I feel that For adults. This choice is a choice based on their beliefs. If they want to do it who am I to stop them. I dont want them to stop me from being transgender. Let me tell you about transexualism. It is actually very dangerous. I'm not talking about the danger of being attacked, Or murdered, or any of that. The hormones greatly increase your chance of having heart disease, Blood clots, and breast cancer. And thats just the hormone therapy. The surgery is extreemely dangerous the surgeons are working very close to your Femoral artery. One small move and they could just nick that and you bleed out.
We may not agree with certain practices. But who are we to tell consenting adults how to live their lives. To ban these ex gay therapies we would be no better than those who try to ban me from taking my path, or those you try to ban you from yours.
I know this is not a popular view. But its not one that I can walk away from. I feel that there should be a for lack of better term warning label of the dangers associated with this practice and education should be required. However If after all that the consenting adult wants to continue. Then that is their decision and they should be supported.
The law as written already allows for everything you argue for here.

Sounds like you're a supported of the bill.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#35 Sep 4, 2012
Ok so I feel I should make my position clear. I do not have the right to force people what to believe, how to act, or what they should do. I have the right to express my views and follow the path I feel is best for myself. I dont have all the answers so If I would be God and I'm pretty sure i'm not. That being said I cant say what is right for another person.

I will fight against gay rights if I feel that they are infringing on another persons rights, In the same breath I will do the same with religious rights.

Hell I have fought against my own rights just because the law was infringing on the rights of those who are religious.

I know this is not a popular stance. I know that this gives me enemies not only in other groups but in my group aswell.

In the end I am first and foremost and American. I believe in freedom. But I believe even more If i want to be treated a certain way I need to treat those that I disagree with that way.

In this case. That is I wouldnt want my right to seek treatment that I feel will better my life no matter how harmful taken way. And the path I have chosen can lead to death. Therefore I will not take that path away from consenting adults.

Children I am ok with banning this treatment. Because they are not consenting adults.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#37 Sep 5, 2012
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll take your word for it for the moment, since I don't really have the time right now to check it out. But I have to tell you, I won't give up my chiropractor any time soon. I need him for my back and shoulders. But if he suggests acupuncture, I will make a beeline out the door.
Well, massage can be helpful, and many chiropractors are just massage therapists now, the whole "aligning" has caused a lot of medical malpractice it's becoming harder to get insurance for those. Just be careful, if he starts things like making you twist into positions that put stress on your spine in any way, you should look into it. But yeah, acupuncture has had cases of needles breaking off in skin and working their way to vital organs, needles penetrating skin and lodging into bone, and other pretty horrific cases, sometimes resulting in death. Infections are also very common as a result of acupuncture, so I don't blame you. Any doctor recommending homeopathy should lose their license.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#38 Sep 5, 2012
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again this is true. However not of all homeopathic things.
When I as a young one. I had a condition called sciatica, It is where the sciatic nerve is pinched. It was so bad that I couldn't bear weight on that leg. I went to see a chiropractor, who just happened to be my aunt, I have a reassurance about once every 2 years for a day and it goes away now.
However that being said. When choosing a chiropractor it is important to choose one that only works with bones, There are some claiming they can cure diabetes with chiropractic care and they are very wrong.
Sciatica also often works itself out on it's own, or the nerve dies eventually and then you stop feeling it. The spine is a series of bones, and one that encases very delicate nerves, just twisting it will put you in risk of having many vital nerve placed into very dangerous locations. Unless these procedure are done while a CT scan is showing the precise positions and such, it's guess work. No two humans, no two animals of any species for that matter, will have nerves or blood vessels in the same locations, and that is one of the flaws in chiropractics, they assume everyone is the same. Many of the positive effects can be accomplished just by changing routine habits, such as not placing your elbows on tables, or for some people placing your elbows on tables, or using different shapes of keyboards, or chairs, or not lounging, any number of things. Often the best advice is to just try to shift your weight to different locations.

I have sciatica in my left elbow, a nerve ending passes too close to where the bones join and it's so easy to get the nerve into the joint itself I often get numbness or pain in my entire left arm just by placing my elbow on the table too long for a few minutes. It lasts several months, but the only way it goes away is by not placing my elbow on flat hard surfaces, but it always goes away on it's own. Massaging it will relieve the pain, if there is any, for up to a few weeks at a time because it restores regular blood flow. This is not an uncommon thing either, one of the forms of personal care that I do endorse is yoga, it's the same effect but you learn how to do it yourself, so you can avoid overstepping your own limits, something chiropractors won't know. ;)

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#39 Sep 5, 2012
Roisia wrote:
Ok so I feel I should make my position clear. I do not have the right to force people what to believe, how to act, or what they should do. I have the right to express my views and follow the path I feel is best for myself. I dont have all the answers so If I would be God and I'm pretty sure i'm not. That being said I cant say what is right for another person.
I will fight against gay rights if I feel that they are infringing on another persons rights, In the same breath I will do the same with religious rights.
Hell I have fought against my own rights just because the law was infringing on the rights of those who are religious.
I know this is not a popular stance. I know that this gives me enemies not only in other groups but in my group aswell.
In the end I am first and foremost and American. I believe in freedom. But I believe even more If i want to be treated a certain way I need to treat those that I disagree with that way.
In this case. That is I wouldnt want my right to seek treatment that I feel will better my life no matter how harmful taken way. And the path I have chosen can lead to death. Therefore I will not take that path away from consenting adults.
Children I am ok with banning this treatment. Because they are not consenting adults.
That's just it, gay rights does not infringe on other people's rights, at all. It's an excuse used by bigots to overstep their rights and trick people into fighting against gay rights, or anyone other rights for that matter.

Society has enforced stereotypes on the minority groups far too much, and this must end. Because of this some people are denying who and what they are simply because society itself has made the fallacious claim that there is something wrong with them, a short term ban on something like this will prevent the culmination of the two phenomena from doing harm to people who really just need to learn to accept themselves. More harm is done to a person when you force or convince them to deny themselves than allowing them to be who and what they are.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#40 Sep 5, 2012
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
We allow many things that does harm. I hate to say it. But abortion is one of them. It can harm the body. We allow smoking, we allow, religions that have been proven to be harmful. I'm not saying christianity, or judaism, or even islam. But some sects of christianity, Some sects of wicca, Different sects of different religion.
I feel that For adults. This choice is a choice based on their beliefs. If they want to do it who am I to stop them. I dont want them to stop me from being transgender. Let me tell you about transexualism. It is actually very dangerous. I'm not talking about the danger of being attacked, Or murdered, or any of that. The hormones greatly increase your chance of having heart disease, Blood clots, and breast cancer. And thats just the hormone therapy. The surgery is extreemely dangerous the surgeons are working very close to your Femoral artery. One small move and they could just nick that and you bleed out.
We may not agree with certain practices. But who are we to tell consenting adults how to live their lives. To ban these ex gay therapies we would be no better than those who try to ban me from taking my path, or those you try to ban you from yours.
I know this is not a popular view. But its not one that I can walk away from. I feel that there should be a for lack of better term warning label of the dangers associated with this practice and education should be required. However If after all that the consenting adult wants to continue. Then that is their decision and they should be supported.
I must admit that I am terribly ignorant on the issues facing trans folks, and what you have said is enlightening. As to the alternative medicines, I would agree, but even tho they have their uses, I would think it is better to research them properly so that people are well-informed, if they care to be. I'd hate to take something for a headache, and wake up dead.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#41 Sep 5, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Sciatica also often works itself out on it's own, or the nerve dies eventually and then you stop feeling it. The spine is a series of bones, and one that encases very delicate nerves, just twisting it will put you in risk of having many vital nerve placed into very dangerous locations. Unless these procedure are done while a CT scan is showing the precise positions and such, it's guess work. No two humans, no two animals of any species for that matter, will have nerves or blood vessels in the same locations, and that is one of the flaws in chiropractics, they assume everyone is the same. Many of the positive effects can be accomplished just by changing routine habits, such as not placing your elbows on tables, or for some people placing your elbows on tables, or using different shapes of keyboards, or chairs, or not lounging, any number of things. Often the best advice is to just try to shift your weight to different locations.
I have sciatica in my left elbow, a nerve ending passes too close to where the bones join and it's so easy to get the nerve into the joint itself I often get numbness or pain in my entire left arm just by placing my elbow on the table too long for a few minutes. It lasts several months, but the only way it goes away is by not placing my elbow on flat hard surfaces, but it always goes away on it's own. Massaging it will relieve the pain, if there is any, for up to a few weeks at a time because it restores regular blood flow. This is not an uncommon thing either, one of the forms of personal care that I do endorse is yoga, it's the same effect but you learn how to do it yourself, so you can avoid overstepping your own limits, something chiropractors won't know. ;)
Ok so I am curious as to how you can have sciatica when your sciatic nerve is in your leg. You may have some other painful disorder but not sciatica. As for what works for you that is great. However I can tell you as a nursing student that many alternative medicines do work. I have given you my personal experience.

Are they safe. That is very questionable. Research is important. But do some work. Yes very much so.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#42 Sep 5, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That's just it, gay rights does not infringe on other people's rights, at all. It's an excuse used by bigots to overstep their rights and trick people into fighting against gay rights, or anyone other rights for that matter.
Society has enforced stereotypes on the minority groups far too much, and this must end. Because of this some people are denying who and what they are simply because society itself has made the fallacious claim that there is something wrong with them, a short term ban on something like this will prevent the culmination of the two phenomena from doing harm to people who really just need to learn to accept themselves. More harm is done to a person when you force or convince them to deny themselves than allowing them to be who and what they are.
Actually some laws in the name of LGBT rights have infringed on others rights. One of them where I live. A law that allows trans women who have not had the surgery to use the womans locker rooms. Which by the way is different than the womans room. In the womans room the gender stays behind closed doors. However in the womens locker room it is there for all to see. It forces transexuality into the lives of those women in a way that cant be pushed off as privacy. And it also puts it off on the children in the locker room. Which infringes on a parents right to explain the difference between the sexes in their own time.

I wish i could say that transexuals are smart enough to use the locker rooms wisely but also a case in my state has proven this wrong. When a transgender woman took a public shower next to a Cisgendered women with her male bits dangling about.

This is why many laws were changed in a way that bared us from an easier transition for years in this state.

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