Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#60160
Nov 23, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
It is usually evos that say creos don't want to talk science and all you evos appear to be doing is scurrying as far away from science as possible.
Every statement I have made I can support from your own researchers. If all you can do is say ' TOE is right because they said so, then I say, that 'they' have been wrong many many times before.eg human knucklewalking ancestry, junk dna, 2 turned to three domains of life, the death of single celled LUCA, brain size tied to bipedalism, Mendellian inheritance being the only form of inheritance refuted by HGT and epigentic inheritance etc.
I can support the scientific statements I make in previous posts and here.
The consortium has assigned some sort of function to roughly 80% of the genome, including more than 70,000 ‘promoter’ regions — the sites, just upstream of genes, where proteins bind to control gene expression — and nearly 400,000 ‘enhancer’ regions that regulate expression of distant genes
http://www.nature.com/news/encode-the-human-e ...
I have stated, in line with the thread topic, that evos have woffled on about junk dna being absolute proof of evolution. That claim is slowly turning to mud. Toe is made of these little balls of rot that are offered as support but are no more than flavour of the month.
A creationist prediction is, and has always been, that in time it will be found that all dna will be found to be functional. The same goes for vestigial organs.
This prediction is being validated as time goes on as any good prediction should. This is opposed to evolutionary theory that generally comprises flavour of the month.
So what say you evos about junk dna? What supports TOE? Some junk, no junk, all junk, how much junk?????? TOE is an anything goes theory with the hit and miss predictability of a crystal ball.
Toe is a philosophy of faith (No need for God) just like any other and is, just like any other faith, trying to find some support for its credibility. Theist evos just have their own slant and IDers are somewhere in the middle.
None of you can answer this above. You can woffle on, and say bla bla, but not one of you has had a word to say about the above.
I am not misrepresenting anything. I do not represent any particular form of creationism.
The thread topic is around junk dna. If you want to continue to go around in cirlces and make vague statements then this is what has been demonstrated.
On the whole evolutionists have not been able to speak to junk dna and its implications for creation or evolution.
Indeed there are no implications for TOE because it is virtually unfalsifiable as are all faiths.
However creationists are much better at making stable predictions.
So as far as the thread topic is concerned the Professor, whatever faith he is, has a good point.
Evolution theory has been around far longer than the idea of junk DNA.

You're right about one thing. Evolution is not provable. That is why it remains a theory. Modern science allows such things. We can't prove quantum theory either because we cannot observe nature at that level. We come up with reasonable methods for making assumptions but acknowledge the possibility that we may be wrong.

For the most part, revisions haven't been required and when they are required, they are usually minor. We simply don't have access to the physical world at the subatomic level and cannot control the chaos of those events. Show us how to observe and control those things, and there's something to talk about.

For now, religion is about as significant as thinking of ourselves as robots being manufactured and ridden by our midi-chlorean friends. Do we ask our cars where they want to go today? No. If I'm a glorified transformer robot, I think I'll just forgo attempts to pick my brains out through my nose, metaphysically speaking!
Gstspkr

United States

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#60162
Nov 23, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
HEY MAZ! I asked you AGES ago if you could provide us with the "scientific theory" of creationism. For some reason you still haven't been able to do that. I've been asking that question for about 7 years. The scientific community has been waiting about 3,000.
Still just GODDIDIT WITH MAGIC as usual?
Thought so.
The rocks that I stacked up when I was a kid, are still rocks. The caterpillars I caught never turned into a fish or a snake, but miraculously stayed moths or butterflies. Tadpoles didn't turn into Rihanna or earthworms, but miraculously remained frogs or toads. Most " irrefutable" evidence was fraudulent like the evolving moths, or pilt- down man or Lucy. And the the famous lightning in a mudhole proclamation forming amino acids. Do me a favor, and take apart your car piece by piece and scatter all over your back yard. After this, lets wager in 10 years, that those car pieces will evolve back into your Buick ready and running. And you think we believe in MAGIC ?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#60163
Nov 23, 2012
 
Gstspkr wrote:
Its a political philosophy, Marxism demands there be no other god than government.
If that's the case then how come half of Russia (for example) are Christian?

Marxism has nothing to do with theology at all whatsoever (not even a ickle tiny widdle bit). The opposite of Marxism is NOT theism, the opposite of Marxism is Capitalism.

So why is it that so many anti-Marxists oppose it without even bothering to learn anything about it?
Gstspkr wrote:
Evolution is political science as global warming is.
Why?

Why do you hate kittens?

:-(
Gstspkr wrote:
It's pushed and and used by those supporting elitist governmental control through the media and educational system. Notice how they fail to produce evidence, but instead, isolate individuals, polarize them with fake controversy, and destroy them with repeated lies. This is a reflection on society, how we rush to push our neighbors under the bus. Guess what. If we are not skeptical of everyone, and give someone a pass, they'll soon push us under the bus.
Sorry, you must be confusing evolution with creationism. There is no scientific controversy. Evolution is scientific. It has plenty of evidence. Creationists then manufacture a controversy where there is none and never really has been. They do so for political reasons. They claim evolution is unscientific then rather hypocritically offer magic as a "valid alternative". If you're interested at all in how science demonstrates evolution it is done so here:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

Evolution hasn't been under any serious doubt by the scientific community since Crick discovered DNA. The only genuine debates over evolution are over the specifics of HOW it occurred, not whether or not it DID occur. And this kind of thing is normal in any scientific field. On the other hand if you have an alternative explanation that does a better job of explaining the evidence then by all means, please do so. So I don't wanna hear about how the "mean old evilushunists" are "suppressing" the poor little innocent Christians from getting their ideas out to everyone. Oh, and don't forget there's nothing stopping them from doing their own scientific research. They even have their own labs...

Or shall we just skip the BS and just say that you don't believe in evolution cuz you think Goddidit with magic?

It would save us all a lot of time.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#60164
Nov 23, 2012
 
anonymous wrote:
You're right about one thing. Evolution is not provable. That is why it remains a theory. Modern science allows such things. We can't prove quantum theory either because we cannot observe nature at that level. We come up with reasonable methods for making assumptions but acknowledge the possibility that we may be wrong.
Indeed. In fact in science, "theory" is as high as it gets. NOTHING gets "proven". Theories do NOT get promoted to "laws" after a certain amount of evidence comes in. This is because all scientific concepts need to have the potential for falsification. Without which theories can't make valid testable scientific predictions.

Just a point about QM though, it IS scientifically testable, and so far it does so successfully. For more info on that area though, seek Polymath, our resident physicist around these parts.
Gstspkr

United States

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#60165
Nov 23, 2012
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution theory has been around far longer than the idea of junk DNA.
You're right about one thing. Evolution is not provable. That is why it remains a theory. Modern science allows such things. We can't prove quantum theory either because we cannot observe nature at that level. We come up with reasonable methods for making assumptions but acknowledge the possibility that we may be wrong.
For the most part, revisions haven't been required and when they are required, they are usually minor. We simply don't have access to the physical world at the subatomic level and cannot control the chaos of those events. Show us how to observe and control those things, and there's something to talk about.
For now, religion is about as significant as thinking of ourselves as robots being manufactured and ridden by our midi-chlorean friends. Do we ask our cars where they want to go today? No. If I'm a glorified transformer robot, I think I'll just forgo attempts to pick my brains out through my nose, metaphysically speaking!
But mysteriously, it arrived in the same time frame as Engels and Marx. Master confiscators, who proposed the rights of the working man and revolution only to seize power and ruthlessly, by force oppress any who opposed them including many revolutionary working men. They explicitly write of the need to abolish God in order to promote the worship of superiors to which they immediately promoted themselves. After all they couldn't allow the peasants assign any meaning to such vile biblical versus like "God is a respecter of no man", meaning we are all equally faulty, themselves included.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#60166
Nov 23, 2012
 
Gstspkr wrote:
The rocks that I stacked up when I was a kid, are still rocks. The caterpillars I caught never turned into a fish or a snake, but miraculously stayed moths or butterflies. Tadpoles didn't turn into Rihanna or earthworms, but miraculously remained frogs or toads.
So what you're saying is you've been around for a tiny fraction of the length of time of the Earth and you want to see total changes of biological DOMAINS?

Well done. You just told everyone you never had any science education at all.
Gstspkr wrote:
Most " irrefutable" evidence was fraudulent like the evolving moths, or pilt- down man or Lucy. And the the famous lightning in a mudhole proclamation forming amino acids. Do me a favor, and take apart your car piece by piece and scatter all over your back yard. After this, lets wager in 10 years, that those car pieces will evolve back into your Buick ready and running. And you think we believe in MAGIC ?
The theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis. This is not a problem.

Also those fake fossils you mentioned like Piltdown et al, according to you they are NOT fake. Because you REJECT the science involved that demonstrated them to be fake.

You don't know this because not only have you not had an education you decided to find out about science from a bunch of idiots stuck in Dark Age thinking who think everything happened by magic due to an invisible Jewish wizard.

And hey, maybe it did.(shrug)

But it used evolution.

Sorry if you don't like that.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#60167
Nov 23, 2012
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> To God be the glory.
Without God, there is no earth or universe( planets).
Still no evidence to support this assertion, and so far all evidence suggests the opposite to be true. Why do you lie for your god?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#60168
Nov 23, 2012
 
Gstspkr wrote:
<quoted text>
But mysteriously, it arrived in the same time frame as Engels and Marx. Master confiscators, who proposed the rights of the working man and revolution only to seize power and ruthlessly, by force oppress any who opposed them including many revolutionary working men. They explicitly write of the need to abolish God in order to promote the worship of superiors to which they immediately promoted themselves. After all they couldn't allow the peasants assign any meaning to such vile biblical versus like "God is a respecter of no man", meaning we are all equally faulty, themselves included.
Why do you hate humanity and your life?
Gstspkr

United States

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#60169
Nov 23, 2012
 
Maybe it programmed the organisms to be able to adjust within certain parameters. You seem to think that that if you jump off a cliff, you'll evolve wings before hit the bottom. Perhaps the Russian citizenry discovered the Christians weren't public enemy #1 like Marx, Lenin, and Stalin claimed. Maybe as they witnessed them being shipped off to the Gulag didn't make their own life any better. And maybe they saw something real instead of listening to a bunch of empty promises from their government, media, and professors.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#60170
Nov 23, 2012
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> To God be the glory.
Without God, there is no earth or universe( planets).
That's the motto of the Jesuits.

"Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam".

Are you sure you're not a Closet Catholic?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#60171
Nov 23, 2012
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith is not evidence. So you are claiming that there is no evidence for creationism. I agree.
Worst whuppin' I ever got, I think.

Religious Knowledge class - I raised my hand and asked a question.

"So, "Faith" is a firm belief that a thing is true, despite a lack of evidence?"

"Yes."

"Isn't that also the definition of "delusion"?"

I don't remember much after that.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#60172
Nov 23, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Aye, God is servant to its worshippers.
Apparently.
Why not?

They invented Him.

Or Her.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#60173
Nov 23, 2012
 
Gstspkr wrote:
Maybe it programmed the organisms to be able to adjust within certain parameters. You seem to think that that if you jump off a cliff, you'll evolve wings before hit the bottom. Perhaps the Russian citizenry discovered the Christians weren't public enemy #1 like Marx, Lenin, and Stalin claimed. Maybe as they witnessed them being shipped off to the Gulag didn't make their own life any better. And maybe they saw something real instead of listening to a bunch of empty promises from their government, media, and professors.
Sure you can debunk evolution if you use straw man arguments. Why don't you try to argue against what the theory of evolution actually says?

Earlier you lied and said there is no evidence for evolution. Well, perhaps you didn't lie. You might be a total gibbering idiot. Those are the only two possible cases. Now there is no scientific evidence that supports creation, you could have claimed that. Of course a group that is largely responsible for that is creationists themselves. The problem with scientific evidence is that it cuts both ways and creationists who know at least a smidgeon of science know that it would be too easy to debunk any hypothesis of creation. It would not ever get to the theory stage.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#60174
Nov 23, 2012
 
Gstspkr wrote:
Maybe it programmed the organisms to be able to adjust within certain parameters. You seem to think that that if you jump off a cliff, you'll evolve wings before hit the bottom. Perhaps the Russian citizenry discovered the Christians weren't public enemy #1 like Marx, Lenin, and Stalin claimed. Maybe as they witnessed them being shipped off to the Gulag didn't make their own life any better. And maybe they saw something real instead of listening to a bunch of empty promises from their government, media, and professors.
So you have never studied anything scientific at all. Your life is meaningless, no wonder why you hate all other lives.
Gstspkr

United States

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#60175
Nov 23, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you're saying is you've been around for a tiny fraction of the length of time of the Earth and you want to see total changes of biological DOMAINS?
Well done. You just told everyone you never had any science education at all.
<quoted text>
The theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis. This is not a problem.
Also those fake fossils you mentioned like Piltdown et al, according to you they are NOT fake. Because you REJECT the science involved that demonstrated them to be fake.
You don't know this because not only have you not had an education you decided to find out about science from a bunch of idiots stuck in Dark Age thinking who think everything happened by magic due to an invisible Jewish wizard.
And hey, maybe it did.(shrug)
But it used evolution.
Sorry if you don't like that.
Go for the gusto progressive!, PLUNDER! PISS IT AWAY! AND APPLAUD YOURSELF!. As the great Margaret Thatcher said, "Socialism is great until you run put of other people's money". After that you'll have to "evolve your ass off the free ride couch" and discover the basic science of economics. You applaud your education, but do you take more than you give Mr Progressive ? Who is it that you feel entitled to weigh down ? Does it make you feel important to try bring others down to your level ? Is it fair, progressive that they forgo going to the pub, and not buying your drinks ? Is it fair that they save and invest, while you've piss your time away ? Is it right that they recognize to need to grow, while you feel the need to confiscate their reputation, resources, and freedom ? It appears you missed your calling and time. You should have been born in the 17th century, as you fit the profile of a fine English slave trader

Since: Apr 11

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#60176
Nov 23, 2012
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>What does Isaac Newton's death have to do with anything? Why would my witnessing his death have any bearing on the topic?
Isaac Newton was a heretic who did not believe in the holy trinity. Somehow, he made it through life without being exposed but he probably was not happy with the confinement that the politics of his day forced on him. He spent a good part of his latter days researching religion and alchemy. He also is suspected to have had Asperger syndrome and may have developed Mercury poisoning through his alchemical pursuits.
That's something you can look up on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton
He was a Christian that is all.
He is unlike you guys that are liars and backbiters.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

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#60177
Nov 23, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, he usually comes back. And perhaps this time he'll have another Bigfoot carcass.
He might say he has.

Will anyone believe him, that’s is the question.
Gstspkr

United States

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#60178
Nov 23, 2012
 

Judged:

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure you can debunk evolution if you use straw man arguments. Why don't you try to argue against what the theory of evolution actually says?
Earlier you lied and said there is no evidence for evolution. Well, perhaps you didn't lie. You might be a total gibbering idiot. Those are the only two possible cases. Now there is no scientific evidence that supports creation, you could have claimed that. Of course a group that is largely responsible for that is creationists themselves. The problem with scientific evidence is that it cuts both ways and creationists who know at least a smidgeon of science know that it would be too easy to debunk any hypothesis of creation. It would not ever get to the theory stage.
Of course not, when the judge and jury are socialist , then I'm judged by their agenda which strangely doesn't acknowledge their past forgeries and "mistakes". Can you ever remember a textbook disclaiming one of their irrefutable findings ? If you don't smell rotten fish in Denmark, friend, you have a sinus infection. And a very large sinus indeed.
Portal

Chicago, IL

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#60179
Nov 23, 2012
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
All we ask for is some evidence for the existence of any god. It does not make sense to worship anything that there is no evidence of existing.
The makers are if fact manipulating and controlling all life on this planet.........they function in a dimension the primitive human animal will never and dosnt want to comprehend. The Bible story is nothing more than intelligent beings distorting the truth.....to fool the human animal. A brilliant disguise!

Since: Apr 11

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#60180
Nov 23, 2012
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Chuck IS a liar, but that's beside the point in this case. However Charles in this case too is being unreasonable. He made a claim with zero evidence. Scientifically speaking, the existence of spirits and demons cannot be ruled out. But without evidence they cannot be ruled in either.
So until he can provide objective testable scientific evidence to support his claim there is no reason to lend any credence to his claims.
<quoted text>
Unfortunately when one looks at the actual paper there is nothing about Quantum interference of large organic molecules to suggest the existence of the soul. Of course internet being what it is, and that even includes popular websites directed at Joe-Public, it is inevitable that complicated subjects like quantum physics is twisted by some wishful thinking crank who thinks it supports quantum woo. And this is precisely what you've got a case of right here.
Besides, even if it DID prove spirituality it's quite obvious it's proving the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
If you don't dream, others do dream, fall into trance, reveal the un-imaginables and prophesy, etc.

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