Death penalty

Death penalty

There are 89 comments on the The Washington Post story from Apr 24, 2012, titled Death penalty. In it, The Washington Post reports that:

Dan Malloy within the next few days, Connecticut would become the 17th state to repeal the death penalty and the fifth in the past five years.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Washington Post.

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Justice Served

Carmel, ME

#81 Apr 29, 2012
Nicole wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said, and I agree with most of what you said. I don't consider myself religious either and I used to be totally pro death penalty. Then I went to a Catholic high school and got all confused! There are a few things I agree with in Catholicism but disagree am still confused with a lot of it. I guess I'm trying to be rational and come up with a solution so I can stop racking my brain with this. But I guess there will never be a solution that will make everyone happy, like you said, you just have to believe what you feel is pest for your peace of mind.
I'm not sure if you, or anyone, can answer this, but if God created us, why did he create murderers, rapists, etc.?
God created us, but we are like children that are prone to misbehave. I love my kids, but sometimes they do things I don't like. But my love for them is like God's love for all of us-it's unconditional. Because it is unconditional, we are allowed to make choices in how we live. A baby is not born to be a murderer, rapist, or child molester. This type of behavior is learned, but it is not written in stone that we have to adopt all the behaviors we are exposed to. Therefore, we are able to decide on our own which behaviors are good or bad. God, like any good father, tries to help us pick the right and good way to live, but there are distractions that are evil in nature, and appeal to our baser instincts. That creates the fine line-one which can be crossed so effortessly to the evil side. It is a fact that most crimes against people are motivated by the use and abuse of drugs. But there is also the emotions-anger, jealousy, fear, ego. They can be very powerful and persuasive in commiting a horrible act, it can happen before you know it, then the line is crossed-no going back.

But too many times God gets the blame for all the bad things that happen in the world. On occassion some folks will blame satan, or aliens from outer space. I know many people ask how God could have allowed 911 happen? God didn't plan 911, He didn't prepare the 911 attack, and He didn't fly those planes into the ground or buildings. Stop and think. If God is as powerful as He claims to be, why would He use a 911 event to make a point? He has the power to cause great earthquakes that could break a large portion off the state of California and plunge it into the Pacific Ocean, killing hundreds of thousands in the blink of an eye.

No Nicole, we are our own worst enemies. We don't listen to the inner spirit much anymore. Too bad more people like you don't start the search as soon as you did. We are only passing through-why not make it a good trip?
Nicole

San Jose, CA

#82 Apr 29, 2012
Justice Served wrote:
<quoted text>
God created us, but we are like children that are prone to misbehave. I love my kids, but sometimes they do things I don't like. But my love for them is like God's love for all of us-it's unconditional. Because it is unconditional, we are allowed to make choices in how we live. A baby is not born to be a murderer, rapist, or child molester. This type of behavior is learned, but it is not written in stone that we have to adopt all the behaviors we are exposed to. Therefore, we are able to decide on our own which behaviors are good or bad. God, like any good father, tries to help us pick the right and good way to live, but there are distractions that are evil in nature, and appeal to our baser instincts. That creates the fine line-one which can be crossed so effortessly to the evil side. It is a fact that most crimes against people are motivated by the use and abuse of drugs. But there is also the emotions-anger, jealousy, fear, ego. They can be very powerful and persuasive in commiting a horrible act, it can happen before you know it, then the line is crossed-no going back.
But too many times God gets the blame for all the bad things that happen in the world. On occassion some folks will blame satan, or aliens from outer space. I know many people ask how God could have allowed 911 happen? God didn't plan 911, He didn't prepare the 911 attack, and He didn't fly those planes into the ground or buildings. Stop and think. If God is as powerful as He claims to be, why would He use a 911 event to make a point? He has the power to cause great earthquakes that could break a large portion off the state of California and plunge it into the Pacific Ocean, killing hundreds of thousands in the blink of an eye.
No Nicole, we are our own worst enemies. We don't listen to the inner spirit much anymore. Too bad more people like you don't start the search as soon as you did. We are only passing through-why not make it a good trip?
That was very insightful. Who knew I could learn more on this website than I do in class... haha. So you said in a previous response that you used to be against the death penalty, I'm just wondering what changed your mind. If you don't mind sharing :)

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#83 Apr 29, 2012
Nicole wrote:
<quoted text>
...When you say they murder again, who do they murder?
Other inmates, guards, escaped and murdered again.

Here are my notes on ONE of the executed.

NAME: VICKERS, ROBERT WAYNE
DATE OF EXEC.: 1999/05/05 NUMBER: 543
SPECIAL LIST: MURDERS IN PRISON (DEATH ROW)
DATE OF CRIME: 1978/10/04
NO. KILLED: 1 TOTAL KILLED: 2
CMTS#1: WILMER "BUSTER" HOLSINGER (55), burned to death, death row prisoner, set on fire w/ hair tonic, 82/03/04 1st 82/10/18 2nd 86/04/24 (DEATH)
--made comments about his 11y.o. niece
FRANK PONCIANO [WM21], cellmate for 2 weeks, didn't wake him for lunch, drank his Kool-aid, strangled, stabbed, & carved "Bonzai" on his back
--called officer to remove the body [D->N.T.O.](not retried in this case)

“Look at all the piggies”

Since: Sep 07

with their piggy wives....

#84 Apr 29, 2012
Justice Served wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, maybe you can explain Thessalonians, Chapter 5, Verse 15, "See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but forever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men."
We Christians can claim all the goodness there is, but the fact is Jesus was a Jew. And a violation of Jewish law has a fit Jewish punishment. One of the punishments for wrongfully taking another's life, is the use of stoning a convicted person to death. I think Jesus once stated something to the effect that He had not come to "change the law", but "to fulfill it". Anyone who violates mankinds' capital laws flirts with the possibility of facing execution as a punishment. Anyone who violated God's capital laws flirts with eternal execution of their soul.
Jesus did say to love your enemies, but I don't think the murderer of your small son, or daughter, is going to qualify as an "enemy".
And if we are created in the image of God, and God hates a murderer and will cause the murderer to suffer death of flesh and soul, why am I held to a different standard when it comes to sanctioning the death penalty?
I can't explain anything Paul wrote.
"Vengeance is mine, says the Lord, I will repay" (Rom. 12:19)

I like this from Sister Helen Prejean:
"I cannot believe in a God who metes out hurt for hurt, pain for pain, torture for torture. Nor do I believe that God invests human representatives with such power to torture and kill. The paths of history are stained with the blood of those who have fallen victim to "God's Avengers." Kings, popes, military generals, and heads of state have killed, claiming God's authority and God's blessing. I do not believe in such a God."

Best of all: "Thou shall not kill."
Nicole

San Jose, CA

#85 Apr 29, 2012
Bill----- wrote:
<quoted text>
Other inmates, guards, escaped and murdered again.
Here are my notes on ONE of the executed.
NAME: VICKERS, ROBERT WAYNE
DATE OF EXEC.: 1999/05/05 NUMBER: 543
SPECIAL LIST: MURDERS IN PRISON (DEATH ROW)
DATE OF CRIME: 1978/10/04
NO. KILLED: 1 TOTAL KILLED: 2
CMTS#1: WILMER "BUSTER" HOLSINGER (55), burned to death, death row prisoner, set on fire w/ hair tonic, 82/03/04 1st 82/10/18 2nd 86/04/24 (DEATH)
--made comments about his 11y.o. niece
FRANK PONCIANO [WM21], cellmate for 2 weeks, didn't wake him for lunch, drank his Kool-aid, strangled, stabbed, & carved "Bonzai" on his back
--called officer to remove the body [D->N.T.O.](not retried in this case)
Okay it took me a minute to understand that... very specific. So I understand that people murder again, but I'm saying we CHANGE the current system so that can't happen. Are you basically saying that there's no compromising or negotiating, and that the death penalty is the only option? That's not meant to sound accusing or mean in anyway, I just want to clarify.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#86 Apr 29, 2012
Nicole wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay it took me a minute to understand that... very specific. So I understand that people murder again, but I'm saying we CHANGE the current system so that can't happen. Are you basically saying that there's no compromising or negotiating, and that the death penalty is the only option? That's not meant to sound accusing or mean in anyway, I just want to clarify.
Not really, there are a very small number of inmates who actually change for the better. For some life on death row is the best existence they have ever had and with the exception of a couple of states they are relatively "safe".

That is also very sad. Some manage to convince both them self and others that they are innocent -- they do not want to believe they did the horrible things they were convicted of doing. Then there are the very very few who are in fact innocent who got caught up in events and have gotten swept away.

If you watch carefully you will see that there are some web sites, individuals, and organizations that try to stop executions by claims that virtually every inmate is innocent -- that in fact take away from the true claims.

I saw the post about Sister Prejean before I stopped to answer yours and will only comment about her briefly. Her 1st book (Dead Man Walking) was very accurate and well written. Read it for some real insight into death row inmates). The movie based on the book was not even close to being accurate. Her 2nd book is full of errors and is not well written. I have an autographed copy of her 1st book but would not bother to get one of her second book.

Have a good week.
Nicole

San Jose, CA

#87 Apr 30, 2012
Bill----- wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really, there are a very small number of inmates who actually change for the better. For some life on death row is the best existence they have ever had and with the exception of a couple of states they are relatively "safe".
That is also very sad. Some manage to convince both them self and others that they are innocent -- they do not want to believe they did the horrible things they were convicted of doing. Then there are the very very few who are in fact innocent who got caught up in events and have gotten swept away.
If you watch carefully you will see that there are some web sites, individuals, and organizations that try to stop executions by claims that virtually every inmate is innocent -- that in fact take away from the true claims.
I saw the post about Sister Prejean before I stopped to answer yours and will only comment about her briefly. Her 1st book (Dead Man Walking) was very accurate and well written. Read it for some real insight into death row inmates). The movie based on the book was not even close to being accurate. Her 2nd book is full of errors and is not well written. I have an autographed copy of her 1st book but would not bother to get one of her second book.
Have a good week.
I'm not saying that they're going to change for the better and that we should put them back out into society and everything will be rainbows and unicorns. I just don't want to see them dead. Not only that, but there is the chance of executing an innocent person, because the system is human-run and humans make mistakes. Can you agree with that?
Justice Served

Carmel, ME

#88 Apr 30, 2012
Nicole wrote:
<quoted text>
That was very insightful. Who knew I could learn more on this website than I do in class... haha. So you said in a previous response that you used to be against the death penalty, I'm just wondering what changed your mind. If you don't mind sharing :)
I wan so much against the death penalty as I was against a flawed justice system that failed to get it right all the time. The movie To Kill A Mockingbird had something to do with it. But then even that notion the system made mistakes began to pale when the news media could bring murder, serial killers, rapists, and child molesters right into the living room on a daily basis. The world news was even more bothersome. The murder of 5,000 Kurds in Iraq and what went on in the former counrty of Yugoslovia made me very angry. And once again, I fell back to the position of wiping out evil with any means necessary.

And there is another thought I would like to share with you. If there is any religious group on this planet that should be against the death penalty, they would be Christians. Jesus was executed for crimes against the Temple, Rome, and God. But I remember what He said about His execution be why He was born. In our modern society Jesus would be the classic case of an innocent man being executed for crimes He didn't commit. I also remember what He said about the Father forsaking Him in the very hour He needed God the most. But Jesus knew God would not look upon sin face-to-face-it was now Jeses' burden to bear alone.

The resurrection took care of the matter from that point on. But my Savior, Defender, was executed-he was given two death sentances. But if those of us who commit these terrible acts of murder, rape, and crimes against humanity chose to repent before they are executed, well that is God's province-His territory in the forgiveness process.
Justice Served

Carmel, ME

#89 Apr 30, 2012
Ralph Spoilsport wrote:
<quoted text>I can't explain anything Paul wrote.
"Vengeance is mine, says the Lord, I will repay" (Rom. 12:19)
I like this from Sister Helen Prejean:
"I cannot believe in a God who metes out hurt for hurt, pain for pain, torture for torture. Nor do I believe that God invests human representatives with such power to torture and kill. The paths of history are stained with the blood of those who have fallen victim to "God's Avengers." Kings, popes, military generals, and heads of state have killed, claiming God's authority and God's blessing. I do not believe in such a God."
Best of all: "Thou shall not kill."
"Best of all...." is the murderer shalt not kill. It's a two way street. If this Commandment is to be obeyed by the potential victim, it should also apply to the murderer. And since it is a no-no in God's eyes, what do you suggest the punishment to be for violating a Commandment from God Almighty? And vengence has nothing to do with the death penalty-it has everything to do with a public lynching. Justice has everything to do with the death penalty-the victim deserves it.

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