Va governor signs pre-abortion ultrasound bill

Mar 10, 2012 Full story: The Las Vegas Sun 28

Abdominal ultrasounds for women seeking abortions in Virginia will become mandatory under a bill signed into law Wednesday by the state's Republican governor, who had faced a national uproar when earlier versions of the measure had sought to make the exams medically invasive.

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Jorja

Raphine, VA

#1 Mar 10, 2012
"The abortion industry fears that a woman might see the unborn for what they are and make a different choice, which means less money in the industries coffers, and that is what opposition to this bill has always been about," said Victoria Cobb, the organization's president.

Can she honestly believe that statement to be true? If she does she has her head up her a$$ and hasn't been listening to a thing women are actually saying.

"Ultrasounds are vitally important to doctors when determining the health of an unborn baby," Perkins said. "Women considering whether to have an abortion should be just as informed as doctors about the child they are carrying."

I agree with this statement but it should be a decision made by the patient & the doctor not mandated by the government.

The law follows a wave of conservative legislation that had perennially failed in the General Assembly until Republicans gained control of both the state House and Senate in the 2011 elections.

Well, that says it all - guess I know what I need to do to stop this insanity.

“Beauty on four legs”

Since: Sep 06

Location hidden

#2 Mar 10, 2012
Jorja wrote:
"The abortion industry fears that a woman might see the unborn for what they are and make a different choice, which means less money in the industries coffers, and that is what opposition to this bill has always been about," said Victoria Cobb, the organization's president.
Can she honestly believe that statement to be true? If she does she has her head up her a$$ and hasn't been listening to a thing women are actually saying.
"Ultrasounds are vitally important to doctors when determining the health of an unborn baby," Perkins said. "Women considering whether to have an abortion should be just as informed as doctors about the child they are carrying."
I agree with this statement but it should be a decision made by the patient & the doctor not mandated by the government.
The law follows a wave of conservative legislation that had perennially failed in the General Assembly until Republicans gained control of both the state House and Senate in the 2011 elections.
Well, that says it all - guess I know what I need to do to stop this insanity.
Jorja, usually I agree with your posts. In this one, I disagree with Perkins' quote, since a pregnant woman is carrying a fetus, not a child. However, I emphatically agree that the doctor & patient need to determine if a US is necessary, not the state.
Jorja

Nellysford, VA

#3 Mar 11, 2012
pbfa wrote:
<quoted text>
Jorja, usually I agree with your posts. In this one, I disagree with Perkins' quote, since a pregnant woman is carrying a fetus, not a child. However, I emphatically agree that the doctor & patient need to determine if a US is necessary, not the state.
In general, you agree but you object to the word "child?" Thus opening up-when is a fetus a child(?) Is there a line-on this side of the line it is a fetus-on that side of the line it is a child?
The women I know who are pregnant use the word "baby" and "baby" is said at all levels of their pregnancy rarely if ever do they say fetus or child - but perhaps you are right the word "child" should probably not be used. "Child" is an inflamatory word used to make a certain point of view appear to be more valid.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#4 Mar 11, 2012
So while Conservatives scream that there's too much government in our lives, they proceed to force women to pay for a procedure they may not want? So I guess too much government is okay when Conservatives make the law. Besides, I guess we women can't be trusted to make informed decisions about our bodies. Men know so much more since they've been dealing with pregnancies since ...
Jorja

Eagle Rock, VA

#5 Mar 12, 2012
Hasn't our govenor crossed the line-separation of church & state?
http://www.adl.org/issue_religious_freedom/se...

The best way for citizens to protect their constitutional right to be free from religious coercion is to become educated, and to educate others, about the separation of church and state. Local officials need to understand that they may not use their authority, government funds or government property to promote religion, even if the majority in the community approves. School administrators and teachers need to understand that public schools should teach the ideals of American democracy, not religious pedagogy.
If you are concerned that a violation of the separation of church and state is taking place in your community, or if you have questions regarding the Establishment Clause, you may contact your local ADL Regional Office.
pbfa

United States

#6 Mar 12, 2012
Jorja wrote:
<quoted text>
In general, you agree but you object to the word "child?" Thus opening up-when is a fetus a child(?) Is there a line-on this side of the line it is a fetus-on that side of the line it is a child?
The women I know who are pregnant use the word "baby" and "baby" is said at all levels of their pregnancy rarely if ever do they say fetus or child - but perhaps you are right the word "child" should probably not be used. "Child" is an inflamatory word used to make a certain point of view appear to be more valid.
I do object to the hyper-emotionalism (in terms of the abortion discussion) of referring to the z/e/f as a child. Accuracy in terms is important. The use of child or baby is an attempt to manipulate emotion, not to clarify the issue. It is dishonest (again, in terms of the discussion). As to the line, it is birth, IMO.
I use baby for my BFF, a 30 yr old mother. Colloquial speech cannot be useful when an issue as important as the civil rights of women to be treated as full citizens are under attack.
Gov Vaginal Probe wanted to violate women's rights to access their personally chosen health care by shaming them. Thankfully, he succeeded only in part.
Jorja

Eagle Rock, VA

#7 Mar 13, 2012
pbfa wrote:
<quoted text>
I do object to the hyper-emotionalism (in terms of the abortion discussion) of referring to the z/e/f as a child. Accuracy in terms is important. The use of child or baby is an attempt to manipulate emotion, not to clarify the issue. It is dishonest (again, in terms of the discussion). As to the line, it is birth, IMO.
I use baby for my BFF, a 30 yr old mother. Colloquial speech cannot be useful when an issue as important as the civil rights of women to be treated as full citizens are under attack.
Gov Vaginal Probe wanted to violate women's rights to access their personally chosen health care by shaming them. Thankfully, he succeeded only in part.
You're right-in the future I will attempt to watch the words I use.

“Beauty on four legs”

Since: Sep 06

Location hidden

#8 Mar 13, 2012
Jorja wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right-in the future I will attempt to watch the words I use.
Just keep posting, j, you are thoughtful & smart & a real asset to these discussions! I so hope I wasn't rude - I refuse to let the PLM define the terms with their dishonest approach to the language. It demonstrates the general emotionalism, lack of critical thinking, and general vile dishonesty of their agenda, and I ain't playing their game.
Jorja

Eagle Rock, VA

#9 Mar 13, 2012
pbfa wrote:
<quoted text>
Just keep posting, j, you are thoughtful & smart & a real asset to these discussions! I so hope I wasn't rude - I refuse to let the PLM define the terms with their dishonest approach to the language. It demonstrates the general emotionalism, lack of critical thinking, and general vile dishonesty of their agenda, and I ain't playing their game.
Thanks-you as well.
No I did not find any of your comments to be rude-carry on!
I do hope this topic stays close to the top and is not forgotten -
especially on election day. I, for one, don't care how high gas prices go - the "D" is the way to go.
Jorja

Eagle Rock, VA

#10 Mar 13, 2012
jenny623 wrote:
So while Conservatives scream that there's too much government in our lives, they proceed to force women to pay for a procedure they may not want? So I guess too much government is okay when Conservatives make the law. Besides, I guess we women can't be trusted to make informed decisions about our bodies. Men know so much more since they've been dealing with pregnancies since ...
Well said. That is the part that irritates me so "Women aren't smart enough to do it themselves"
What's going to happen when a woman refuses the ultrasound? Will she be arrested? Will she be forced to have it?

“Beauty on four legs”

Since: Sep 06

Location hidden

#11 Mar 13, 2012
Jorja wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said. That is the part that irritates me so "Women aren't smart enough to do it themselves"
What's going to happen when a woman refuses the ultrasound? Will she be arrested? Will she be forced to have it?
Good question. It appears Gov Vaginal Probe will deny her access to her personally chosen, private health care, all in the name of informing the stupid, uninformed amoral woman that she is pregnant & going to get an abortion. It's not as if we are fully human or citizens with rights or free moral agents or anything like that. Daddy (& his simpering acolytes) knows best, after all, right?
No. Not so much.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#12 Mar 14, 2012
Seriously, it's like we have our own version of Shaira law with conservatives. Let's see,
1. don't pay for contraceptives.
2. Force her to have that child, even if raped or life endangered.
3. Force her to have a vaginal probe, even if she can't afford it
4. Force her the added costs of raising that child
5. Force on her the addes costs of the probe
6. Force her off Welfare too if she needs help. Our tax dollars shouldn't go to her bad decisions.
7. Make sure that little blue pill, Viagara, is covered. Men need that to think with...
Jorja

Raphine, VA

#14 Mar 14, 2012
pbfa wrote:
<quoted text>
Good question. It appears Gov Vaginal Probe will deny her access to her personally chosen, private health care, all in the name of informing the stupid, uninformed amoral woman that she is pregnant & going to get an abortion. It's not as if we are fully human or citizens with rights or free moral agents or anything like that. Daddy (& his simpering acolytes) knows best, after all, right?
No. Not so much.
Must tell you--when any part of my day isn't going as well as I would like it to-I just think " Gov. Vaginal Probe"- the day immediately gets better.
Ocean56

AOL

#15 Mar 15, 2012
jenny623 wrote:
Seriously, it's like we have our own version of Shaira law with conservatives. Let's see,
1. don't pay for contraceptives.
2. Force her to have that child, even if raped or life endangered.
3. Force her to have a vaginal probe, even if she can't afford it
4. Force her the added costs of raising that child
5. Force on her the addes costs of the probe
6. Force her off Welfare too if she needs help. Our tax dollars shouldn't go to her bad decisions.
7. Make sure that little blue pill, Viagara, is covered. Men need that to think with...
Excellent post, and spot on with your assessment.

Expect the anti-choice imbeciles here to DENY that fact, however. They don't like it when the facts of their anti-choice war on women are publicly exposed. They will slam you from all sides for putting it so bluntly...and ACCURATELY.
Jorja

Eagle Rock, VA

#16 Mar 15, 2012
jenny623 wrote:
Seriously, it's like we have our own version of Shaira law with conservatives. Let's see,
1. don't pay for contraceptives.
2. Force her to have that child, even if raped or life endangered.
3. Force her to have a vaginal probe, even if she can't afford it
4. Force her the added costs of raising that child
5. Force on her the addes costs of the probe
6. Force her off Welfare too if she needs help. Our tax dollars shouldn't go to her bad decisions.
7. Make sure that little blue pill, Viagara, is covered. Men need that to think with...
It is only just the beginning. You can find these stories on the web-this site will not allow me to post some things (?)
In birth control fight, Catholic bishops take hard stance on Viagra
Arizona out-crazies other contraception bills. Use birth control, get fired.
Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett:'Just close your eyes' and enjoy a mandatory ultrasound
UPDATED--Church Chastity Presentation Fails to Excite
Bishops hold meeting, decide they still hate women's health care
Thu Mar 15, 2012 at 04:10 PM PDT
Texas loses Medicaid funding in effort to spite Planned Parenthood
Jorja

Eagle Rock, VA

#17 Mar 15, 2012
I would like to know how they are going to enforce this law. Who is going to be checking women's personal medical records to make sure the unltrasound was done?
Privacy rights could be an big issue here. Do the doctors need to send a report & the ultrasound pic to ...whom?

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#18 Mar 15, 2012
Women have made these decisions for years. Why are men butting their noses where they don't belong now? Women have to make these difficult decisions because we get stuck with the consequences. You have to drag most men into court kicking and hollering to pay any child support. The child could be an absolute clone, a perfect duplicate screaming his father's features from head to toe and some will still say "I'm not the father". Meanwhile most insurance policies cover Viagara, gotta make sure that peepee stands up and salutes on attention.
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent post, and spot on with your assessment.
Expect the anti-choice imbeciles here to DENY that fact, however. They don't like it when the facts of their anti-choice war on women are publicly exposed. They will slam you from all sides for putting it so bluntly...and ACCURATELY.
JTM

Charlottesville, VA

#19 Mar 15, 2012
jenny623 wrote:
Seriously, it's like we have our own version of Shaira law with conservatives. Let's see,
1. don't pay for contraceptives.
2. Force her to have that child, even if raped or life endangered.
3. Force her to have a vaginal probe, even if she can't afford it
4. Force her the added costs of raising that child
5. Force on her the addes costs of the probe
6. Force her off Welfare too if she needs help. Our tax dollars shouldn't go to her bad decisions.
7. Make sure that little blue pill, Viagara, is covered. Men need that to think with...
I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but what the heck.

Sharia law? Really? You have no idea and to say so trivializes all the women who suffer under this type of regime.

I don't agree with the legislation, but don't you see the fallacy of arguing for abortion rights as a way to offset the cost of raising a child?(Your #4).

Also, as bad as the law is, there is no provision to force a woman to have the child if she has been raped or if her life is in danger.(Your #2).

Finally, where does it say that Viagra is a covered government benefit?(Your #7).

Statements like these are simply inflammatory and do not add any credence to your position. Instead, they put you out on the fringe like Rush Limbaugh. Calm down and get your facts straight.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#20 Mar 16, 2012
Viagara is covered, even Hannity defended the right for it to be covered, but blasted birth control. I find this to be an attack on women and I take this serious because of the hypocrisy. You may not like my comments, but I disagree with yours. Maybe you're not a female and no one is forcing anything on you. But we scream about too much goverment, then conservatives want to force women to have procedures they may not want or can afford. When the same treatment is given to men, then you can talk.
JTM wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but what the heck.
Sharia law? Really? You have no idea and to say so trivializes all the women who suffer under this type of regime.
I don't agree with the legislation, but don't you see the fallacy of arguing for abortion rights as a way to offset the cost of raising a child?(Your #4).
Also, as bad as the law is, there is no provision to force a woman to have the child if she has been raped or if her life is in danger.(Your #2).
Finally, where does it say that Viagra is a covered government benefit?(Your #7).
Statements like these are simply inflammatory and do not add any credence to your position. Instead, they put you out on the fringe like Rush Limbaugh. Calm down and get your facts straight.
Ocean56

AOL

#21 Mar 16, 2012
JTM wrote:
I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but what the heck.
Sharia law? Really? You have no idea and to say so trivializes all the women who suffer under this type of regime.
I disagree. For women to be FORCED to undergo an ultrasound before having an abortion, as well as the other points Jenny mentioned, IS a type of Sharia law, to me anyway.

And the repukelian "right" is making more laws that RESTRICT women's reproductive rights, which to me fits the same description.

The only reason that the original "transvaginal probe" which Gov. McDonnell proposed wasn't passed is because there was so much public outrage over it that he was forced to back down. This one isn't much better, and it's still an invasion of a woman's right to abort an unwanted pregnancy.

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