EPA imposes maximum cleanup for San J...

EPA imposes maximum cleanup for San Juan power plant

There are 19 comments on the The Navajo Times story from Sep 5, 2011, titled EPA imposes maximum cleanup for San Juan power plant. In it, The Navajo Times reports that:

5 that the San Juan Generating Station must install new pollution safeguards to cut nitrogen oxide pollution within five years.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Navajo Times.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#1 Sep 7, 2011
Government offers yet another kick in the teeth to industry, while they watch the jobs go away as they shut the plant down.

Brilliant! Will there be any unemployment benefits left for the displaced workers?

Better get your RV's purchased and fixed up, and a space picked out on public land, while you folks at the plant still have paychecks!

“Eat me. I'm a Danish.”

Since: Dec 10

Las Cruces, New Mexico

#2 Sep 7, 2011
They aren't closing the plant Cary. That is just your imagination running wild again. They imposed a fine.

The plant isn't closing. No displaced workers. No R.V.'s parked on some lot at Candy Kitchen Ranch. Just business as usual between our corrupt politicians and greedy big business.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#3 Sep 7, 2011
Sol Rebl wrote:
They aren't closing the plant Cary. That is just your imagination running wild again. They imposed a fine.
The plant isn't closing. No displaced workers. No R.V.'s parked on some lot at Candy Kitchen Ranch. Just business as usual between our corrupt politicians and greedy big business.
You don't know history any better than you know how business operates:

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#4 Sep 7, 2011
Sol Rebl wrote:
They aren't closing the plant Cary. That is just your imagination running wild again. They imposed a fine.
The plant isn't closing. No displaced workers. No R.V.'s parked on some lot at Candy Kitchen Ranch. Just business as usual between our corrupt politicians and greedy big business.
You think a $125,000 fine is the issue?
No.
It's the 3/4 of a billion in forced environmental over-regulation that may close the plant. It's happened before. It can happen again.
The United States government does not need to be forcing economic uncertainty upon the populace, particularly during the failure of President Obama's economic policies. But then I never have believed that Obama really cared about the economy. He only cares about his idealistic agenda.

“Eat me. I'm a Danish.”

Since: Dec 10

Las Cruces, New Mexico

#5 Sep 7, 2011
So you are trying to tell us all that this will force the closure of the Farmington power station?

Once again you are in some fantasy world. Ther eis not denying that environmental rules put pressure on business. But you are saying the plant will close and that is simply not the truth.

Once again we agree on the politics. But we disagree on your lies.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#6 Sep 7, 2011
Sol Rebl wrote:
So you are trying to tell us all that this will force the closure of the Farmington power station?
Once again you are in some fantasy world. Ther eis not denying that environmental rules put pressure on business. But you are saying the plant will close and that is simply not the truth.
Once again we agree on the politics. But we disagree on your lies.
And once again, you are willing to overlook potential consequences, and history, in your bid to appear "moderate".

Sorry, but you blew your moderation out of the water when to advocated forcible micro-chipping of illegals, along with other classes of society you don't care for. That was a hell of a time to grow a backbone!

The people of the United States need to take a stand: Either fire the people who are forcing the slow death of our industrial base, and elect pro-America/pro-business leaders, or accept that the United States is merely a shell of it's former self, and accept a lesser standard of living for ourselves, our children, and our grand-children.

This is no time for being spineless. It needs to be said, in no uncertain terms, that excessive governmental interference is what is destroying the U.S. economy.

The Mojave Generating Station didn't close overnight, either. It was rumored for years as pressures from radical environmentalism mounted. After 36 years of operation, it is now gone for good, along with over 300 jobs.

If you don't think that can happen here, then you are a short-sighted and naive.

“Eat me. I'm a Danish.”

Since: Dec 10

Las Cruces, New Mexico

#7 Sep 7, 2011
I am not arguing the potential impact Cary. I made that clear.

I am taking exception to your little fantasy. You remember...the one where San Juan generating plant is closing and all the workers are going to have to live in an R.V.

It isn't about your soap box nor your political stance Cary. Just about the lie you told. Thats all.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8 Sep 8, 2011
Sol Rebl wrote:
I am not arguing the potential impact Cary. I made that clear.
I am taking exception to your little fantasy. You remember...the one where San Juan generating plant is closing and all the workers are going to have to live in an R.V.
It isn't about your soap box nor your political stance Cary. Just about the lie you told. Thats all.
Of course you are arguing the potential impact. The fact is, it's no "fantasy". History IS on my side, and a partial closure is already in the works:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20...

You go right ahead and hide your head in the sand. If the plant closes, it won't affect you..you don't live nearby.

Smart people will prepare themselves for the times that are coming. No one thinks it can ever happen to them, but the signs are there. Our government is continuing to enact policies that are destroying jobs, while you want everyone to think all is well, apparently your personal beef with me is more important to you than common sense.

So what happens if folks get prepared and I DO turn out to be wrong? Gee, they're still prepared, and they can go on vacation.

President Obama, as a candidate, said he was going to work towards bankrupting the coal industry:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1174...

Radical environmentalists trumpet the loss of industry as a "success". Tell it to the people who can't find work:

http://d-a-barber.suite101.com/why-us-utiliti...

http://www.ibj.com/us-says-new-rules-would-cu...

http://reason.com/archives/2010/11/10/job-kil...

It's no surprise that Obama's EPA is acting on his campaign promise. In Obamaland, ideology trumps logic, agenda trumps jobs, and the people be damned.
Ueber Liberal Elite

United States

#10 Sep 9, 2011
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
You think a $125,000 fine is the issue?
No.
It's the 3/4 of a billion in forced environmental over-regulation that may close the plant. It's happened before. It can happen again.
The United States government does not need to be forcing economic uncertainty upon the populace, particularly during the failure of President Obama's economic policies. But then I never have believed that Obama really cared about the economy. He only cares about his idealistic agenda.
Umm, I read the news article twice and didn't see Obama's name anywhere. I did see your hero, GWB's name in the caption under the picture of the plant spewing toxic chemicals. I also saw Bill Richardson's name but he's gone.

Lets see, PNMs choices: 1. Pay millions to come into compliance, or 2. Contribute several thousand to an anti-environmental candidate for governor and hope she wins and returns the favor by assessing a chump change fine.

Since: Jun 08

Farmington NM

#11 Sep 9, 2011
I saw a commercial the other day touting "Clean Coal". Clean Coal is here today! Powering America!

So, where is clean coal?

“Eat me. I'm a Danish.”

Since: Dec 10

Las Cruces, New Mexico

#12 Sep 9, 2011
The whole issue is that the pollution control upgrades did not get the levels below the regs. So they are enforcing the law. Whether Cary agrees with the law or not.

The mercury levels are extremely high as well, and the San Juan plant is old and outdated. Coal fired plants are on theor way out for good. In many places they never had them. We should be generating locally with natural gas anyway. That is the future. And for the last 40 years that is exactly how we have been replacing the old style coal plants...Local natural gas turbines.

Central generation plants will never be viable int he future. Too much line loss, maintenance, and the overall cost to the consumer is actually higher over time than local generation.

When PNM gripes about the "environmentalists" it is nothing but an excuse to ask for even more taxpayer subsidies for R&D and renewables. Instead of investing in themselves and using company profits to build local generators they give the bigwigs million dollar salaries. Then they are at the roundhouse full time with a group of four lobbyists that are working money out of taxpayers like a milking machine.

Self sufficiency is the key. At least local interdependency on basic services. With the new Bloom fuel cell technology (and others)already powering large office buildings we are going to see a drastic change in the way we generate power.

The power companies business is up for grabs now. They are whining about growing old. It amounts to no more than that.
It is

Huntsville, AL

#13 Sep 9, 2011
ephotonic wrote:
So, where is clean coal?
deep within the bowels of the earth.

“Eat me. I'm a Danish.”

Since: Dec 10

Las Cruces, New Mexico

#14 Sep 9, 2011
It is wrote:
<quoted text>
deep within the bowels of the earth.
Now THAT was humorous!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#15 Sep 9, 2011
Ueber Liberal Elite wrote:
<quoted text>
Umm, I read the news article twice and didn't see Obama's name anywhere. I did see your hero, GWB's name in the caption under the picture of the plant spewing toxic chemicals. I also saw Bill Richardson's name but he's gone.
Lets see, PNMs choices: 1. Pay millions to come into compliance, or 2. Contribute several thousand to an anti-environmental candidate for governor and hope she wins and returns the favor by assessing a chump change fine.
Of course you didn't see Obama's name. The Ueber Liberal Elite Media have been in the tank for Obama all along. If the plant closes, it will be Bush's fault.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#16 Sep 9, 2011
Sol Rebl wrote:
The whole issue is that the pollution control upgrades did not get the levels below the regs. So they are enforcing the law. Whether Cary agrees with the law or not.
The mercury levels are extremely high as well, and the San Juan plant is old and outdated. Coal fired plants are on theor way out for good. In many places they never had them. We should be generating locally with natural gas anyway. That is the future. And for the last 40 years that is exactly how we have been replacing the old style coal plants...Local natural gas turbines.
Central generation plants will never be viable int he future. Too much line loss, maintenance, and the overall cost to the consumer is actually higher over time than local generation.
When PNM gripes about the "environmentalists" it is nothing but an excuse to ask for even more taxpayer subsidies for R&D and renewables. Instead of investing in themselves and using company profits to build local generators they give the bigwigs million dollar salaries. Then they are at the roundhouse full time with a group of four lobbyists that are working money out of taxpayers like a milking machine.
Self sufficiency is the key. At least local interdependency on basic services. With the new Bloom fuel cell technology (and others)already powering large office buildings we are going to see a drastic change in the way we generate power.
The power companies business is up for grabs now. They are whining about growing old. It amounts to no more than that.
Hmmm...seems to me you said earlier the plant wasn't closing.

But come to find out, you actually support it's closing. What a surprise!

Since: Jun 08

Farmington NM

#17 Sep 10, 2011
It is wrote:
<quoted text>
deep within the bowels of the earth.
Ha Ha Clean when not burned.

Since: Jun 08

Farmington NM

#18 Sep 10, 2011
Sol Rebl wrote:
The whole issue is that the pollution control upgrades did not get the levels below the regs. So they are enforcing the law. Whether Cary agrees with the law or not.
The mercury levels are extremely high as well, and the San Juan plant is old and outdated. Coal fired plants are on theor way out for good. In many places they never had them. We should be generating locally with natural gas anyway. That is the future. And for the last 40 years that is exactly how we have been replacing the old style coal plants...Local natural gas turbines.
Central generation plants will never be viable int he future. Too much line loss, maintenance, and the overall cost to the consumer is actually higher over time than local generation.
When PNM gripes about the "environmentalists" it is nothing but an excuse to ask for even more taxpayer subsidies for R&D and renewables. Instead of investing in themselves and using company profits to build local generators they give the bigwigs million dollar salaries. Then they are at the roundhouse full time with a group of four lobbyists that are working money out of taxpayers like a milking machine.
Self sufficiency is the key. At least local interdependency on basic services. With the new Bloom fuel cell technology (and others)already powering large office buildings we are going to see a drastic change in the way we generate power.
The power companies business is up for grabs now. They are whining about growing old. It amounts to no more than that.
Ok yeah but everybody is lobbying the government. For now, we are going to need coal while other technology ramps up.

Seems to me there is a simple solution: Have the government set the emissions bar and let PNM try their cheap solution. Then if they don't meet the standard then they have to install the catalytic system.

“Eat me. I'm a Danish.”

Since: Dec 10

Las Cruces, New Mexico

#19 Sep 10, 2011
ephotonic wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok yeah but everybody is lobbying the government. For now, we are going to need coal while other technology ramps up.
Seems to me there is a simple solution: Have the government set the emissions bar and let PNM try their cheap solution. Then if they don't meet the standard then they have to install the catalytic system.
That is exactly what happened. They did the modifications that were expected to meet the standards and they did not. So they gave them a tiome to fix it. And they didn't. So they fined them.

And the plant isn't closing. Not due to the fines nor due to anything else. It is simply slowly going obsolete. I don't support the plant closing at all. But I am smart enough to realize that it is not what we should be investing in for the future. If it is not a viable source of cheap energy and it pollutes too much then BYE BYE. We dont have time to try and save dinosaurs when the rest of the nation has already moved away from coal.

Since: Jun 08

Farmington NM

#20 Sep 10, 2011
Sol Rebl wrote:
<quoted text>
That is exactly what happened. They did the modifications that were expected to meet the standards and they did not. So they gave them a tiome to fix it. And they didn't. So they fined them.
And the plant isn't closing. Not due to the fines nor due to anything else. It is simply slowly going obsolete. I don't support the plant closing at all. But I am smart enough to realize that it is not what we should be investing in for the future. If it is not a viable source of cheap energy and it pollutes too much then BYE BYE. We dont have time to try and save dinosaurs when the rest of the nation has already moved away from coal.
I may have missed something somewhere. I thought the new catalytic converter technology was necessary for a new rule? To bring the NOx further down?

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